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Why Should I Get A Dt50 To Go With My Hd500 And Not Just A Standard Power Amp?


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#1 harw00d

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:24 AM

As title says really!

 

All input appreciated.


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#2 TheRealZap

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:38 PM

the DT50/DT25 is actually alot of amps in one.... it re-configures the power amp to match the model selected...

for example if you buy an AC30, and use that to play a JCM800 model... the power amp is still that of the AC30. the relays in the DT amps, will reconfigure the amp to match the REAL power amp (as in not its digitally modeled equivalent.

 

you can also set up the DT amps standalone to become those amps with the latest update.

it's a really well thought out integrated system...

thats not to say you couldn't get decent modeled tones out of other amps.... 

that's just explaining why the DT amps themselves are special.


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#3 jws1982

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:25 AM

I have a DT25 and a Spider Valve 2x12.  I can run my POD HD500 into the power-amp in of my Spider Valve, and it sounds really good.  It still sounds better through the DT25 though, especially on amps that have a class A power section.  It's just a better-quality amp.

 

If cost is a factor, then a used Spider Valve amp would still work well.  The mark I versions go for pretty cheap. I have a mark I 2x12, which i use as a backup should my DT25 fail. 


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#4 harw00d

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

If all the pod is doing is using both amps as a power amp, I still dont see why a valve power amp, or the FX return of any other valve head would be any different.

Granted the DT can model Class A,  but that is the only advantage I can see.


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#5 TheRealZap

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:28 PM

If all the pod is doing is using both amps as a power amp, I still dont see why a valve power amp, or the FX return of any other valve head would be any different.

Granted the DT can model Class A,  but that is the only advantage I can see.

 

that's where you aren't getting it... the DT isn't modeling ANYTHING power amp wise... it rewires itself internally via relays and other gadgetry to become the real deal....

sure you can put the fully modeled power amps through it....

but there is a reason why some amps cost a small fortune....because they don't all sound the same.

just like solid state doesn't sound like tube... etc etc...

you can surely get a good sound from a singular amp... but the DT gives you options...

far more options than real world...  because you can change the pentode/triode class A/AB to something besides what the original amp came with....

this allows you to find YOUR sound, as well as the classic sounds of the originals and the many players who used them....

 

it's sound though... noone can really tell you... you have to hear it....

the DT amps are awesome....

but it's not the only awesome... 

you can twist the knobs and come up with something useful using many power amps, and they'll be good at this or that...

the DT amp has the capability of being good at this AND that....


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#6 greghall

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:54 AM

If all the pod is doing is using both amps as a power amp, I still dont see why a valve power amp, or the FX return of any other valve head would be any different.

Granted the DT can model Class A,  but that is the only advantage I can see.

 

Another big advantage of using the DT amp is the integration with the HD (i.e. Line 6 Link), you can change the whole amp configuration with a single tap of the foot :-) 


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#7 wahwahferrar

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:15 PM

Really, for live use? Not much reason IMO. I like my DT50 head but normally use my Fender Hot Rod (pod to FX return). Sounds great. DT 50 doesn't sound better, just different, then different again if you change class a/ab etc. If I didn't use a pod, then I'd say differently. My DT-50 is great to use with just a guitar and maybe a boost/drive pedal.


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#8 kenaucre

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:29 PM

My HD500x came in the mail yesterday. My DT25 came 3 days ago. I was playing my DT for a couple days using my LP and the JTV 69 mag pickups through it. I was fairly impressed with the number of sounds that you could get from the amp with its variety of internals, but I didn't think it was particularly better than the fender twin I've been playing with. I had a chance to play several different HD500s through the twin, and it was VERY cool how many sounds you could get, and they sounded genuinely different from each other....

 

However....

