MIDI Noob Question

[wllm]

I thought I'd just start a new thread for a question I asked in another thread:

 

So I'm using spaceatl's "MIDI OUT to MIDI IN approach" to achieve an ABCD EFGH patch setup on my POD HD500X, which he explained here: http://line6.com/support/topic/13214-fs1-8-assigned-for-patch-change/ 

This is working fine.

 

Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to send MIDI commands not only from the POD to itself (to change patches), but to simultaneously send commands to a MIDI switcher so as to switch channels on my tube Amp.

I know next to nothing about MIDI - is it even possible to send multiple commands through a single cable? If this is not the case, could anyone recommend any hardware that would help me achieve what I'm trying to do?
I hope I managed to communicate what I'm trying to accomplish here.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

 

Cheers

 

[CipherHost]

From my limited MIDI experience...

 

You should be able to send MIDI commands to multiple devices. The key is matching the channel you send the change to is the channel each device is listening to. The setback I see with what you are wanting to do is that you have already used FS1 - FS8 to send MIDI commands to change patches in your POD. Normally you have a MIDI thru to reach other devices. Some type of Y cable or some kind of multi MIDI connector box.

 

It's none of my business but... If you are going to set 4 FS's to control an external MIDI device, you could use the ABCD setup and create your setlist in the order you will be using the patches. The nice thing is the flexibility. 

[panaman]

as usual, the manuals (pilots guide, advanced guide) are not very specific- it says you can switch to midi out or out+through in the system pages. and to use a standard 5 pin cable.

however the midi spec has out and through on the same pins, 5 and 4. (but on 2 different connectors)

i doubt L6 would have included a midi merger.

chances are the thru makes use of the otherwise unused pins 1 and 3, both the outermost pins @ 3 and 9 o clock.

this was introduced in the old atari days.

in this case a simple passive adapter can split the 2 signals.

 

to answer the question: midi uses opto-isolators. their input is basically a LED which draws current.

a 220 ohm resistor limits to appr. 10mA.

my korg z1 synth has standard cmos drivers 7408 as midi output stages, they can supply 20mA easily.

the pod we dont know, so its risquee to connect 2 ins to the one out.

drawing more current will also cause the slopes of the midi data signal to deteriorate, especially with longer cables.

there is of course rather little traffic from the pod with the occasional push of a button...

[spaceatl]

You can do it, but you "might" need a little gear to help out (maybe not, see later in the post)....

 

Basically, what you are saying you want to do is trigger a sequence of midi events (CC, PC etc) from a PC change initiated on the HD if I am understanding your post...

 

A powerful option

 

In terms of performing, I would recommend you check out a midi event processor: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm

 

A simple extra midi thru or out.

 

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm

 

I am not sure which amp you have, but I think on some of them you can record the PC changes and assign the amp channel....I am not sure if it would make send to just loop the whole rig....If the amp midi out can be a thru or the out has switch to make it a thru and the amp can record PC changes for channel assignments, you might could wire this way...

 

HD midi out->amp midi in

amp midi thru->HD midi in

[wllm]

Thanks a bunch for your help, I'll try my luck!

 

Cheers

[spaceatl]

Can you post the type of amplifier you are using? You might be able to do this with no added gear...

[wllm]

Hello there,

 

The amp is an ENGL Gig Master 15 E310, it has no MIDI functionality built in afaik, so I'd be surprised if it was possible without added gear, but I might be wrong.

In its manual it says:

 

If you want to control the amplifier via a MIDI system, use jacks 15 and a Looper or MIDI Switcher

(e.g. ENGL Z-11). Use two stereo ¼" cords to connect the ENGL MIDI Switcher Z-11 (optional). You

can then preset the two switching functions Clean/Lead and Mid Boost via the Switcher, store your

custom switching setups as different MIDI programs and activate the presets via a MIDI board (e.g. ENGL Z-12).

 

 

Cheers!

[spaceatl]

Ahh, So you need a midi relay box....You might look at the Voodoo Lab Control Switcher...Might not cost as much and is a bit more general purpose in terms of adding midi to different amps...

[wllm]

Hey there,

So I sold the Engl and got myself a Torpedo CAB, which has a MIDI in.

I'd really appreciate if you could illustrate how (or if) I could switch 8 patches on my POD via the PODs Midi and simultaneously change patches on the Torpedo CAB all with one switch on the POD.

 

I would definitely need a MIDI thru, right? A midi to dual midi cable wouldn't do the job?

Edit: Seems like no such cable exists. Thought I'd seen one somewhere..

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks so much, cheers.

[cclement]

Here is what I could glean from both manuals… somewhat paraphrased:

 

The HD500x sends fixed Program Change (PC) messages over MID for each preset with Values from 0 to 64. The specific value is determined by the current Bank (e.g. - for Bank 1 these four footswitches send Values 0 - 3, for Bank 2 they send Values 4 - 7, etc.)

 

On the Torpedo CAB, each preset has a single program number. Preset 01 of the machine is triggered by receiving MIDI PC 00. You can address the 100 presets (from 01 to 00 meaning 100), with MIDI PC 00 to MIDI PC 99.

 

So what you will need to do is map which HD500 preset should go with which Torpedo CAB presets. For instance:

 

• If you select Bank 2, preset #2 on the HD500X it will send MIDI PC 05.
• The Torpedo CAB would get the MIDI PC 5 message, and change to Preset 6 (a bit confusing because MIDI uses PC 00 for what we would think of as Preset #1.)
• On the Torpedo CAB, you would want to make sure that the IR you wanted for that HD500X patch (Bank 2, Preset 2 in this example) was copied to the 6^th Preset on the CAB.

 

So the mapping is:

 

HD500                                            CAB

Bank 1, Preset 1 (PC 00) ->           Preset 1

Bank 1, Preset 2 (PC 01) ->           Preset 2

Bank 1, Preset 3 (PC 02) ->           Preset 3

 

Hope this helps.

[wllm]

Thanks a bunch cclement, that helps me out loads!

Now all I need to know is how to simultaneously change patches on the pod via midi and I'm all set :D

 

Cheers mate

[cclement]

Thanks a bunch cclement, that helps me out loads!

Now all I need to know is how to simultaneously change patches on the pod via midi and I'm all set :D

 

Cheers mate

 

Appendix B-3 from the Advanced guide... it's very similar to what the HD500 sends:

 

POD HD500X will respond to incoming MIDI Bank & Program Change messages as follows.

• Load Set List: From your MIDI controller device, send a Bank Change CC0 (Bank MSB), CC32 (LSB) message with a value of 0 (for Setlist 1), 1 (for Setlist 2), etc., followed by a Program Change message (Value 0-63 for Preset 01A - 16D) for the desired Preset within the Set List. The Set List and Preset are loaded on POD HD500X.
• Load a Preset within the current Set List: Send a Program Change message (Value 0-63 for Preset 01A - 16D) for the desired Preset within the current Set List.

[wllm]

Thanks again, I'll give it a shot when I have the chance and report =)

 

Cheers!