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Variax And Hd500 Plain Acoustic Patch


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#1 adessmith

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:44 PM

I use a variax now with my HD500 direct to the PA, and have stopped carrying my acoustic when I play out.
I like the variax acoustic models if I plug into a direct box, but how can I get a similar sound running through the HD500?
I want to be able to switch from acoustic to electric keeping a similar output level on the same channel.

 

I've found some patches for acoustic on custom tone which are ok, but they all have a lot of DSP processing the sound, and they don't sound quite as good to me as the acoustic models direct to PA without the HD500.

 

Any suggestions for building a patch which will do nothing but allow me to add gain without adding or taking away much from the dry sound?
I just want to start with something like that before I try adding any EQ  or dynamics processing.


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#2 ltmsc

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:05 PM

Can't you just run a patch with no amp and use the mixer on the HD500 to balance the volume? I use the tube comp, one EQ, and a little chorus on my Variax acoustic sounds. They sound great to me. One of the factory line 6 Variax acoustic patches used the tube comp, so I stole their idea. I actually run both the Variax and mags at the same time. I use the mags for my electric sounds and the Variax for acoustic. I added another volume pedal to the HD500 and utilize one pedal for electric volume and one pedal for acoustic volume. Works great.
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#3 silverhead

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

You could try using just the Vintage Preamp on the HD500. You will find this in the EQ/Preamp FX section. Another option is to use the Tube Comp FX, but you'll have to tweak it to find the right balance for minimal compression with adequate gain/level control.
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#4 adessmith

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:17 PM

I've been using a Black Face with my mags for my electric tone.
I basically have 4 patches I use.

1) Locked to Mags, Blackface pretty much clean. Can add tube screamer or delay with foot switches.
2) Locked to Mags, Blackface with a little more gain. Has fuzz that engages with wah.

3) Acoustic 1 model routed left, Mags routed right into blackface. Volume pedal assigned to both but inverted on the blackface. (Gives me ability to blend from one to the other)
    I also lock out the toggle, tone and volume on the acoustic models for this one, so I can adjust my electric sound without changing up the acoustic.
4) Acoustic 1 only (I use this if I don't need the electric, and want to be able to adjust my volume with the pedal)

 

I really like this setup, but I've never been satisfied with the acoustic on either 3 or 4.
The signal chain on the acoustic patch I found was "Tube Comp > Graphic EQ >  Studio EQ > Analog Chorus > Hall Reverb > Volume > Tube Comp"

I'm not really good with EQ or compression, so I haven't tinkered much with this, but it was the best sounding patch out of the ones I tried with custom tone, but I still like the acoustic without the HD500 best, however, I am using VDI for power and I need to keep my guitar to one channel on our mixer.

 

I was going to try to start over with my acoustic patch(s) and build from the ground up, so I'm just looking for a good neutral starting place.


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#5 ncavins

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:54 PM

I am having the same problem with my Variax/ HD500 combo.  the acoustic settings are really low volume. Causing you have to attenuate the electric patches (so when you switch channels they don't blast you out). If I Plug my variax straight into the board I can set the gain at about 10db. and get great volume and clean headroom.  through the HD 500 (with no virtual amps in line) I can't get enough volume even at +60db.  Are there any amps to add to chain the acoustic patches that would not change the clean acoustic sound but get it up to the electric level?

I'm using a Variax 700 elec for both electric and acoustic via the data cable. I use the HD 500 to change the channels on the variax. I'm  primarily a singer so I need to switch channels without too much attention being taken away from the vocals. 


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#6 Junis

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:21 PM

you can use the mixer to increase volume . I use tube comp , 1 eq and reverb .To balance volumes between patches I use mixer


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#7 ncavins

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

I'll try to find it when I get a chance, I don't remember finding a mixer. I will look harder, I thought I was missing something. the output couldn't be designed with that much level variance.

thanks!


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#8 xpanmanx

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:03 PM

Watch where you place the tube comp in the signal chain.  I found it really easy to overload it.  I think there's definitely some "warmth" aka distortion built into the model, the trick is to find where it begins to rise past acceptable levels.


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#9 Junis

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:20 AM

where do you think the best place to put the tube comp? My patch also this overload

Watch where you place the tube comp in the signal chain.  I found it really easy to overload it.  I think there's definitely some "warmth" aka distortion built into the model, the trick is to find where it begins to rise past acceptable levels.


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#10 Junis

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:18 AM

in my gigs happens something that intrigues me, my paych of acoustic guitar sounds great in PA, clear, deep and bright, but in my earphone it is totally overload, but the curious thing is that it is only the acoustic overload that is, the rest sounds good, kick, snare, bass guitars are great but the patch acoustic guitar overload, can someone help me?


