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Looping L6 Link On L3t Speakers


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#1 telf

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:58 AM

i believe that two l3t speakers can be looped together via the l6 link thus enabling both mixer sections to be utilised , giving access to efectively a 4 channel mixer with all inputs coming out both speakers. can three (or more) l3t's be looped via the l6 link in the same way thus expanding the inputs. i play in a power trio where i would put my guitar and vocals into channel 1&2 on the first l3t and the bass & electronic drums into channel 1&2 on a second l3t this would be used as our FOH. a third l3t would be placed on its side to be used as a monitor. the l6 link would be connected as a loop across all three l3t's , just like the set-up for a duo as shown in the manual but utilising three l3t's.my question is would i now have access to 15 inputs (including those on the back panel) and with the dual mono switch selected  would i get the same audio from all three speakers? ie a full mono FOH & monitor system.i don't believe looping the l6 link in this way would lead to a feedback loop of audio as it is a digital network and 0's & 1's can't feedback LOL. if this system works as i envisage we would have a kick lollipop system without the need for any external mixers/processors and could use our backline gear as our personnel monitors. effectively this is the way we are currently set-up but it just takes a hell of a lot more gear & leads to do it. all help appreciated thanx  


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#2 ArneLine6

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:09 AM

Yes, you can do that. Please make sure that you wait a few seconds before connecting the third speaker.


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#3 telf

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:46 PM

i'll be selling all my pa gear and going all stage source speakers now. obviously there is a limit to how many speakers and subs you could loop via l6 link. (i think 9 of each) but that is way more than i would ever need and scaling up to that size would obviously be impractical with-out the stagescape mixer. i read in another post how some-one had two l3t's connected via l6 link and then as a third speaker connected a yamaha dxr10 from the line out (mix) of speaker 2.audio was coming from both l3t's but not from the dxr10.i would assume (but am unsure) that if he had looped the l6 link instead of using a single connection then the dxr10 would have recieved audio signal,conversely he could have connected the 3 speakers using the line outs on the back panel and that would have produced the desired result. i think people have to get their head around the fact that with the l6 link even though you are using audio cables you are sending a digital signal that can send audio in one direction but parameter information in both directions.most people seem to think of the l6 link as an audio line out which its not- its way more than that.i would also assume that in the above example any audio conected to any inputs of the second l3t would be heard from the dxr10 as the dxr10 was daisy chained from its line out connection but no audio from the first l3t would be heard as it was connected via the l6 link to the second l3t thus by-passing its mxer section and going straight to the power-amps.sorry for all the questions but i'm in australia and at the moment i cant find any stores with more than 1 speaker in stock to test my theories.the sales people have no practical experience with these speakers and seem to still think in the way of traditional powered speaker conectivity. line 6 have designed these speakers "out of the square" so if you think 'out of the square' the variety of potential use of these speakers is unbeliveable.

ps - i'm not from line6 trying to blow my own trumpet just a potential customer who hates lugging more gear than i have to. i'm always trying to find lighter , louder and simpler gear and for me these just might be the holy grail with the only possible improvement being a decrease in weight but over the years i've found that light-weight gear = light-weight sound.     thanx

pps - i just read it back b4 posting it and even i think i sound like a line6 exec.- perhaps they should give me a job??????????? 


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#4 ArneLine6

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

We do not recommend to loop more than three speakers. As long as the Line6 Link loop is closed all inputs from all StageSource speakers are coming out of all speakers. If an analog connection is introduced the loop is not closed anymore. You can add an analog connection to a mix out and get a signal to that analog speaker but you would not get the iputs from that speaker to the other speakers.


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#5 litesnsirens

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:39 AM

I was the one who had done that experiment.  I no long have the DXR10, I sold it to get another L2t.  When I had done the test I went from the L6 link out from the M20d to L6 link in of an L3t, then using L6 link connected a second L3t, then from the line out of the second L3t to the Yamaha DXR.  I tried both the mix and the through line outs from the second L3t I did not get sound either way.  Both L3t's had sound... nothing coming out of the Yamaha.  I never did try this experiment with while plugging into an input on one of the L3t's so it's not quite the same experiment, and I was just doing this test to try to help out.  I didn't try looping the L6 link from the second L3t back to the first, I was plugged into the M20d and that particular question was involving an M20d.  I don't know if it would be recommended to make such a connection while plugged into an M20d.