 

When you add the HD500 to the DT amps... it's not just different, it's truly mindblowing. To confirm it, I plugged the HD500x into the Fender. The nuances of each classic amp weren't the same... they all had kind of a twin undertone to them and weren't as convincing. Granted, not a bad amp to have as an undertone, but I think the difference is certainly enough to justify having the DT. Add to that the fact that you can tweak EVERYTHING about the amp in a preset and instantly switch them, and it's like you've got a fleet of amps on a patch bay attached to your pedalboard.

 

Still brand spanky new on the Dream Rig, but it's the coolest upgrade I could have asked for to my setup. I'll still be playing the Les Paul for occasions when I need a good LP tone [VARIAX unfortunately doesn't have the same hour long sustain or response as a cranked LP, and I have a JTV69S so no built in HBs]. but the JTV 69 will handle such a wide range of other tones, that it is truly worth it. I love having crunchy humbucker, to bluesy single, to twangy rickenbacker, to Tele, to Martin all in my CUSTOM 1 bank [except the bluesy singles from the mag pickups.]

 

Now comes the process of making all my personal presets. But I suppose it's WAY better than tweaking everything every time you gig.

 

Buy the amp. You won't be disappointed.

 

~Ken


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#9 dlowe102

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:07 AM

I was on a forum on ultimate guitar trying to explain how the DT amp switches its power amp to 4 different analog configurations. Was called a liar and mis informed. It seems they think it works the same as a spidervalve using a single fixed power amp.


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#10 TheRealZap

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:35 AM

shame... a little knowledge can do wonders... 

 

I was on a forum on ultimate guitar trying to explain how the DT amp switches its power amp to 4 different analog configurations. Was called a liar and mis informed. It seems they think it works the same as a spidervalve using a single fixed power amp.


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#11 Tboneous

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

As title says really!
 
All input appreciated.

Let your ears do the listnin! When doing my research about the DT50, I took my guitar to the music store, asked for a room. I plugged my guitar through the HD and then through a Two Rock Jet, a Tech 21 power speaker, Blackstar Ht60, a DT 25 and a DT 50.. The HD sounded like crap through the Two Rock and the Blackstar. It sounded ok through the Tech 21. It sounded fantastic through the DT50/25. The DT 25 was a bit under powered for me. I walked with the DT 50. Without the HD plugged up, The Two Rock and the Blackstar did what they did very well. Better than the DT 50. But the DTHD combo didn't sound bad by any means. and it did a much better job with clean tones than either of them.

The level of control that the DT/HD combo gives me is can't be touched by just using some power amp. With one click of the button I can make one amp model on the HD sound vastly different just by tweaking how the power amp section performs. You can't do that anywhere else in the amp world when using an HD.
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#12 phil_m

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 08:18 AM

Misinformed on a guitar forum? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!

 

brick-lol.gif


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#13 stumblinman

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:40 AM

I was on a forum on ultimate guitar trying to explain how the DT amp switches its power amp to 4 different analog configurations. Was called a liar and mis informed. It seems they think it works the same as a spidervalve using a single fixed power amp.


Please post the link to this. I would love to read it.
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#14 Crusty_Old_Rocker

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:32 PM

The DT amps give you the ability to choose from the following power amp characteristics:

2 classes A/B and (quasi) class A - if you know how power amps work you'll know why I say "quasi" class A
4 different negative feedback loop topologies (tight, loose, zero or resonant)
2 different power amp valve operation modes (pentode or triode)

In the DT50 amps you also have:
2 options with the 12AX7 boost (boosts the power through the extra 12AX7 valve that's there to give some extra push into the power amp for some models)
2 options with the B+ voltage on the phase inverter (high/low)
2 different feedback capacitors X/Y giving a choice of a tighter or smoother NFL

So you have 2x4x2=16 different power amp characteristics with the DT25 and 2x4x2x2x2x2=128 different power amp characteristics with the DT50. And you can definitely hear the differences between those options.

This ability to mix and match different power amp configurations with 30 different preamps and 18 different cabinet options that can all be preprogrammed into a patch on the DT500 delivers an unbelievable amount of tonal diversity.

