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How Can M20d, Xd-v And G30 Systems Work Together Using Wifi ?


Best Answer sdevino , 24 June 2013 - 04:18 PM

Just to help those out there wondering similar things. 

 

  • All XD-V and Relay products to date use the same frequencies for channel 1-6 as well as channels 7-14.
  • The M20d is using standard WiFi and not Line 6 wireless, so its channel numbers are WiFi channels, not Line 6 channels.
  • It is best to set the M20d to 5.8GHz if you can when using Line 6 wireless mics or guitar gear
  • Line 6 channels are different than WiFi channels because the amount of space needed for a Line 6 channel is different than what a WiFi channel needs. So we tried to make it easy for most users by making Line 6 channels 1-8 the most compatible channels with most WiFi setups. 
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#1 pierrebriend

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:44 AM

I 'm the owner of M20d, XD-V and G30. For a while, i'm not able to connect ipad with M20d when I use XDV and G 30 wireless gear. I suppose that the channels 1 to 6 of G30 and other LINE6 equipment are compatible : for instance, I select channel 1 for M20d wifi, ch 2 for xdv and ch 3 for G30, it should work, no? It does not, no wifi with ipad
I add that I bought them new for less than one year(g30) aand less than 6 month the other. May be the problem is elsewhere, cause it appeared thatmy M20d has some bugs (recording, and long time star)t
I will very soon replace my wifi USB key by the recommand apple router, it could help, no?
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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:51 AM

Hello again, Pierre...

First of all, you are quite correct when you suppose that

 

...I will very soon replace my wifi USB key by the recommended Apple router, it could help, no?

 

Now regarding

 

...i'm not able to connect ipad with M20d when I use XD-V and G 30 wireless gear...

 

You will need to follow the following advice, (taken from this document http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-1957 that deals with selecting the best channels (from not only Line 6's RF1 scheme for your XD-V and Relay systems, but also from USB wireless WiFi Channels) when doing what you ask.

When reading it, just consider your combination of an M20d with its USB WiFi as being "my computer" or "laptop":

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wi-Fi Interference

Q: Why does my Wi-Fi slow down when I get my transmitter near my computer?
A:
Because Wi-Fi and Line 6 2.4GHz wireless products share the same frequency band-space. Some users may experience a slowing down or even interruption of their Wi-Fi capabilities when using microphone or instrument transmitters in close proximity to their computers or routers. This is an example of a near/far interference problem and it may be intensified because consumer grade Wi-Fi typically has limited RF dynamic range. Using more XD-V channels operating at the same time will create more competition to Wi-Fi than a single channel would.


If your Line 6 transmitter gets within 6 feet of your laptop you may witness this situation especially if your Wi-Fi access point is some distance away. Typically, simply moving your Line 6 transmitter farther away from your computer will remedy the situation.


Users of Line 6 twelve channel systems can switch their transmitters to the “low power” setting as this will mitigate the problem as well. If you are using the system outside the USA you can likely switch your Wi-Fi channels to 12, 13 or 14 depending on your location. The frequencies for these channels are outside the Line 6 2.4GHz frequencies.


Likewise, switching Wi-Fi to 802.11n in the 5GHz band will avoid Line 6 wireless frequencies and double your potential Wi-Fi throughput.


Suggested channels settings to avoid interfering with Wi-Fi

WiFi:1    Line 6: 1 &12
WiFi:6    Line 6: 2 & 6
WiFi:11  Line 6: 5, 8 & 9

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You will note that a Line 6 Monkey upgrade of your G30's firmware (via your XD-V75 receiver) may be required for it to have access to the later RF2 scheme that will allow better working "around" WiFi channels.

It is also worth noting that most Line 6 wireless systems with model numbers ending in a zero (such as 50, 70 and 90) may need similar upgrading of their firmware for access to that RF2 scheme of frequencies.


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#3 pierrebriend

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:12 AM

All those advices and references seems very pertinent to this issue. I will set the channels as described. Another Gig tomorow in my garden with 250 invited friends will be a good opportunity to test it.

Pierre
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#4 pierrebriend

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:02 PM

Spmething seems to me not logical, for instance the suggested set up :
Wifi 1 ( m20d). With G30 on channel 1 too, i.e. same no than wifi...) and for instance xdv on 12 with "low signal.
I have also understood that it is better to install the cdv receiver not too close to the m20d ( 10 feet) Iwill change my usual practice to install them on the same desk...
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#5 RonMarton

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

Something seems to me not logical, for instance the suggested set up :
Wifi 1 ( m20d). With G30 on channel 1 too, i.e. same no. as the wifi...) and for instance XD-V on 12 with "low signal"...

 

You are right, Pierre !

 

It doesn't seem logical that all "2.4 gigahertzniks" could not agree on a numbering scheme, but then again, the audio and communications industries have never been famous for their logic, consistency or standardisation.

 

(Just look at the numbers of connectors, wiring schemes and different levels that we find being used in only one brand of mobile phone.)

