JTV + HD + Motif + StageSource L??

[Rewolf48]

The time has finally come to upgrade my second hand plastic PA speakers to something that will actually sound really good and even fool the "real guitar amp" people. With a JTV and HD500 and after a lot of online research it has come back to StageSource just ahead of Yamaha DSR; Atomic CLR might be nice but not really easy to get in the UK and is a bit over my justifiable budget.

 

If it was just me playing the JTV and HD500 then L2M is obvious - I wouldn't need the mixer and guitar doesn't need the extended range that a L3 offers.... except that I play keyboards as well (Yamaha Motif XF is the primary board) and if I am going to spend good money then I don't want to short change myself by not covering the Keyboard range as well as Guitar with the same speaker.

 

The use is primarily for backline covering both guitar and keys with personal monitoring should we get to bigger stages - at this point in time I am thinking single speaker, but the question is which StageSource to get? Band is live drummer, but sensible volume on-stage volume, so I want really good quality sound at a range of volumes.

 

I don't have anywhere near to try them (no local stores have stock of anything except bottom-end stuff), so it is all based on internet opinions :unsure:  [you can see why I am confused!]

 

Is it worth spending the extra 16% to upgrade from an L2M (£462) to an L2T (£535) or the marginally more expensive L3M (£542), a L3T (£614) is also just about possible - after all that is a mixer for only £70.

 

Or (heresy I know on the L6 forum) should I consider the QSC K10 (£579) or higher end Yamaha DSR112 (£694), or perhaps go lower end with DXR10 (£434).

 

Any advice welcome... 

[quadcabby]

Hi. I'm based in the UK and have L2s and 3s. If you're fairly close by then I'm happy for you try them.

[SiWatts69]

Likewise, here in the UK too :-) L3's and L2's in my arsenal.

 

Back when I purchased my original set, the price differential was bigger (£100 per speaker) and I opted NOT to go for t models.

 

BUT, if I were buying now, with experience of these great speakers, I'd definitely select the t models, just for the added flexibility that they give you. I've subsequently added 2x L2t to my rig.

 

The L2 is a remarkably good full range speaker, but the L3 gives you almost twice the power and is definitely better at handling lower frequencies.

 

I'm South Yorkshire if you wanted a play :-)

[Rewolf48]

Thanks for the offers - I'm south of Birmingham, so Yorkshire (even South Yorkshire) is possibly a little bit far.

 

Can you give me a rough location quadcabbie (PM if you don't want to reveal your location publicly), or if there is anybody else a bit closer to my region?

 

I have read that the L2 would compress the low end a bit at louder volumes (from those playing Metal with dropped tunings - which is not really my style) and similarly that you need L3 to get a really good Grand Piano or Church Organ sound as it splits the low end load between the two speakers (250Hz?).  

 

Which is what I am concerned about, but at what sort of volume? I haven't taken my current speakers (200+50W) beyond 70% but that means nothing without knowing how hot the input signal was or how efficient the speakers are, or how the speaker is positioned.

 

It sounds as if musically I want the L3t but only if I can live with the size and weight, which can be best assessed by seeing one first hand. One definite - I am not getting a Sub - with keyboards and guitar my rig is big enough already!

[zaphodboy]

 

 

I have read that the L2 would compress the low end a bit at louder volumes (from those playing Metal with dropped tunings - which is not really my style) and similarly that you need L3 to get a really good Grand Piano or Church Organ sound as it splits the low end load between the two speakers (250Hz?).  

 

 

 

I use a Variax and HD 500 through an L3m. I play very little high gain stuff but at gig volumes, which for us is L3 at 12 o'clock notch position and HD500 master at 10 or 11 o'clock I still need to roll off some bottom end. Once the bottom end has been rolled off a bit it sounds awesome though!

 

Not sure if that helps or not? 

[Rewolf48]

Is everybody that owns StageSource speakers in the UK based in the north of England?! 

 

:)

 

So it will be quite loud then... as I understand it 12 o'clock on the speaker is default for L6 Link control, and the HD500 Master starts at 7, and you are only going up to 11. I currently have to roll off the low end anyway because my current speakers get muddy quite easily (especially when placed on their sides as monitors), so taking a bit of the low end off isn't a problem - do you use the Cab model cut, and EQ or just the Amp bass control?

 

Another little question of you don't mind... if the HD500 master is set to 10 o'clock (about 3/10), then the level coming out of the direct outs will be very low - even when full up I was told that the signal level on the XLRs was low, so how do you feed out to FoH?

 

I know that I am talking myself into a L3t - for the better handling of the lower end and because it has a mixer so it will be easier to plug the keyboards into. Just waiting now for a cheque to clear - unfortunately it is made out in USD from a US Bank and may take up to a month before my UK account gets credited.

[zaphodboy]

We're an innovative lot up north!!  :D

 

The L3 is massively loud to the point that it's difficult to adjust the POD master to make it 'slightly louder'. Move the knob at all and it can have a BIG effect on volume. Too much low end on these speakers tends not to make the sound muddy as such, just less balanced.

 

I find rolling the bottom end off the amp works just fine without having to resort to EQing. As far as FOH we play pubs and small clubs with the odd wedding thrown in. We just have vocals through our p.a. with drums bled through slightly to fill the sound. All the instrument volume is just via our amps. In the environments we play this set up works really well and are frequently complemented on our FOH sound by the audience. 