There's a lot more to in than just switching between class A and class A/B.  That's why you should get a DT50 to go with your HD500 and not just a standard power amp.  You'll have 128 different power amp configurations as opposed to 1.

Cheers,

Crusty


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#15 stumblinman

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:54 AM

The DT amps give you the ability to choose from the following power amp characteristics:

2 classes A/B and (quasi) class A - if you know how power amps work you'll know why I say "quasi" class A
4 different negative feedback loop topologies (tight, loose, zero or resonant)
2 different power amp valve operation modes (pentode or triode)

In the DT50 amps you also have:
2 options with the 12AX7 boost (boosts the power through the extra 12AX7 valve that's there to give some extra push into the power amp for some models)
2 options with the B+ voltage on the phase inverter (high/low)
2 different feedback capacitors X/Y giving a choice of a tighter or smoother NFL

So you have 2x4x2=16 different power amp characteristics with the DT25 and 2x4x2x2x2x2=128 different power amp characteristics with the DT50. And you can definitely hear the differences between those options.

This ability to mix and match different power amp configurations with 30 different preamps and 18 different cabinet options that can all be preprogrammed into a patch on the DT500 delivers an unbelievable amount of tonal diversity.

There's a lot more to in than just switching between class A and class A/B. That's why you should get a DT50 to go with your HD500 and not just a standard power amp. You'll have 128 different power amp configurations as opposed to 1.

Cheers,

Crusty


The boost option works on the DT25 as well, just for future reference.
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#16 TheRealZap

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:57 AM

I remember reading that... BUT i don't believe that the boost is done via a 12ax7 tube, I think the DT25 uses software...

 

If i recall correctly... (?)

 

The boost option works on the DT25 as well, just for future reference.


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#17 stumblinman

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:18 PM

I remember reading that... BUT i don't believe that the boost is done via a 12ax7 tube, I think the DT25 uses software...

If i recall correctly... (?)


That's no matter. I was merely referencing it for the mathematical equation listed above to assist in making the combinations possible more accurate.
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#18 Crusty_Old_Rocker

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:45 AM

The boost option works on the DT25 as well, just for future reference.

My apologies, I was focussing on the analogue characteristics of the power amp.

See: http://l6c.scdn.line...file_r15718.png

Cheers,

Crusty
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#19 Crusty_Old_Rocker

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:54 AM

The bottom line is, there are 127 reasons to get a DT50 rather than plug into a standard guitar amp.

Cheers,

Crusty
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#20 dlowe102

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:51 AM

Please post the link to this. I would love to read it.

 

here is the thread on ultimate guitar.

http://www.ultimate-...&highlight=dt25


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#21 stumblinman

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:41 AM

here is the thread on ultimate guitar.
http://www.ultimate-...&highlight=dt25


Wow, whether or not folks are right or wrong, that is a serious amount of venom being spewed. Glad I don't hang out there!
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#22 mrkphpps

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:52 PM

HI all

 

Tried a DT25 a couple of months ago.

 

Don't know whether it's better or worse than other amps out there, but the feel / responsiveness of HD500 plus DT25 had me sold.

 

I still can't stop grinning each time I get to play through them - and I can feel the difference between the Twin and AC30 models.

 

Give it a try, and let your ears make the decision.

 

Mark


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#23 Brandon

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:49 PM

I sold my DT50 for a Tech 21 Power Engine.  I'm happier with the Power Engine.  Much lighter.  Sounds just like the Line 6 gear through headphones.  Less time setting up patches and more time playing.  


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#24 aaronhenry58

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 10:54 PM

I was So excited to get my DT 50 2x12 combo to use with my POD HD 500x, but was quickly let down! First I Need to state that I am a lover of Line 6 gear, and have used just about every version since 2.0.

When I first heard of the DT series, I was hooked! I knew I needed one! So I was finally able to order! It came in the mail, and I was fired up, to say the least!