 

If we can ever be bothered (and I must confess that I can not) to research the 2.4GHz spectrum, we will find that the actual frequencies used for "frequency-hopping" inside a WiFi "Channel 1" are different from the four frequencies that Line 6 allocate as "Channel 1" in it's RF1 scheme for XD-V systems, with yet another pair of frequencies being utilised as "Channel 1" in Line 6's RF 2 scheme.

 

...I have also understood that it is better to install the XD-V receiver not too close to the M20d (10 feet). I will change my usual practice of installing them on the same desk...

 

That would seem to be a misunderstanding, Pierre.

 

The only thing we watch out for with receivers is that neighbouring metal parts (such as their own antennae) should be kept roughly a handspan away from any other receiving antennae that they might "shade" (or reflect into) by being too close.

 

So you can probably carry on rigging the way you have until now.

 

It is mainly nearby transmitters that can cause problems, as you will see from the "near/far" explanations in your manuals.


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#6 pierrebriend

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:06 PM

Thank you Ron  for the reply abnd especially to have underlined my misunderstanding about the installation of mixer and the LINE6 receiver. Hereunder a new "difficulty" scenario  application to your advice about LINE6 products.

Yesterday, a few hours before an important gig, I tried to open the m20d to check my set-ups. It opend after a while, but the tactile screen was not sensitive at all, after several unsuccesful ON/OFF, I took the decision to install the m20 in a different place, because during the first phase, the mixer was installed on the top of an L3t, the L3t on the floor....and miracle, the ssession was opend in a short time. Is it "normal" the interférences by tween M20d and L3t could pollute the software?????....I would add that in the first tests, the m20d was installed at the top of a l3t, thase one on the floor...

 

ps : I have ordered the Beyer Headset mic. Wait and see


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#7 sdevino

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:18 PM   Best Answer

Just to help those out there wondering similar things. 

 

  • All XD-V and Relay products to date use the same frequencies for channel 1-6 as well as channels 7-14.
  • The M20d is using standard WiFi and not Line 6 wireless, so its channel numbers are WiFi channels, not Line 6 channels.
  • It is best to set the M20d to 5.8GHz if you can when using Line 6 wireless mics or guitar gear
  • Line 6 channels are different than WiFi channels because the amount of space needed for a Line 6 channel is different than what a WiFi channel needs. So we tried to make it easy for most users by making Line 6 channels 1-8 the most compatible channels with most WiFi setups. 

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#8 RonMarton

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:15 PM

...Is it "normal" that interference between an M20d and an L3t could pollute the software?????....I would add that in the first tests, the M20d was installed on top of an L3t,  in the second one on the floor...

 

Huh ?

 

Doesn't seem the least bit "normal" to me, Pierre !  :(

 

Unless you are trying to work your M20d inside a hospital's MRI or CAT scanner that is actually scanning, :blink: I would think that the environment should have no effect on an M20d's boot-up, being essentially similar to starting your laptop.

 

The only thing that springs to my mind is the possibility of the system being "bamboozled" during that start-up by the presence of "weird" or corrupt data at one of its "ports".

 

I would be looking for something "strange" coming from an inserted SD card, or from something connected via USB.

 

For that to happen, either (or both) of those would need to be inserted during the actual powering-up process.

 

On another note...

  • It is best to set the M20d to 5.8GHz if you can when using Line 6 wireless mics or guitar gear

 

Sage advice (as ever) from Mr Devino...

 

For any who may not already be aware of it, I'd just like to add that WiFi's later 5.8GHz spectrum also improves it's own speed and robustness.

 

Well worth pursuing...


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#9 pierrebriend

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:12 PM

To be more precise in the scenario, and probably going into your analysts, I would add the following informations : when I moved the m20d from the top of the L3t to the desk nearby, I ALSO unpluggeg the SDcard AND the USB wifi key. Then I cannot say wich one of the modifiction solved the issue..but I believe your are right saying that magnetic or electrical interference between L3 and M20 should be to low to be the source of the trouble.
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#10 RonMarton

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 09:50 PM

I'm fully expecting Line 6 firmware upgrades that will resolve these sorts of "prototype" issues, Pierre...

...But I think that, for now, it may be best to first look for stable operation when re-starting an M20d system before enabling WiFi networking, inserting SD cards, and/or attaching USB peripherals.

As another example of what I believe to be such a "prototype problem", maybe the "last recording folder remaining active" anomaly that litensirens describes in this recent post http://line6.com/sup...-not/#entry6419 could be eliminated by means of a "reset routine" being added to the M20d's firmware-controlled shutdown sequence?
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#11 dmbr

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:47 AM

Just to add to this topic - can you confirm that the G30 system operates outside the 694 - 820MHz bandwidth as this has been banned for use after 2013 in Australia.
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#12 RonMarton

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:34 AM

...can you confirm that the G30 system operates outside the 694 - 820MHz bandwidth...

 

Yes.


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