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Problems With Di Recording

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#1 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:01 AM

Hello

I just bought a DI Box and I have a problem with getting a wet signal with it.
I want to record a tube preamp through it and to have the advantage of easy editing. So I want to record it with the preamp connected and I want to keep that sound but to have a waveform that is easier to edit. The problem is that I dont hear the preamp at all, Reaper is recording just the dry signal. Could somebody tell me how to set it up ? Am I missing something ?

Connection:
guitar=DI Box IN
preamp=DI Box OUT->preamp IN
interface=DI Box->XLR->Mic In of my Tone Port

The DI Box is a Palmer 01, recording is set up for mic input 1.

 


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#2 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:57 AM

Make sure that you are recording the processed signal.  Usually that is sends 1&2.  You need to have POD Farm or Gearbox running in order for Reaper to record a processed signal.


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#3 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:59 AM

Yes, I have the send 1 set for the recording. But opening gearbox is not an option because I want to record it with the preamp's tone that is connected to the DI Box, not with the Line6 tone from Gearbox/Podfarm.


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#4 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:29 AM

How are you getting the signal from the pre-amp into your DI?


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#5 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:43 AM

Cable coming from the OUTput of the DI Box and going into the INput of the preamp. I watched some tutorials on YT on recording DI and everything is connected properly.


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#6 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:32 AM

If you are recording via USB you need to do this

 

Guitar>>Preamp>>Toneport DI

 

Anything in your physical signal chain after the Toneport DI will not be sent to your DAW via USB.


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#7 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

You seem to be missing the part about getting the signal out of your pre-amp and into your TonePort.  The DI Box is only acting as a splitter and sending the dry guitar to the TonePort.


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#8 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:47 AM

LOL!!

 

I missed the part where he states what the DI box is.

 

I was thinking he had a preamp going into a Toneport DI Silver or Gold.


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#9 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:52 AM

Is it possible you do not have the correct switches engaged on the Palmer?


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#10 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:53 AM

Try this . . .

 

Guitar --> Pre-amp in

Pre-amp out-->DI 1/4" In

DI XLR Out-->Toneport Mic In

 

You could also plug the pre-amp directly into the TonePort's line-in's and eliminate the DI.


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#11 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:54 AM

Is it possible you do not have the correct switches engaged on the Palmer?

With what he is describing, there is no active feed coming from the pre-amp in this config.


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#12 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:55 AM

Is it an  A/B-Y box, so he might have some other routing need?


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#13 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:00 AM

+1 to BigChas

 

Try this . . .

 

Guitar --> Pre-amp in

Pre-amp out-->DI 1/4" In

DI XLR Out-->Toneport Mic In

 

You could also plug the pre-amp directly into the TonePort's line-in's and eliminate the DI.


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#14 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 07:48 AM

Try this . . .

 

Guitar --> Pre-amp in

Pre-amp out-->DI 1/4" In

DI XLR Out-->Toneport Mic In

 

You could also plug the pre-amp directly into the TonePort's line-in's and eliminate the DI.

 

I tried it and it worked. I mean, I can hear the preamp now. Now, there's still a problem because the waveform does not look like a DI signal, looks almost the same as my line-recorded preamp signal. And I want to use this DI Box to be able to edit easier. I set up two tracks to record, one with send 1 and the other with send 3. But they both seem to be wet and they are the same visually, not good.


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#15 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:01 AM

In order to get both a wet and a dry signal, you'll have to feed signals into the TonePort twice; a dry one from the DI/splitter, and a wet one from the pre-amp.  The TonePort cannot take a wet signal and make it dry.

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to do will work with your current setup.

 

Does your pre-amp have either an XLR input or XLR output?  If so, I can suggest something that will work.

 

Another suggestion . . . Why don't you use the TonePort as the pre-amp?  There are several decent pre-amps in there.  Use sends 1&2 as processed and 3&4 as unprocessed.


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#16 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:38 AM

Yes my preamp has an XLR line out. What do you mean by using the TP as a preamp ? I think that when I record I should have two tracks armed at the same time. The first one should get me the wet signal and the other one a dry signal which should be different visually. That would be ok too. Cause I would "see" on the dry signal where to cut/paste in the wet signal. I would just edit them both at the same time.


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#17 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:27 AM

Which Toneport do you have?


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#18 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:42 AM

UX 2.


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#19 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:32 AM

When you say wet and dry, do you mean the dry has your preamp and the wet has your preamp + Pod Farm tones?


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#20 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

By wet I mean only the tone from the preamp. I dont use gearbox at all when recording. By dry I mean a clean signal without any tones, a DI signal.

I mean this device is supposed to split my signal into two just like BigChas52 said. So while I have the preamp connected to it, I should end up with two simultaneously armed tracks which record those two seperate signals. IDK.

 

 
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#21 Triryche

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

Can you post a link to the DI box you have?


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#22 Patyk1986

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

Yes.

 

http://www.palmer-ge...ssive-PAN01.htm


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#23 BigChas52

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

OK . . . Try this

 

Guitar --> 1/4" DI Input

1/4" DI through --> pre-amp input

pre-amp XLR out --> TonePort Mic1

DI XLR Out --> TonePort Mic2

 

In the ASIO console, change the Input Source to "Mic 1 & 2"

 

Record sends 1-2 will be your "wet" side from your pre-amp

Record Sends 3-4 will be your "dry" side, direct from your guitar.

 

This should work nicely

 

As a separate conversation, Gearbox (also POD Farm 1, which is free), has some decent tube pre-amps built into it.  You could just plug your guitar into the TonePort, bring up one of the pre-amps and record directly.  You can set Sends 1&2 to Reaper as "processed/wet" and Sends 3&4 as "unprocessed/dry"  I don't know if this will sound any better than what you are trying to accomplish with the extra outboard gear, but it's sure a lot simpler.


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#24 Patyk1986

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:59 AM

OK, Im gonna need to buy an additional xlr cable. Gonna post the results as soon as Im gonna have it.


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#25 Patyk1986

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 03:52 AM

OK, just tried this setup and it works ! Now I have two tracks, one wet and the other one is dry so I can now edit the DI signal and just apply the cuts or whatever to the wet track.

BigChas52, Triryche thanks for your help.

Additional question: is it worthwile to buy a better DI Box like a Radial ? This setup works but maybe a higher quality DI will produce less hums or inteferences ?


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#26 BigChas52

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:19 AM

I cannot say if a better DI would help.  Hums and noise can come from lots of sources.  CRT's, flouescent lights, ground loops, dirty power, and other things can add noise.

 

Before you go out and invest more $$, why not at least try recording with only the TonePort and Gearbox.  Try using the "Tube Instrument Preamp" for starters.  You may find that you like the results.


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#27 Patyk1986

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:38 AM

Well its actually the fact that the tone is a bit altered as opposed to the one recorded thru line-in. It is a bit more hollow, less upper frequencies. So I was figuring that maybe the Radial would not alter it in any way. Yes, I recorded some songs with Gearbox. But a tube preamplifier's distortion is so much better, richer.


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