Any future plans for custom IRs?

[zkkzkk32312]

I am glad to see that Line6 are still working on the POD HD products with the upcoming updates.

I guess the only thing missing right now is the freedom of using custom IRs.

I know all the HDs has a limited amount of storage,

but since we are getting new AMP models that means this shouldn't be too much of a problem i hope?

Still looking forward to where all the POD HD is heading in the near future though.

 

Any thoughts on this anyone?

[TheRealZap]

Not happening.

[spaceatl]

If I needed more cabinet/mic models in my rig, I would probably go with this:

 

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Two-Notes-Audio-Engineering-Torpedo-Live-Digital-Loadbox--Speaker-Simulator-110000577-i2968794.gc?country=us&currency=usd&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=Cj0KEQiA6ounBRCq0LKBjKGgysEBEiQAZmpvA7XmQCYqGVIPJ5VdyyK7zFapil-RUW3hmuxpi8JXFi8aApZK8P8HAQ&kwid=productads-plaid^81966816764-sku^110000577@ADL4GC-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^44639487282

[phil_m]

Not happening.

 

[NucleusX]

:lol:

[Tboneous]

Definition of IR (Impulse Response) In signal processing, the impulse response, or impulse response function (IRF), of a dynamic system is its output when presented with a brief input signal, called an impulse. More generally, an impulse response refers to the reaction of any dynamic system in response to some external change. In both cases, the impulse response describes the reaction of the system as a function of time (or possibly as a function of some other independent variable that parameterizes the dynamic behavior of the system).

 

I see people post about new IR's and I have no earthly idea of what these people mean given the definition of Impulse Response. And now we are talking about custom IR's. What the hell is custom IR's? This whole system is customizable IR. As soon as you pluck a string on your guitar (impulse) and a sound comes out of your amp (response) everything in between is customizable.

 

What am I missing here?

I feel so inadequate....

[zkkzkk32312]

Sorry about the confusion,

bad choice of words i guess.

I was talking about the ability to load non-factory IRs into these totally capable POD HDs.

 

 

Definition of IR (Impulse Response) In signal processing, the impulse response, or impulse response function (IRF), of a dynamic system is its output when presented with a brief input signal, called an impulse. More generally, an impulse response refers to the reaction of any dynamic system in response to some external change. In both cases, the impulse response describes the reaction of the system as a function of time (or possibly as a function of some other independent variable that parameterizes the dynamic behavior of the system).

I see people post about new IR's and I have no earthly idea of what these people mean given the definition of Impulse Response. And now we are talking about custom IR's. What the hell is custom IR's? This whole system is customizable IR. As soon as you pluck a string on your guitar (impulse) and a sound comes out of your amp (response) everything in between is customizable.

What am I missing here?
I feel so inadequate....

[zkkzkk32312]

But hey there's no wrong being a dreamer mate.

 

Especially with the new firmware updates and the new Amp models coming,

If we can get the freedom of loading third party IRs,

POD HD can really be a lot more competitive in this blooming market. (If the logic is correct, this means more revenue)

 

 

 

[NucleusX]

Your not exactly stuck, you can bypass cabs on the POD and send it through a variety of other external cab options, at-least we have that.

[radatats]

they have made it abundantly clear that its not possible to use third party IR's in the POD and they aren't working on it either.  If you absolutely need them you can use the Two Notes Torpedo linked above for $995 or the Epsi Logidy C.00 for $199.  Those are your only real options for live use.  Studio of course is an easier story...

 

http://www.logidy.com/?pid=1

[Tboneous]

Sorry about the confusion,

bad choice of words i guess.

I was talking about the ability to load non-factory IRs into these totally capable POD HDs.

I don't know if it's a bad choice of words. Everyone here seems to know what you are talking about except me. What is a 3rd party IR? How do you load a reaction to an impulse?

[radatats]

software cab sims use an impulse response which is a digital filter applied to the signal to replicate a cabinet.  Other companies sell their own highly detailed IR's that some people feel do a better job than the Line 6 ones.  But there is no way to load them in the POD.

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Working_Guitarist_All_About_Impulse_Responses

[zkkzkk32312]

I don't know if it's a bad choice of words. Everyone here seems to know what you are talking about except me. What is a 3rd party IR? How do you load a reaction to an impulse?

 

I am not exactly sure what you mean.

To be clear I never said anything like "load a reaction to an impulse".

that makes no sense to me.