There was an instant ringing/rattling which I traced back to the  12 AX7's in the amp! Oh man was I bummed! It was even coming through my direct recording output on the amp. So I talked to musicians friend, and they told me they would ship me another, and the SAME THING! 

A little more searching led me to Tube Dampers, and forums about types of tubes I could use, but that stunk even more! I read Bogner  designed it to run on EH Tubes Only! So, I bought a Brand new set of EH tubes! The ringing got even worse!!!

I thought, and thought about what to do... So ...

My take on the DT series of amps sounds like a great Idea on paper, and I'm sure there are some good tones people can make to suite  their needs! 

I am a full-time musician, and I just couldn't trust that I wouldn't have had problems further down the road. I'm not made of money, and it also made some pretty weird pops, and noises! 

I use the 4 cable method and It sounds Way more natural coming through my new amp. Like I said I Love Line6 gear, and love all the options on the POD 500X! In fact it's my only effect pedal

In the end I got a Mesa Boogie Roadster head. 

Does anyone know if Line6 will be making another type of DT amp?


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#25 grandinq

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 01:42 AM


Does anyone know if Line6 will be making another type of DT amp?



For the sake of my GAS, I hope not. 😝 Whenever I get a new music catalog, my wife asks me sarcastically if there is a DT26 in it. Even though she knows it wouldn't be called that (as I patiently explained) that has become the metaphor for GAS for her.

[I think they would call it HD-DTX or something like that.]

Seriously though, sorry about your issues. This stuff is great when it works, and exceedingly frustrating when it doesn't.
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#26 TheRealZap

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:15 AM

they will certainly make other flagship amps in the future.

a bit surprised by your issue, especially since the 12ax7's are used very differently from typical amps....

had you considered a DT25 or pair of?


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#27 ColonelForbin

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 12:27 PM

Depends;

If you are looking for a specific amplifier pairing to go with the HD500; the DT is hard to beat!

If you are looking for an awesome amp regardless of use with the HD500; other options may have more to offer.

 

This presumes that you want to retain the 'guitar amp' vibe, vs the studio direct / full range option. 

I like that approach personally; just made it sound right to me when I was jamming with my band. I know people are able to get amazing full range tones and sounds which sit just fine with a band mix - it's just my ears, or limits therein... I like the DT because even though I get the 'feel' of the amp tone, the XLR out DI does a great job sending the signal to the recording, PA, mixer, etc. And if you run two or three of them, you get those signals isolated, which is difficult to do right using real mics..

 

Here's my take on this; DT25 has been awesome for me, paired with an HD500 and JTV59. That being said; it does certain things better than others. Limitations aside, makes for one heck of an awesome rig when you start to expand it a little, as in, get two or more DT amps.

 

I used just the HD500 for a few years, a year ago added a single DT25 combo. Used that, and was night and day better than what I had before! Then I added a second DT25 combo, and most recently added a used DT25 head and a pair of DT25 1x12 extension cabs.

 

I did a pretty extensive rig test with it all in the last couple weeks, lots of options. I bought the used DT25 head with the intent of my buddy that I jam in my band with to use for his stage rig, to be used with analog pedals front and in FX loop, no HD500. I made a couple variations on the stack concept; two cabs do stack together, but not perfectly - the bottom of the cab is wider / deeper than the top, so there is a slight overhang and you have to position the feet just right.

 

The 1x12 DT25 combo actually stacks on the 1x12 extension cab very well; the footprints work out perfectly. Though the 2x12 + head stack has some serious mojo! And volume. Sounded stellar with no extra FX, just straight to amp, as well as with a bunch of analog effects.

 

Now, on to the POD use. I already had the stack set up, so I put two amp stands to the left and right of it, and set up the two DT25 1x12 combos. I took the analog pedals out of the equations, L6Linked it all together. In the HD500, I set up the two combos to get the left and right, and the center head/stack to get the dry amp send.