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#11 ncavins

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:28 PM

Thanks Uber Guru!, The vintage eq worked, I turned it up and it gave me enough volume.  

In my previous post, I also thought you were referring to a mixer that controls the overall mix between channels. I had found the 2 channel patch mixer you were referring to and had it at 75, (which I have now turned back to 60) I didn't want to push it any more and lose unity. I still think they should add a clean virtual power amp like a Crown DC 300 and maybe a few other classics. Then you can turn it up without loosing all the clarity. (and help balance the levels between acoustic and electric channels better.)


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#12 xpanmanx

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:25 PM

Here's my acoustic tone that I use with the JTV 2.0 D-28 model (picture and tone attached).

 

It's a dual-tone sound, I kick in the DT Bomber Uber when playing choruses on song's like Cracker's "Low."  The amp on/off is mapped to "stomp," and the amp output is mapped to controller A.

 

I use the Bomber Uber and Dimension and delay when playing power chords behind the solo during Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb."  Like before, the amp on/off is mapped to "stomp" and the output to controller A.  Additionally the Dimension and delay are multi-assigned to "delay."  Tap tempo is there too.

 

Note the placement of the Studio EQ relative to the Tube Compressor.  Even so, you can see that I've got to keep the level on the comp really low to avoid "warmth," or distortion.

 

The mixer outputs are cranked to 9.5dB for the clean and 5.0dB for the dirty.

 

 

acoustic_tone_zpsdfd6177a.jpg


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#13 ncavins

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:00 AM

I'll give that a try next time I hook back up to workbench. I didn't think of using the compressor because I though it would take away the natural Dynamics. Right now I am using the studio and Vintage pre's and they are working but I notice some grainy-ness on some of the channels. 

I still would like to see line 6 add at least one clean power amp.  that way the all of the input devices could be focused only on sound character and unity instead of needing to push gain out of them to achieve output parity with other pre sets.


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#14 ozbadman

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

I'll give that a try next time I hook back up to workbench. I didn't think of using the compressor because I though it would take away the natural Dynamics. Right now I am using the studio and Vintage pre's and they are working but I notice some grainy-ness on some of the channels. 

I still would like to see line 6 add at least one clean power amp.  that way the all of the input devices could be focused only on sound character and unity instead of needing to push gain out of them to achieve output parity with other pre sets.

 

You can achieve output parity between presets using the Mixer tab in HD500 Edit.It works like the master volume controls on a PA mixer. It has a control for Path A and Path B, and goes from +12dB to -infinite (i.e.: no sound). This is the control you should be using to balance patch volumes.

 

See attached.

Attached Files


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#15 Junis

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:39 PM

made an experience that was suggested here in the forum and found fantastic, got the 2 12-string acoustic guitars and turned off the pitch paralel, making the 6-string guitars, sounded fantastics, million times better to martins, worth a try I got 2 more acoustic guitars fantastics, and replaces the martins by these new in acoustic
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#16 ncavins

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 02:39 PM

I tried this and found that by the time I boosted the acoustic enough to get parity with the other channels it was clipping and sounded awful. the other option would be to go into every other patch and turn them down (doesn't sound feasible). Using some of the suggestions for pre amps I was able to get OK results with a minimal amount of clipping. still if I plug the variax straight into the board and use about plus 18 gain on the input I get a signal peaking at about +3 to +6 and sounds fine.  Going through The HD it was peaking at about Minus 12 . Trying to make up this difference using the pre amps combined a slight gain with the two channel mixer, I can get it close but with some loss of quality (with a few more hours of tweaking I may be content with it, now I'm at about Minus 3). I cant imagine that the best remedy is to go into all of the gazillion other patches and turn them down.  Adding a virtual power amp or acoustic amp seems just too logical to me. Have everything leave the HD at the same amplification stage. are you listening line 6?

You can achieve output parity between presets using the Mixer tab in HD500 Edit.It works like the master volume controls on a PA mixer. It has a control for Path A and Path B, and goes from +12dB to -infinite (i.e.: no sound). This is the control you should be using to balance patch volumes.

 

See attached.


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#17 reddwarf

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:12 PM

I insert an Fx loop in the second channel (input set to Variax) and route that out of the FX send to a mixer. That way I can control it via the HD500 and have the direct acoustic variax sound. I could find no other way to get a decent sound out of the HD500 when using acoustic patches. The difference is night and day. It is very surprising that the HD500 was not designed with this in mind and a preamp for the acoustic sounds. A major oversite in my opinion, that along with no global reverb or delay and a tiny screen you cannot read on stage unless you have a magnifying glass.


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