 

Like you said, an impulse responses in this context is basically the very last component in your signal chain, the "Guitar Cab's characteristic captured with a microphone".

In practice, these IR's are basically very short .WAV files that are just like any files on your computer.

In any modern DAW you can quickly go through lots of IRs (.WAV file) in your guitar signal chain simply by loading and swapping them in any IR loaders.

All for finding the sound that you desire.

 

POD HD works the same way,

it has a signal chain, from pedals, preamp, poweramp to cab+mics, and from my understanding,

all the CAB-MIC that you see in your POD HD are just .WAV files, digitally located inside the flash memory.

 

As for third-party IRs, some IR libraries have very large pool of tinny variations of the same cab+mic.

For example you can find IRs that are Mic-ed on axis, 45 degree on axis, off axis, 1 inch off axis, 1 inch away from the cab and so on... all with the same cab+mic combination. (http://www.redwirez.com/)

On the current POD HDs, you only have a very few options.

 

someone said the POD HD's are not capable of loading your choice of IRs but I just don't know enough about why that is the case.

[zkkzkk32312]

they have made it abundantly clear that its not possible to use third party IR's in the POD and they aren't working on it either.  If you absolutely need them you can use the Two Notes Torpedo linked above for $995 or the Epsi Logidy C.00 for $199.  Those are your only real options for live use.  Studio of course is an easier story...

 

http://www.logidy.com/?pid=1

 

Oh I didn't know that they made that kind of statement.

I am well aware of those hardware options.

I guess I was just a little too excited to see new firmware updates and new Amp models coming,

and I thought maybe this is still possible in the future.

 

In a Studio situation I dont even use my POD.

Software options are just far superior in a modern DAW.

[zkkzkk32312]

Just did a search trying to find anything about this being impossible,

and apparently the last topic about loading user IR was also started by me a long time ago.

Totally forgot about it.  :wacko:

 

==========================================================================

 

Update:

 

After reading that entire thread that I started, which turned into a war zone (Any Plans For Custom Ir Functionality? in POD HD )

 

a Line 6 staff stated that this option is simply too difficult to get around with the current architecture of POD HDs, even the new X's.

[Tboneous]

I am not exactly sure what you mean.

To be clear I never said anything like "load a reaction to an impulse".

that makes no sense to me.

 

Like you said, an impulse responses in this context is basically the very last component in your signal chain, the "Guitar Cab's characteristic captured with a microphone".

In practice, these IR's are basically very short .WAV files that are just like any files on your computer.

In any modern DAW you can quickly go through lots of IRs (.WAV file) in your guitar signal chain simply by loading and swapping them in any IR loaders.

All for finding the sound that you desire.

 

POD HD works the same way,

it has a signal chain, from pedals, preamp, poweramp to cab+mics, and from my understanding,

all the CAB-MIC that you see in your POD HD are just .WAV files, digitally located inside the flash memory.

 

As for third-party IRs, some IR libraries have very large pool of tinny variations of the same cab+mic.

For example you can find IRs that are Mic-ed on axis, 45 degree on axis, off axis, 1 inch off axis, 1 inch away from the cab and so on... all with the same cab+mic combination. (http://www.redwirez.com/)

On the current POD HDs, you only have a very few options.

 

someone said the POD HD's are not capable of loading your choice of IRs but I just don't know enough about why that is the case.

Ah! Ok, thank you for clearing that up for me. I was so confused for a second there. Why not just say .wav file? If all you are talking about is mic and cab placement why not just say that? Impulse response is far more involved than just cab and mic placement. Seems like the wrong term. I'm probably over thinking it.

 

Hey, at least now I know what you are talking about!

[amsdenj]

Seems to me that turning off the HD500 speaker emulation, and using external IRs limits the value proposition of the HD500. Once you've introduced the computer and plugins, you might just as well go the whole way and use S-Gear for the amp too. I use my HD500X this way as an audio and MIDI interface to MainStage. This gives the flexibility to use the HD500X standalone when its tones are good enough, and use it with S-Gear when I happen to need the computer for other purposes anyway. The tones with S-Gear and its cabinet IRs is significantly better than what I can get out of the HD500X by itself. But that's not saying the HD500X isn't great too. I like having the flexibility and choice.

[radatats]

Seems to me that turning off the HD500 speaker emulation, and using external IRs limits the value proposition of the HD500. Once you've introduced the computer and plugins, you might just as well go the whole way and use S-Gear for the amp too.