 

Massive...Total overkill of course! But insanely awesome amounts of sound. I played around with dual amp models - which are quite easy to accomplish using the DT, since you are using ONLY the pre versions, which use less DSP. Where the DT shines, is then that amp model info sends data to the DT, so it emulates the corresponding power amp typology. Lots of configuration possibilities here; the DT amps will always sync the power settings to the two amp models, but with the mixer, you can pan the preamp signals around to center, or full stereo, or however you want.

 

One benefit that might be even less obvious than 'stereo' is wet / dry, which you can do with two DT's or even with one, using some clever patch programming. I was really liking the solid center tone being 'dry' with the wet FX dispersed to the left/right.

 

Keep your eyes out for used deals; I got that head for $500 and the cab for $180, both were used, but in near mint condition. 

 

One note; these amps are heavy!! Even the DT25 combo is no slouch for weight, and of the DT combos, it's the lowest weight of the bunch.

The DT50 1x12 is crazy heavy, and the DT50 2x12 is just back injury waiting to occur..


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#28 mribanezmetal

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 02:33 PM

Theres another benefit to owning a DT series amp that I think hasn't been covered or maybe I missed   :mellow:

 

Your able to mix and match HD preamps with different power amp configurations!! YAY!

 

So if you want an AC30 model with a 'resonant' topology instead of the default 'zero', you can. I find this part of tuning my sound very helpful. 

 

I guess you could replicate that feature with some clever EQ'ing on something else if you weren't running a DT amp but it wouldn't be the same because that topology 'assignment' is from a tube power amp and is very real.

 

I use DT Customiser with my iPhone ALL THE TIME to edit functions within my DT50 itself and I can't imagine why this feature hasn't been tapped into by more users. Such a unique and awesome tone shaping tool. You can't get that on any other AMP as far as I know.

 

 

My 2 cents anyway.


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#29 aaronhenry58

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 10:17 PM

they will certainly make other flagship amps in the future.

a bit surprised by your issue, especially since the 12ax7's are used very differently from typical amps....

had you considered a DT25 or pair of?

  

No, I hadn't. I figured I would just cut my losses there. I do however LOVE my POD HD 500x! I think the capability is Amazing! I use the 4 cable method and the Roadster! It's what worked for me. Tone is totally subjective. What works for me might not be what the next guy wants. There's nothing wrong with that. 

Take care!


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#30 FlyingsCool

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 02:15 PM

I'm somewhat upset, Musician's Friend/GC are out of stock on the DT50 1x12, which likely would have been my choice (killer deal at $650).

My main concern, besides my total lack of cash at the moment, though is the weight of the amp.  Wow.  I checked one out at GC and it was HEAVY.  For me, using an HD500 is all about LOSING the weight.  How heavy are the L2T's etc?


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#31 BigBob-Irwin

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 01:16 AM

Still have the DT25  head  Podhd500x  and JTV59 and have used it out at gigs as a dream rig but have since reverted to taking my Les Paul and a new amp I got a few weeks ago a Victory V30 I find a good Valve amp and Les Paul live with all its organic feel and ability to sustain notes is better for what I do. I think if I had known when I bought the Dream rig I would have gone with the L2T powered monitor simply for the fact that what you program in the pod through studio monitors at home would be pretty much what you would hear with a small adjustment through the L2T the DT25 takes a lot more work. It is a good amp and the Dream rig would be great for folk  doing a wide variety of styles I love the Pod and the variax  but they are for the studio and I am keeping them but will sell the DT25. I am trying to set up the pod with the 4 cable method but am struggling to get unity gain  I was intending to use only a booster for the front end of the amp and reverb, delay and tremolo through the loop but am not getting the same tone with no FX in compared with plugging the Guitar in direct into the amp I will play around with this and if it does not work I have a TC electronics mini Hof which sounds great so might get some more of there stuff and a mini Spark pedal for the front end and build a pedal board.


