riko77 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hi, I've been dipping my toes into the DT range over the past couple of weeks. I started out with a DT25 112 which I thought was a lovely little amp. Tried it out at a gig and while the volume was more than adequate, it felt to me that at stage volume the clean tones (Topo 1) lacked just a little, uh... for lack of a better word: "substance". My first thought was that maybe the DT25 didn't have enough head room, but I'm wondering if maybe the 1x12 was a factor (eg: not pushing enough air). I tried out a series of DT50 212 combo's, both were defective (one blew smoke, the other had no volume at all in Topo 1). Rather than risk picking up a third specimen from the same production batch, I'm wondering if should try my hand with a DT head. Given my experience with the 1x12 combo, do you think a DT25 head into a 2x12 cab would be any better than the DT25 112 in terms of Topo 1 clean tone? Or should I order the DT50? These aren't in stock, so I can't try them myself. I have a 50w/8ohm Traynor cab with greenbacks. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Will a 2x12 have more "substance" than 1x12? I'm not sure anyone can answer that for you but you. Hard to define what "Substance" is? I have a the DT25 combo with POD and never found it missing anything really. I do run into my PA to make the guitar sound bigger but I would do that even if I wasn't using a digital system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radatats Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 you really haven't given us much to go on here. Were you using the DT standalone or with a POD HD? Just because topo 1 was not so loud means nothing by itself. When using the DT standalone the topology switch actually pulls up different amp/cab/mic combinations. There is no way to be certain what amp cab model was in your buddy's DT. It was probably a Blackface but you can choose what amp and cab you want in each of the 4 topo slots for each channel. Maybe you would like the clean Hiway or AC30 models better. Bottom line, there is no certainty that a DT25HD with your cab is going to give you what you want without work on your part. Get a USB midi cable and use DT Edit software to configure the DT the way you want it. Or better yet use the HD500 to really take full advantage of all its capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone55 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 We're really dealing with an unknown here. You're using your own speaker cabinet, not the Line 6 cabinet and the speaker that comes with it. No way to tell what the differences are sonically between the two. Did you disconnect the DT50 from the speaker input and then plug your DT25 head in it's place? That way you don't have to turn the DT50 on and can use it as a cabinet only. If your Traynor is old, the speaker cone may need to be relined. Take a look at it. If you touch the liner and it comes off on your finger, it may your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riko77 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Will a 2x12 have more "substance" than 1x12? I'm not sure anyone can answer that for you but you. Hard to define what "Substance" is? I have a the DT25 combo with POD and never found it missing anything really. I do run into my PA to make the guitar sound bigger but I would do that even if I wasn't using a digital system. Basically, it was "loud enough" but my feeling was that the sound wasn't as "full" at stage volume as it was at lower volumes. My first impression was there wasn't enough headroom to drive the clean tone I was looking for. My question is basically what would a second speaker do for a clean tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riko77 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 you really haven't given us much to go on here. Were you using the DT standalone or with a POD HD? Just because topo 1 was not so loud means nothing by itself. When using the DT standalone the topology switch actually pulls up different amp/cab/mic combinations. There is no way to be certain what amp cab model was in your buddy's DT. It was probably a Blackface but you can choose what amp and cab you want in each of the 4 topo slots for each channel. Maybe you would like the clean Hiway or AC30 models better. Bottom line, there is no certainty that a DT25HD with your cab is going to give you what you want without work on your part. Get a USB midi cable and use DT Edit software to configure the DT the way you want it. Or better yet use the HD500 to really take full advantage of all its capabilities. Sorry, that's a good point... too many variables. I was using a POD HD 500x on a Blackface PRE amp model, with a Fender Strat. I'd just have to buy it to try it, the store doesn't rent them. Unless I take my rig into the store to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riko77 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 We're really dealing with an unknown here. You're using your own speaker cabinet, not the Line 6 cabinet and the speaker that comes with it. No way to tell what the differences are sonically between the two. Did you disconnect the DT50 from the speaker input and then plug your DT25 head in it's place? That way you don't have to turn the DT50 on and can use it as a cabinet only. If your Traynor is old, the speaker cone may need to be relined. Take a look at it. If you touch the liner and it comes off on your finger, it may your problem. The Traynor is a new cab. I actually didn't have it with me when I had possession of the DT25 which was the 1x12 combo model. I guess I can refine my question to be: what would adding a second speaker to the DT25 do for the sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 One option would be to buy the closed back 1x12 extension cab to go with the DT 1x12 combo; mini-stack! Or if you are using an HD500 with it, get another DT25 112 and run dual amp models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geppert Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The