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More Monitors/more Inputs - 2 Questions


Best Answer rssouthw , 18 July 2013 - 10:24 AM

Thanks all....   I've looked at the Aviom and thought about cascading a 2nd m20d, and you know, it's a money thing.   That's yet another "mumble cuss cuss" amount of cash I'd have to come up with.

 

The "best" solution for my problem, as I indicated, is just the 4 mixes and let a couple of the musicians share, and tell the bands to stop whining about it.  I was just making sure I didn't miss some real obvious simple thing.

 

But also my private hope is that Line 6 someday (hint hint :) ) make a wider version of the m20d, with more inputs and more monitor ability  (maybe more monitors only available via the L6-Link)

 

-Roger

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#1 rssouthw

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:48 PM

Looking at the m20d, looks very interesting.... and I don't own one (yet) due to money being too tight.  But I thought I'd ask these couple questions:

 

I frequently mix bands which require more than 4 monitor sends.... for example, one band I know has 6 members, all of whom want a unique mix.

And of course, I have the main outs, but I really don't want short my audience to take one/both of the main outs as a floor monitor channel....

So, aside from setting up just 4 mixes (with 6 floor wedges) and telling the band to stop whining, are there any suggestions?

 

As a future product, I hope Line 6 will consider more monitor channels (10?)  and more XLR inputs (24), to (sort of) compete with a Presonus 24x4x2.

 

For me, for mixing a festival, with multiple bands, we sometimes need more than 16 mics and line inputs just to simplify the stage change over time.

With a wider, analog board today, we use extra channels for some parts of band B & C (muted)  while band A is on stage.... then minimal stage change over

happens to get band B on stage (mute A, and un-mute B).   This is another reason I'd like more monitors.   Some times, its easier to spread the bands
out a bit physically different (put lead guitar A in a different spot the lead guitar B/C), or band B has more members.

 

Thanks in advance for your inputs....

 

-Roger

 


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:39 PM

As much as I'm "in love" with the entirely fresh approach brought to our "Audio World" by Line 6's unique StageScape concept, Roger...

I honestly do not believe that a single M20d can ever fulfil the requirements that you seek, your "brief" also happening to be one that I am routinely called upon to fulfil.

For an "all in one box" solution along the lines you describe, it would seem that you and I will need to wait for something like a "StageScape M40d". :wacko:  :lol:

 

However, you may be interested to hear that I often actually prefer a "tandem console" set-up for situations such as you describe, particularly when touring remote areas that (by definition) cannot provide any support in the event of a console "meltdown".

 

The ramifications of that architecture were canvassed a while back in this discussion: http://line6.com/sup...m20d-in-series/.


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#3 litesnsirens

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 06:19 AM

Back when I was a kid and walking to school up hill both ways in 6 feet of snow backwards, you were lucky to get one monitor mix for the entire band in which you could actually hear yourself..

How easy it is to get spoiled, I have to admit I love being able to tweak my own monitor mix now, and if I think about how over the course of the night last night I was able to get it perfect and then save it... it's just amazing.  But I think now that I have it set up like this... it's just a good mix of the band... I think anyone in my band could stand in front of my monitor and have a good night of playing.

 

I would be inclined to do up the 4 monitor mixes and for the last 2 guys send them mix A then B, C and D and see which they like the best.  IF there is something they need tweaked.. tweak it a bit and then see if the original guy is still happy. But that's just me... And I don't do sound for Rush or Van Halen or anyone that high up the food chain.


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#4 Digital-sound

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

I remember the same thing. When I switched from the Studiolive 16.4.2, I said to a band mate "but I am only going to have 4 monitor mixes now instead of 6!". He just looked at me funny....nothing more was needed. I do remember the days of 1 monitor mix very well. They were only about 5 years ago for me.

And I agree with Ron. In the situation you are describing (A &B setups/two bands), it seems that 2-M20D's would work great. I know, it is almost twice what you would pay for a studiolive 24.4.2, but it would be convenient... and better?

But having said all that, it would be nice to make it expandable. With some sort of USB interface and even controlled by a computer? Then, we could use something similar to the Audiobox 1818, but by line 6 of course. And you could select as an input or output. Therefore, more ins, or more monitor mixes! And heck, maybe then it could actually be a better studio interface as well! I better get over to the "suggestion board".
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#5 RonMarton

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:19 PM

My colleagues at RAI TV in Italy do a huge variety of "Spectacoli" and "Calcio" shows on rapid turnaround, all of which are live and feature diverse collections of equally live musicians, usually featuring orchestras of between fifteen to fifty players.