 

By the time I did any experiments to see about linking up 3 Stage source speakers (without an M20d) and getting the inputs to work I didn't have the Yamaha anymore but I could use all the inputs from all 3 speakers.  I had some of the speakers in stereo mode, but if you put them all in dual mono you will hear all inputs in all 3 speakers.


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#6 telf

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

am i correct in saying that when you go out of the l6 link from either the m20d mixer or another stagescape speaker that the digital audio signal is being fed straight to the power amp section of the next stagescape speaker in line. thus completely by-passing its mixer section which is why when a third speaker is connected via the line-out xlr no audio is heard as there is no audio "appearing" in the mixer section and thus no signal at the analogue line-out.if you think of it in the traditional sense of a pa set-up of mixer connected to power-amps and then to foh speakers you could connect a microphone direct to the power-amp and you would hear it out the foh but there wont be any signal in the mixer, but any inputs you connect to the mixer will be summed with the microphone at the power-amp stage thus now giving microphone + mixer inputs from foh. this is my understanding of how the stagescape speaker works and why unless you apply a signal to the inputs on the side or rear panels, or use the analogue line-out connectionson along the whole chain of m20d+stagescape speakers, no external speakers can be used. technically this may not be how they work but this is my layman's explanation. stagescape speakers are a mixer to power-amp then to speaker all chained together in the one convenient box and the l6 link is an input into that chain at the power-amp not an input into the mixer. [and i didn't even mention all the signal processing that also occurs in that chain which is the equivalent of the out-board rack on a traditional pa full of effects,limiters,feedback destroyers,crossovers etc. etc.]<br />i would assume from all this (but haven't tried it in practice yet) that when stagescape speakers are connected in a closed loop via the l6 link the the inputs on all the stagescape speakers can be used with the signal from all inputs being summed and heard from ALL speakers. any other speakers connected via the analogue line-outs will only be fed the signal from the analogue inputs of the speaker it's connected to. ie if theres nothing connected to the analogue inputs then theres nothing at the analogue out-puts - and the l6 link is an in/out digital signal. this is why stagescape speakers can be chained together in a closed l6 link with-out producing an audio induced feed-back loop.try connecting the output and inputs of a traditional pa speaker to each other in a closed loop , connect a microphone and get instant feedback ,blown speakers and fried amps.<br />i wish line6 would put out a comprehesive explanation of how the l6 link works as i'm sure it's a mystery to %99.9 of people and it can be utilised in ways i'm sure that even their own design team didn't envisage. i for one am going to use 2 x l3t as foh and an l2m as monitor (connected in a closed l6 loop) for my 3-piece power trio with guitar+1 vocal straight into one l3t and bass ,kick,snare into the other l3t.bass will be di into input on back panel , kick and snare into side panel. this will give me approx approximately 140db out FOH and 128db monitor...IF I REALLY CRANK IT HARD.i bet the brains trust at line6 never "envisaged" me doing that!!!!!!that will be our total pa and monitor---nothing else and no external mixer.<br />please note that as previously stated i have yet to try out this as in australia i'm having trouble finding 3 speakers in the one place. after exhaustive research and questions i believe it should work but i intend to try b4 i buy and so should you - dont take my word for it. if any-one has experience with these please let me know thanx...
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#7 litesnsirens

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

I'm not sure what the price differences are in Australia, but here in Canada it's only $90 difference between the t and the m versions.  The method of use that you are proposing should work perfectly for you.  The only thing I would suggest if you can is get either an L2t instead of the L2m or even another L3t for your 3rd speaker.  It just expands your options even more as far as inputs, which you may not need at the moment... but you never know when that extra flexibility might come in handy.

 

I realize it's a fairly heavy out-lay of cash all at once at at that marginal difference between the m and the t version... it's a no-brainer for me.  I have the M20d, an L3s two L3t's and 2 L2t's.  Even with the mixer I don't have a single m version.  My other guitar has his own L2t which he loves and our bass player just bought an L3t to use as his monitor.  That's why I suggested possibly a 3rd L3t, it's got a really huge sound for a monitor.  I considered going all L3t's for monitors as well but I wanted something smaller and lighter that I could take for just quick jams when I want to just run my vocals and guitar through it.  And there's also the consideration of what sort of vehicle you have to transport all the gear with.  I can get all my gear in my Mazda 3 sport, if I had 4 L3t's instead of 2 and 2 that wouldn't the case.