 

If you wanted to boost the signal level on the XLR outputs I don't see why turning the POD master up and L3 volume down would make a negative difference. The 12 o'clock 'notch' position is not essential as far as I know....I've never tried it though.

[SiWatts69]

If you wanted to boost the signal level on the XLR outputs I don't see why turning the POD master up and L3 volume down would make a negative difference. The 12 o'clock 'notch' position is not essential as far as I know....I've never tried it though.

To my knowledge, the 12 o'clock notch on the L series speakers is the optimum level for when you are using them via L6Link from a StageScape M20d. Without the M20d in the mix, there's less need for 12 o clock to be maintained, though whether it also has an optimum status for L6Link from your POD is outside my knowledge base :-)

[Rewolf48]

A quick update - I spotted a "repair with tatty box" L2t from a major UK retailer for a good price and jumped - after all if Digital Igloo uses an L2t then it is probably good enough right?  And it was probably for the rattly fan issue, and as a repair it would have been fully tested so no chance of failure, and if I didn't like the way it sounded I could always return it because it was distance selling.

 

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to find out what it sounds like properly as out of the box it has the Limiter Fault: play music at very modest volume (using RCA inputs from an iPod set to low volume) and within 10 to 20 seconds the sound cuts out completely, the limit light comes on fully (solid red on front) and the fan comes on full.

 

Same as: http://line6.com/support/topic/728-l2t-misbehavior/ and http://line6.com/support/topic/11519-l2t-starts-limiting-after-few-seconds-overheating/

 

What amazes me is that if this was a repaired unit how did a fault as obvious and easy to spot get though post repair testing? I mean surely any test must involve actually playing some music for more than 10 seconds?

 

The little I heard sounded quite good - much more mids than my old speakers, just got to hope that I can get a replacement within a few days - I have a big gig in 3 weeks (for me anyway) and can't afford to wait.

[Rewolf48]

:angry:

 

Really not impressed - the Dealer; let us just say it is a big name in the UK based in Guildford, name begins with A and ends with TON which often does big video reviews on the net has turned out to be completely unimpressive when the item turns out to be faulty. I had heard this about them from other sources but never had a problem before.

 

Obviously I want a working speaker as soon as possible, but all I get is "sorry we don't have any more B stock. What do you want to do?"

 

Err.. how about laying out my options for me? I can return it or perhaps you can do some sort of exchange to get me going as soon as possible? You know that additional money of mine you have also taken for the speaker bag that you are not expecting to deliver until October, how about cancelling the bag and using it towards the difference between the one I have and a brand new one? So I get a new speaker in a few days for a total discount of £25 off the £535 bill (4.6%) as a goodwill gesture. It is not much but a disappointed customer, having to wait in all day because the email telling me when the delivery slot will be doesn't arrive until 10:45 when obviously I am committed to taking the whole day off work only to have the actual delivery after my normal time getting home, only to discover that it doesn't work within 3 minutes of the delivery van disappearing, perhaps might need slightly more than a token "sorry".

 

Their suggestion is that I return it to them so they can forward it to Line 6 Service (who didn't notice that the speaker didn't work after they "repaired" it last time) and then in maybe 3 to 4 weeks I can get it back after it is repaired.  As in I accept the faulty item from them as good thus relieving them of all responsibility and then I can get it repaired under warranty and maybe I will have a working speaker a week or so after I really needed it (which they know) while they bank my money and presumably laugh all the way to the pub. And if it is still faulty I should do it all again until it finally works.

 

They will do an exchange for new, but only if I pay the full difference in price because don't value you as a Customer or have any consideration for the inconvenience.

 

 

Fortunately UK Distance Selling regulations mean that even if you deliver a perfect item I can return it because I didn't see it before I ordered it, and items that are faulty when opened are also returnable no matter how purchased, the problems only really start when you follow their advice and accept the item.

 

Needless to say it is going back, the bag order is cancelled and guess who has just lost the replacement L2t, bag and planned L2m, bag and Helix purchases.

 

Not that Line 6 come out of this in a good way at all - if you send an item as repaired to a dealer to sell as B Stock then surely you test that it actually works to full factory QA specifications - like testing that a PA speaker can be used at volume?

[Rewolf48]

We I have to be fair here - the dealer did come good and I got the exchange to a new unit for the price of the bag, it arrived just before rehearsal last night so it got taken out right away with no time to tweak any patches.

 

I am gobsmacked, the difference compared to anything I have used before is amazing; all I did was to remove the parametric EQ after the amp and set it up as 60 monitor.  The sound was so clear and responsive it really felt like a real amp going clean to breakup smoothly; and it sounded the same everywhere in the room just a bit louder on the direct line. This is exactly what I had hoped the Dream Rig would be like - the rest of the band were really impressed.  And just in time as we are recording this weekend. If anybody is doubting whether Stage Source speakers are worth getting, then I have to say that they are, and that unless you really need an extended low end that an L2 has plenty for most purposes at reasonable volumes.

 

I will have to tone down some of the effects because they are coming across stronger that I had thought, but I really should have done this ages ago; now I am just going to have to sell the old speakers and get an L2m to got with it giving me stereo!