 

That's true if you only consider using the computer but the Epsi Logidy linked above is completely useable with your HD500 live and has a pretty small footprint.  I have heard mixed reviews about external IR's.  Some guys tried them and swear by them, others said no big difference.  Some guys say its the final thing that separates the POD from the Axe FX.  It's definitely something on my radar for future use but for now I am pretty happy with what I get out of this rig with the current capabilities and look forward to the new model packs.

 

Mainstage is just for Apple products right?  I have looked into trying to do something similar with Windows but haven't quite gotten it together yet.  Would be interested in a video showing how your integrated system works and what it sounds like!

[joel_brown]

When using the EPSI Logidy for External IRs, make very sure you don't overdrive it.  It gives no visible indication but it's apparently easy to do.

[ozbadman]

Ah! Ok, thank you for clearing that up for me. I was so confused for a second there. Why not just say .wav file? If all you are talking about is mic and cab placement why not just say that? Impulse response is far more involved than just cab and mic placement. Seems like the wrong term. I'm probably over thinking it.

 

Hey, at least now I know what you are talking about!

 

Not to confuse you again, but you can't just say .wav file as it's not as simple as that. A .wav file is just a time-domain sampling of an audio signal. So, the normal thing to do with a .wav file is play it in an audio player as it is usually just a sound recording, or song, or audio track. So, if you just said ".wav" file, most people would think you would play it. However, in the context of Impulse Responses, you wouldn't just play it. It is the time domain recording of the output of the system being modelled, if the input signal is an Impulse (infinitely high, zero width signal, area 1 - basically, an impulse is a special signal that contains all frequencies, which is why it's useful). By playing an Impulse into a system, the Time Domain response that comes out allows us to get the frequency response of the system. That is, the transfer function of the system. Once we have that, we can take any normal input signal, like a guitar, and feed it through our digital model of the system and it will theoretically sound identical to putting it through the actual system (assuming perfect reproduction). A 3rd party IR is a recording of a particular system (cabinet, microphone, room, etc. any signal path basically) such that it can be modelled (well, reproduced) accurately digitally. You don't directly play these .wav files, you use them. As noted above, in the context of guitars, 3rd party IRs usually refer to sampled cabs + mics (since you can't sample a cab without a mic).

[rafgys]

Loading custom IR's is indeed not going to happen anymore (as Digital Igloo already mentioned a few times).

 

But that would not be necessary if we could have a decent sounding CAB in the POD itself, and that CAN be done, since the new firmware gives

the option to load new cabinets (there are new cabinets in one of the option packs).

 

So what I would really like is a good sounding new "Line 6" cabinet model pack. I don't have to be able to load custom IR's (would be terrific of course), but I would just be pleased with one of a few better option than the current CAB models (which now all have their own weak spots, which for me makes them very difficult to used without a lot of EQ tweaking).

 

I've tested loads of "custom IR" files via mixIR or my EPSI, and that is not the "silver bullet" by itself (I've also heard lots and lots of "custom" IR's files which sound worse then the default CAB's as well), but some Line6 version "CAB pack" of a quality IR library such as the Ownhammer v3 studio mix library could potentially be a significant upgrade to the existing POD HD, and that's certainly something that should be technically possible. It probably will be a bit "less quality" then the original IR files, but that should get the sound into the right direction.

 

But then maybe some current cabinets in combination with the new global EQ may give a similar results, so I'm having high hopes for this upgrade...And in the meantime, I'll happily continu using my current POD + EPSI combination!

[amsdenj]

I've used quite a few cabinet models in S-Gear and find quite a bit of variability. Certainly it starts with the actual cabinets and speakers that were sampled. Even speakers in the same cabinet can sound different. Next are the microphones used to collect the samples. Then the room in which the sample are made can make a big difference. And finally there's the algorithms required to deconvolve, and trim the in pulse response. The latest version of S-Gear has some IRs that Mike Scuffham created himself. These, and the Rosen IRs sound a bit better than the Redwirez BigBox set that I got a while ago. Hard to know why. 

 

Bottom line is you can spend a lot of time tweeking cabinets with all these models, and never be able to decide which one is "best". Sometimes they're just different. Too many choices can be as paralyzing as not enough. I think the HD500 sounds pretty good. I too would like to see some improvement in the cabinet models. But maybe the DSPs and memory constraints might result in some limitations for future expandability. That's ok with me, I like the HD500X quite a bit as it is, and if I need something more for certain situations, then that's what the computer is for.