 

Just out of curiousity, In your power trio is the bass and guitars going to go through traditional back line amps and then into the speakers or through modelling stomps.


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#8 telf

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:29 AM

i run my guitar  ( a nylon string with a fishman prefix+t pick-up -i kid you not) into a digitech rp-500 and i use  all the effects distortion ,wah etc. on it.its then ran into ch 1 on a fishman soloamp and my vocals into ch 2. this will then be run into two inputs on an l3t. this allows me to adjust my guitar and vocal level to my own requirements on stage and by sending them separately to an l3t i can have a different mix thru FOH.our bass player has an 80's ibanez musician bass (same as sting used in the police) and a peavey bass he got used off e-bay for $300 which is an absolute killer. he's had bass players at gigs ask what the hell it is as its only branded on the neck-bolt plate and i can see them well up in tears when he tells them what it is and how much he paid for it.they literally break-down as they tell him it absolutely beats the sound of their $3000+ (insert any top name brand here) bass. he plays thru a roland cube 60 bass amp (i can hear you laughing) and straight from the di out of that we'll go into the aux in on the back panel. as far as drums go he uses a stomp box as a kick ,snare, hi-hat ,ride and splash - thats it,no toms-apart from that who cares about drummers anyway?????.

the third speaker we will use for monitor is purely so we can clearly hear what is coming out FOH and make adjustments as nesessary on the fly as we're roadies, sound engineer and muso all in one (sound familiar) our personal monitor of vocals/instruments is taken care of via our backline gear. this sounds like a crazy set-up of instruments , pa and even back-line but it works for us and we dont do covers we do "versions" ( think of un-plugged sessions that bands were doing a few years ago ,put it on steroids throw in the occasional punk beat and thats us)   we've found you don't have to be loud on stage and you can still pump it out FOH. i know a lot of bands don't put bass thru FOH at most bar type gigs as the onstage bass amp is usually cranking it loud enough,  but we've found by using smaller backline gear you dont overwhelm other members on-stage gear and you can rely on FOH for volume and that makes it much easier to mix when theres little sound bleeding off the stage which competes with the FOH.laugh if you must but other bands we play with are surprised at the sound we are able to produce with the gear we use but it's all quality you won't find any sub-par gear amongst us and we like it loud out FOH. we're older blokes in our 40's  and treating it all as a bit of a joke (saves a lot of aggrevation due to people you have to deal with in this industry!!!!) but fortunately for us people seem to get the "joke".

bottom line is i' ll only be carrying about 1/3 of the equipment that i currently have to and it should have more volume and i suspect better clarity. we currently use jbl prx  speakers and yamaha mixer and msr 400 speakers so no complaints there. in respect as to your comment about perhaps using an l2t, the price difference is about $150 in australia but thats not really an issue because as i said we're older blokes and don't rely on our music as a primary income - i'd rather buy once and buy right 'coz in my experience every up-grade is a money losing proposition. so your point is taken and i will get either an l2t or l3t. one of the great things about these stagesource speakers is their scalability as we play coffee shops , bars,surf-clubs and private functions  where sometimes all we need is our backline and sometimes we need a full pa but anything this system won't be capable of doing will probably be big enough and pay well enough for us to hire a pa and engineer. thanks


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#9 litesnsirens

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:36 AM

Hey, I'm not laughing at any of your methods ... I agree with all of your philosophies and methods.  In my band all members are in our 50's, we put all instruments direct into the PA no onstage amps at all, bass is direct into the M20d and drums are Roland e-drums.  We also don't need a real loud stage volume and like to get that balance of quiet enough to be comfortable and loud enough for us to get us into the groove.  We often find ourselves setting up a stage level then backing it off, then backing it off a little more.  As far as treating the whole thing as a joke... the name of our band is "Happy Pants" We're pretty sure with a name like that no one will think we take ourselve too seriously.  Also we are our own roadies sound engineers etc.  The beauty of this system is that it allows us to do this more easily and with greater success/results.

 

As far as going with an L2t or L3t for the monitor, my recommendation would be, if you want to have a smaller portable speaker that you can just carry around easily or quickly get an L2t so that you have at least one.  Otherwise get the L3t, the L2t sounds great don't get me wrong but the L3t is that much better and will give you a fuller richer sound on stage


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