 

No time or money for a separate monitor mixer, neither the desk, nor the person.

 

Hence their reliance on a "string" of the predecessors to this digital Musician's consolette, from French company Aviom:

 

http://www.aviom.com...-Personal-Mixer

 

The orchestras arrive, put in their IEMs, play a few things and tweak their monitoring during the "warm-up guy's" five-minute stand-up for the live audience and then "it's showtime folks", ...live to air.

 

(Vocalists are fed their IEM monitoring direct from the Sound Supervisor's desk in the main control room, which is also the source of the consistently allocated "drums", "bass", "keys", "strings", etc. buss mixes that feed their Aviom system.)   

 

Isn't a "GUI pictorial touch-screen" Line 6 version of that consolette exactly the sort of product that we'd like added to the StageScape catalog ?


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#6 Digital-sound

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

Isn't a "GUI pictorial touch-screen" Line 6 version of that consolette exactly the sort of product that we'd like added to the StageScape catalog ?

 

That would be very nice!


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#7 rssouthw

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:24 AM   Best Answer

Thanks all....   I've looked at the Aviom and thought about cascading a 2nd m20d, and you know, it's a money thing.   That's yet another "mumble cuss cuss" amount of cash I'd have to come up with.

 

The "best" solution for my problem, as I indicated, is just the 4 mixes and let a couple of the musicians share, and tell the bands to stop whining about it.  I was just making sure I didn't miss some real obvious simple thing.

 

But also my private hope is that Line 6 someday (hint hint :) ) make a wider version of the m20d, with more inputs and more monitor ability  (maybe more monitors only available via the L6-Link)

 

-Roger


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#8 dreadlocks

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:24 AM

Along with my l6 linked dreamrig system (M20d and stagesource speakers)I use 4 db  cromo 10 +, monitors (nice sound, and very mobile) for my five piece band.  My keyboard player and female singers like in ear monitoring, so I bought 2 splitter boxes (from Art).  Cables from Monitor A and B are routed to the splitter boxes and then 2 cromos are connected to each splitter box.  That's 4 monitors right there.  C and D are then available for the in ear setup.  True, you can't do individual mixes, but in my band everybody has the strange affliction of enjoying what everybody else is playing and not just themselves.   This, of course elimates problems like "Just kick and snare and a touch of the bass  in my monitors".

 

My band is a five piece combo. Bass, guitar, Edrums, 2 keyboard players and Ableton live.  Everybody sings and we also use TC Helicon Voiceworks rack. Which means we need more channels than the M20d can provide.  We have therefore added the Presonus vsl 1818. Some instruments are routed there and then from stereo master out to two channels in the M20d.  Both Presonus and M20d are controlled remotely with ipad. My drummer controls Ableton live with SPD and by using a Focusrite Saffire 6 usb  for audio interface he is able to route click  and loops to his headphone.   For additional input channels we have the Presonus vsl 1818 audiobox, which after we route stuff their we send a stereo master output into channel 13 and 14 of the m20d. 

Our system is very easy and quick to setup (10 minutes max) the sound is awesome (my two keyboard players use Cantabile with keyboard controllers - but that's another thread) and I would like to think it's partly due to the winning combination for all of the above why we are now getting tons of gigs. Nicely paid gigs, too.

My only gripe is that whenever we select the Presonus app we lose the connection to the m20d - hope this can be fixed in the future so the app stays on in the background. So... System works great. Monitors work great. Everybody is happy.


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#9 RonMarton

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:54 AM

...I would like to think it's partly due to the winning combination for all of the above why we are now getting tons of gigs. Nicely paid gigs, too...

 

Yes, ...but only "partly", ...IMHO !

 

I reckon that the key phrase is...

 

...in my band everybody has the strange affliction of enjoying what everybody else is playing and not just themselves...

 

...which immediately signifies to me that

  1. All of you are (at the very least) competent players,
  2. The band is a true ensemble, rather than an agglomeration of individual egos ...and
  3. You all know what it is you are actually listening for and the purpose behind that listening.

So we're revisiting the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario, in that you guys would not have taken the trouble (nor had the sensitivity needed) to acquire and configure your marvellous set-up if you were deficient in any of the three qualities I've listed.

 

All of which makes it a fair bet that your band would succeed regardless of the technology at hand. Now, if only all bands were like that...  :rolleyes:

 

I humbly salute you, efendi. 

 

May your tribe increase ...and the fleas of a thousand camels forever infest the armpits of your enemies.     


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