[radatats]

Bottom line is you can spend a lot of time tweeking cabinets with all these models, and never be able to decide which one is "best". Sometimes they're just different. Too many choices can be as paralyzing as not enough.

Paralysis by analysis... absolutely!  As if there aren't enough things to tweak and obsess over in the POD now...  There are already a ton of different "flavors" available in the POD just by swapping cabs and mics and using the DEP.  I have spent a lot of time using the looper to run a phrase through multiple configurations and occasionally I find something really better but usually its just something a little different...   Guarantee the guys running a real amp through a real cab don't spend hours constantly swapping cabs and mics... they just turn it up and play, something we all need to do instead of tweaking...

[spaceatl]

Loading custom IR's is indeed not going to happen anymore (as Digital Igloo already mentioned a few times).

 

But that would not be necessary if we could have a decent sounding CAB in the POD itself, and that CAN be done, since the new firmware gives

the option to load new cabinets (there are new cabinets in one of the option packs).

 

So what I would really like is a good sounding new "Line 6" cabinet model pack. I don't have to be able to load custom IR's (would be terrific of course), but I would just be pleased with one of a few better option than the current CAB models (which now all have their own weak spots, which for me makes them very difficult to used without a lot of EQ tweaking).

 

I've tested loads of "custom IR" files via mixIR or my EPSI, and that is not the "silver bullet" by itself (I've also heard lots and lots of "custom" IR's files which sound worse then the default CAB's as well), but some Line6 version "CAB pack" of a quality IR library such as the Ownhammer v3 studio mix library could potentially be a significant upgrade to the existing POD HD, and that's certainly something that should be technically possible. It probably will be a bit "less quality" then the original IR files, but that should get the sound into the right direction.

 

But then maybe some current cabinets in combination with the new global EQ may give a similar results, so I'm having high hopes for this upgrade...And in the meantime, I'll happily continu using my current POD + EPSI combination!

 

I like how you guys rationalize this..."If the Cab Models sounded decent"....I think one guy put it as "giving us the freedom to choose"....I am still put out that POD hasn't made me a sandwich yet....All this time, and still no sandwich... :D

[cruisinon2]

I like how you guys rationalize this..."If the Cab Models sounded decent"....I think one guy put it as "giving us the freedom to choose"....I am still put out that POD hasn't made me a sandwich yet....All this time, and still no sandwich... :D

 

Seriously...I mean for $500, you'd think that you'd at least get a trip to the islands, or maybe a pony with it. (For any L6 customer care guys lurking around here...if you decide to go the pony route, I'd like a white one named George)

 

Hell, I'd even settle for a lifetime supply of picks and strings...something to make all my effort worthwhile. Do they care about their customers, or what?!?!?! :P

 

Ugh...if it did make sandwiches, somebody would demand a "panini" option in the next firmware update.

[Tboneous]

Not to confuse you again, but you can't just say .wav file as it's not as simple as that. A .wav file is just a time-domain sampling of an audio signal. So, the normal thing to do with a .wav file is play it in an audio player as it is usually just a sound recording, or song, or audio track. So, if you just said ".wav" file, most people would think you would play it. However, in the context of Impulse Responses, you wouldn't just play it. It is the time domain recording of the output of the system being modelled, if the input signal is an Impulse (infinitely high, zero width signal, area 1 - basically, an impulse is a special signal that contains all frequencies, which is why it's useful). By playing an Impulse into a system, the Time Domain response that comes out allows us to get the frequency response of the system. That is, the transfer function of the system. Once we have that, we can take any normal input signal, like a guitar, and feed it through our digital model of the system and it will theoretically sound identical to putting it through the actual system (assuming perfect reproduction). A 3rd party IR is a recording of a particular system (cabinet, microphone, room, etc. any signal path basically) such that it can be modelled (well, reproduced) accurately digitally. You don't directly play these .wav files, you use them. As noted above, in the context of guitars, 3rd party IRs usually refer to sampled cabs + mics (since you can't sample a cab without a mic).

Thanx for that! The fog has lifted and I am now with the rest of the class. I was conflating the process with the result. In my mind an Impulse response is me going into a large open space and and clapping my hands. My clapping is the impulse, the response is the echo for example. I can think of so many other examples of impulse response that have nothing to do with a mic'd cabinet. That is where I was getting confused.