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#32 lilguitar

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 09:30 PM

Long time Line 6 user, have been using my HD500X both at home thru a mixer/monitors and in live situations thru the house. Just brought my setup into a local store to A/B compare my guitar with a PRS I was thinking about buying. Anyways, the guy had me plug into a Friedman Smallbox w/4x12 cab. Gain cranked on the second channel and the response from the guitar volume knob was amazing! Near 3 on the guitar volume and it was clean! 10....was very dirty and bitchin. I don't get that with the HD500X. I mean it gets lower in volume and it cleans up some, but the responsiveness and dynamics aren't anything close to what I was getting from the Friedman.

How will the DT25 compare? Being that the DT is taking over amp modeling....does this mean I'm going to get back some of the responsiveness and dynamics that I should be getting with my volume knob?
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#33 radatats

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:19 AM

How will the DT25 compare? Being that the DT is taking over amp modeling....does this mean I'm going to get back some of the responsiveness and dynamics that I should be getting with my volume knob?

 

No.  The modeling when using the DT with the POD is still being done in the POD and standalone is the same as the POD.  I have not been able to get the same level of responsiveness you are describing.  However, there are other ways to get there by linking the gain to an expression pedal or with my Variax, to the volume or tone knob.  Either way, the DT does add a level of flavor or character to the tone that is distinctly different to the FRFR tone, not necessarily better, but different.  Not sure it is worth the hassle of having to lug it around and reworking all your patches.

I am anticipating better responsiveness with the Helix.  It certainly sounds like it should in some of the demo vids I have heard.  I have also put a suggestion on IdeaScale for a Friedman amp and cab pack for the Helix and can only hope that one day it gets added!


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#34 stumblinman

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:19 AM

No. The modeling when using the DT with the POD is still being done in the POD and standalone is the same as the POD. I have not been able to get the same level of responsiveness you are describing. However, there are other ways to get there by linking the gain to an expression pedal or with my Variax, to the volume or tone knob. Either way, the DT does add a level of flavor or character to the tone that is distinctly different to the FRFR tone, not necessarily better, but different. Not sure it is worth the hassle of having to lug it around and reworking all your patches.

I am anticipating better responsiveness with the Helix. It certainly sounds like it should in some of the demo vids I have heard. I have also put a suggestion on IdeaScale for a Friedman amp and cab pack for the Helix and can only hope that one day it gets added!


Really? I get great responsiveness with the guitar volume knob into the amp. I guess it depends a lot of pickups, gain levels etc..
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#35 radatats

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:46 AM

Really? I get great responsiveness with the guitar volume knob into the amp. I guess it depends a lot of pickups, gain levels etc..

 

What I am saying is there is no discernible difference in responsiveness and dynamics between my POD full amp models and the preamp into the DT25.  Certainly some models are more responsive than others but simply adding a DT will not somehow make things more responsive.


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#36 stumblinman

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:15 AM

Ahh, I'm using mine without the HD500 anymore.
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#37 mtreehugger

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 09:34 AM

Ahh, I'm using mine without the HD500 anymore.

Have you tried using the HD500 for stomp boxes only?  You know, no amps, just distortion/compression/delay/etc.  That's one thing I've thought about if I were ever to pick up a Marshall or whatever, I'd probably go to just one pedal--my POD HD.  So then the true bypass question comes into play, right?

 

I doubt I'd do this though, because the kind of versatility and control I have via the HD can't be had with a conventional amp (except maybe one of those sick new H&Ks).


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#38 stumblinman

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 11:03 AM

Have you tried using the HD500 for stomp boxes only? You know, no amps, just distortion/compression/delay/etc. That's one thing I've thought about if I were ever to pick up a Marshall or whatever, I'd probably go to just one pedal--my POD HD. So then the true bypass question comes into play, right?

I doubt I'd do this though, because the kind of versatility and control I have via the HD can't be had with a conventional amp (except maybe one of those sick new H&Ks).