Colonel is right on the money. I run an HD500 and a DT25 head with 2 x D112 extension cabs (1 x 12" ea with beam blockers), this works killer (technical term) for me. I would love to have another head for stereo efx and dual amp models ..... someday I think it will happen. Adding a D112 Cab to your DT25 combo might be a good ticket for you? These DT's are good amps but it takes some "tweeking" get their magic out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palico Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Basically, it was "loud enough" but my feeling was that the sound wasn't as "full" at stage volume as it was at lower volumes. My first impression was there wasn't enough headroom to drive the clean tone I was looking for. My question is basically what would a second speaker do for a clean tone? Well more speakers will indeed make it sound "bigger" but you do have good point about headroom. If you use the Fender Twin model instead you should get more clean headroom type of sound. The Blackface tends to break up in the drive ranges a bit which the models the reaction of Fender Blackface turn up. The Fender twin drive almost acts like a second volume know. Topo 1 does tend be quiter than the others. I run mine rig into a PA a good bit of the time because I like to make the sound a bit bigger without making louder. That works with any PA but more speakers will spread the sound out. As much as these system attempt to model say a 4x12 cab and comes close, it's hard for system to minic live 4 actual 12s. One thing you might try which I use a good bit is use the a Fender pre amp but use a 4x12 cab model, which is basiclly modelling the Fender Showman setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Geppert- yeah, I am looking into adding a second DT to get the dual amp / stereo thing going. Most likely would go with another 112 combo, but entertaining the idea of adding a head and cab, to fill out the tonal spectrum with the pair of one closed back cab and one open back combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geppert Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Colonel, I've never been one for open back cabs (i.e.: combos) and I like to split the weight up with a head and cab. However that being said, (and given the resources to do it), two DT25 combos with two 12" extension cabs (one for each combo) would likely sound quite awesome. Also, stacking the two cabs (in my case) really looks nice and it puts the head up at shoulder height .... oops ... another reason I don't like the combo since having it at shoulder height means you can't see the dials on top of the amp (lol). Yes a moot point if you have a pod I know, I but I still like to turn to the amp to make quick tone tweaks (old habit) so having the head on top of two cabs works perfect for me. I'd love to have a duplicate of that rig for stereo etc., but then "how much gear do I want to haul around" ... lol ... I'd need a roadie. Another head for me would put things back to one cab per amp but I think (for my needs) it would work nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russgoos Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hi riko77, I've tried the DT25 head through my Mesa 4x12 with v30's and it sounds very good - big, full, plenty loud, it moves air. However, I decided to go with a full stereo DT25 combo stack rig instead and I'm blown away. "Combo stack" meaning the DT25 1x12 combo amp (open back) on top of the DT25 1x12 extension cab (close back, ported front). I wanted to weigh in on this topic because I did an experiment while I still had the DT25 head (sold it after this experiment). I ran my HD500X via L6 link into the head and into the combo stack - identical signal being fed to each amp. I thought the head & 4x12 would sound bigger, fuller, deeper... but to my surprise the combo stack sounded noticeably better in every way - sounded more open AND fuller AND punchier at the same time. The combo stack packs a nice beefy grunt too for heavy sounds if you might need that. I was shocked that the combo stack sounded better and now run two combo stacks. I sold the head (which was great sounding too) and will be listing the Mesa 4x12 this weekend. I've had that Mesa cab for about 17 years and have always loved it - until I compared it directly to the combo stack. So surprised! There's something awesome about the sound of the open back combo with the closed back 1x12, IMO. Not sure how or why, it just plain works and sounds killer for every kind of tone I try. Sparkly clean to AC-30ish to Uber and everything in between now sounds awesome! I've settled in with my newly completed rig and couldn't be happier. Guitar (regular or Variax) -> HD500X -> L6 - DT25 combo stack #1 -> L6 - DT25 combo stack #2. Picture attached - the big cab will be gone soon. Never been a Line 6 fan until this DT/POD HD series and now I'm hooked. Guess I drank the Line 6 Kool Aid, haha, it's tasty! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geppert Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Russgoos ..... yes that twin stacked rig looks awesome. You've git the best of Line 6 there. Thanks for letting us know about your results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russgoos Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 No problem geppert. It seemed that my experiment was relevant to this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelForbin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Wow! The stereo dual combo stack looks awesome!!! I bet that rig sounds stellar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russgoos Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Wow! The stereo dual combo stack looks awesome!!! I bet that rig sounds stellar Yep, it sounds amazing - my guitar playing is still only so-so unfortunately - but it sure is a blast to play through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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