 

I'm old! Impulse Response is a bit to "techie" for my little brain. I just like simple language. "I want to load my own mic and cab stuff from my personal library of mic and cabs into my HD" That I understand right away.

[zkkzkk32312]

I personally think that some of the built- in cab sims are really weird. If they can fix those in an firmware update will be nice.

 

In terms of custom IR loading, its not like I like going through 500 IRs and get lost in the process. it's just I have some IRs that I know I can work with and can be trusted, and will be nice if I can use it.

 

Sure for the price of all the POD HD I am pleased with what it comes with. But saying that having the ability of loading custom IRs is a bad idea or a waste of time is just stupid.

[radatats]

But saying that having the ability of loading custom IRs is a bad idea or a waste of time is just stupid.

 

I never heard anyone say it was either a bad idea or stupid.  Just not possible without using external gear.

[zkkzkk32312]

I never heard anyone say it was either a bad idea or stupid.  Just not possible without using external gear.

 

sorry I wasn't talking about you.

I saw someone saying that in the old thread that i made,

and that is 100% an excuse not to add this feature.

 

but yeah the DSP and sampling length issue pretty much killed it.

[spaceatl]

Now the cabs are weird, not to be trusted...dang, still no sandwich... :P

 

"Just not possible without external gear"...and here I am thinking that the Torpedo was a pretty decent hint as to why that might be...guess not...

[zkkzkk32312]

Now the cabs are weird, not to be trusted...dang, still no sandwich... :P

 

"Just not possible without external gear"...and here I am thinking that the Torpedo was a pretty decent hint as to why that might be...guess not...

Not sure what you mean...

I said "some" cab sims, and I said I trust a particular IR because I use it all the time in my DAW, whats the problem here?

what is this sandwich that you are talking about? Line 6 wants people to buy more Two-Notes' products?

[spaceatl]

It's the rationalization that is entertaining...It's classic rationalization...

Don't take it personal...everyone is doing it...You want IRs...I want a sandwich...In tribute to Looney... :blink:

 

It's start with a notion of informed acceptance...

-"I know the POD is not going make me a sandwich."

 

The middle lays the groundwork (rationale) that defines the problem...with modest acceptance...

-"But everyday around noon, I start getting hungry....and I know I can make my own sandwich..."

 

Finally, a solution is once again injected that conflicts with the original notion of informed acceptance...

-"If the POD just had the freedom to make me a sandwich, I would no longer be hungry....besides, my sandwiches are not very good."

 

Please do not confuse me with Line 6....I do not work for Line 6...sorry you missed it... :(

[clay-man]

There's no way they can have custom IRs.

First off, there is no way to have external memory to hold those IR files.

Second off, the internal memory probably doesn't have enough room to store IRs. WAV files are freaking huge.

Third off, Line 6's cab simulation might have a completely different technique, and they'd need to add a second cabinet system.

Forth, I doubt the DSP is stong enough to run the chain + the IR

 

I do think it would be great to have an IR, and be able to switch them out between patches, but right now, the HD doesn't have the proper hardware. Tell Line 6 to keep IRs in mind when making the successor to the HD series, and for external memory cards for sure.

[NucleusX]

.WAV files are only huge in the context of music audio files, but as an cab IR file, they are typically no bigger than 30kb.

[zkkzkk32312]

According to the line 6 staff it has everything to do with DSP power.  Nothing to do with how big they are.

 

 As for the technology, it's the same IR technology but they tweaked it to use less DSP power for the built in cab sims.

 

You can read what he said on the older IR thread.

[Mr_Arkadin]

According to the line 6 staff it has everything to do with DSP power. Nothing to do with how big they are.

 

As for the technology, it's the same IR technology but they tweaked it to use less DSP power for the built in cab sims.

 

You can read what he said on the older IR thread.

So I think you just answered your own question. Ask it again though, maybe the answer will be different a third time. 😉

[TheRealZap]

come on man... ease up! :D

he's already acknowledged he got his answer in his other thread....

he's just being conversational and correcting some inaccurate info on the topic.

all good, really....

i learn alot around here....

 

So I think you just answered your own question. Ask it again though, maybe the answer will be different a third time.

[radatats]

come on man... ease up! :D

 

he was just Responding on Impulse... lol