I've been using and HD500 and an X for going on 4 years now, and one used it about every possible way live, and after years of tweaking and comparing and trying different output modes/power amps/tube amps, I've come to realize I'm not happy with it. As soon as I got it off my pedalboard and went back to just using an amp and pedals, my tone was there. It is an incredibly versatile piece of gear, but it is a giant tone "black hole". Too many hours wasted tweaking instead of playing. My DT25 with DT edit gives me everything I need, and nothing I don't. I'm back to square one, and wiser for the trip around.

HD500 is great. DT25 is better. For me.

In response to what I actually quoted, to use it properly as just a pedalboard, you still have to use the lackluster FX loop on the Pod, which gets you right back into that vicious circle of tweaking levels. I just want my gear to work these days.
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#39 mtreehugger

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 05:59 AM

I've been using and HD500 and an X for going on 4 years now, and one used it about every possible way live, and after years of tweaking and comparing and trying different output modes/power amps/tube amps, I've come to realize I'm not happy with it. As soon as I got it off my pedalboard and went back to just using an amp and pedals, my tone was there. It is an incredibly versatile piece of gear, but it is a giant tone "black hole". Too many hours wasted tweaking instead of playing. My DT25 with DT edit gives me everything I need, and nothing I don't. I'm back to square one, and wiser for the trip around.

HD500 is great. DT25 is better. For me.

In response to what I actually quoted, to use it properly as just a pedalboard, you still have to use the lackluster FX loop on the Pod, which gets you right back into that vicious circle of tweaking levels. I just want my gear to work these days.

Why would you need the FX loop?  I'm thinking the chain would simply be guitar-POD-amp, but without true bypass the pod could suck some tone--IDK, I've never tried.  I suppose you could put the HD in your DT's FX loop... then there's the 4CM  (I've never tried either).

 

DT Edit--I still haven't tried that, cuz like you, I just wanna play.  So how does that work at a gig?  What gear do you bring?  Or do you just set ChA and ChB and then unplug DT edit (which leaves you with 2 channels/2 tones)?

 

Now that I think about it, though, aren't you basically getting the same thing with DT edit that you were getting through your pod?  As I understand it, the DT's preamp and the HD's are identical.  The only difference is that DT edit allows you to turn "boost" off and on--am I right or is that misinformation?  

 

I totally relate to that "tweaking black hole."  the HD500(x) has so much to play with, and it's so easy to get too much of whatever you're trying to get.  Brittle cleans, grungy crunch, fizzy sustain...  I went though all kinds of insane before they released HD 2.x firmware because I couldn't dial in what I wanted, and even after that it's still been an evolution.  But as soon as I got the DT50 it got a whole lot better!  So yeah, if I hadda pick one and didn't use any onboard FX, it's DT (plus DT edit, I;m sure) hands down!

 

As for the tweaking black hole, I think that's a rabbit hole most guitarists fight with one way or the other.  We're either constantly changing guitars, amps, pups, stomp boxes, etc., or we have modeling gear.  What I'm concluding after over 4 years with HD and 6 months with DT on top of decades of playing is that tone is like grass--it's always greener on the other side of the fence.  Playing too, I think.  Heck, one time I recorded a loop of leads that I thought was pure tripe--I was just farting around just so I could hear what it sounded like volume-wise outside my house.  When I came back in and heard it for like the 8th time I was like "wow, I AM pretty f-ing good!"  That's because I wasn't playing anymore: I now had the luxury of just listening.  We're our own worst critics, usually, and when it comes to tone we always want a bit more of this or a bit less of that while we're playing.  But for the people who hear us, musicians and otherwise, I'll bet they can't even tell the difference between tones that we get that we love and tones we hate.  Which I think explains why I always want to tweak my tone just a little more, yet my D-I-pod recordings sound f-ing spot-on tone-wise to me.

 

Well, that was quite the rant.  And it may not be your experience, but if 2 months from now I read that you've hooked your L6 link back up I wouldn't be a bit surprised.


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