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2 Guitarists In The Band: Me With Hd500 To Pa, The Other With Real Amp


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#1 hendrix83

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

Hi all.

I recently got my hands (finally) on a POD HD500 with the purpose to play live with the band. But I'm facing a problem. I was planning to run the Pod directly to the PA, but the other guitarist in the band has a regular amp, and he doesn't mic it 'cause we intend to play in small settings like pubs. So of course the two guitar sounds are coming out quite unbalanced and have a weird diffusion in the environment.

 

So the band members (who are skeptical towards digital modeling) want me to revert to a standard combo or at least run my Pod into the power section of and amp.

But I don't want it! I decided to go with modelers because of the extreme advantages in terms of flexibility and portability and I don't want to give up on that.

 

How would you fix this issue? Have you ever been in a situation like this/do you have a bandmate wich runs through a real amp?

Is the only solution to mic the real amp in order to have an homogeneous sound coming out of the PA?

 

Thak you so much for your replies, they'd be much appreciated!

 

A.


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#2 Geekydaddy

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:46 PM

QSC K10 ;)


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#3 ozbadman

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:28 AM

I haven't tried this, but I suspect that you could get away with a pretty small amp on-stage, and also go through the PA. By having at least some of your signal coming from the same place as the other guitarist, our ears might well be fine with it. The PA is then used as your main power, but effectively reinforces the on-stage amp. This would allow you to keep the portability of the HD500 to some degree since a small amp (maybe even say 10 or 15W) would still be fairly portable. I'm guessing at the size, but this is how the sound reinforcement is done at the Hollywood Bowl (although technically on the reinforcement, there is a slight delay as our ears perceive the first sound we ear as the direction it is coming from, then it is reinforced deliberately slightly later by speakers to the sides). Might be worth a try anyway, and if you do try it, report back.


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#4 jjm35

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:50 AM

DT-25 

You will have the best of both worlds   ;)


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#5 Jeffsco

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:37 AM

I split my signal on my POD XTLIve...one part went to a FRFR Atomic 50 for stage mnitoring and the other went to the PA. Best of both worlds. For your HD500..I'd take the advice of the poster and run into a QSC or some other FRFR cabnet for monitoring.


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#6 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:12 AM

Instead of spending a ton of money on a DT-25 or a really expensive active speaker, consider a small PA (powered mixer/speaker combo). This is the one I got:

 

http://www.guitarcen...577-i1469199.gc

 

You can find it even cheaper used (mine was $250 with pro coverage). Runs true stereo (unlike most small PAs around this price range), speakers sound great (and you can always buy better ones later), and has a really nice mixer on it.


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#7 TheRealZap

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:23 AM

you might just find you a keyboard amp like the roland 300... essentially a PA combo...


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#8 hendrix83

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

The QSC K10 option is out of budget for me, too damn expensive... I was thinking on something more entry level (but still good) like the Alto Truesonic TS115a or Mackie Thump TH-15a. They're both in the 250-300 euros range and offer a sufficient wattage.

If I'm going to use the loudspeaker as my "amp", without going into the PA (as the other guitarist is not going to mic his cabinet for small gigs), I guess I'd need to place it behind me, facing me and the audience. Then, should I need an additional speaker in front of me as a monitor or should I be fine with just the "amp" at my back? What do you think?

 

Thanks so much for your useful comments!


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#9 TexasStrat

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:38 AM

I actually tried a Behringer 212D and a 215D and liked the tone from the 12" speaker a little better. it sounded pretty good and is an inexpensive solution. I since have upgraded to a powered EV speaker, but the 212D served me week for 2 years and was plenty loud.
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#10 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

The QSC K10 option is out of budget for me, too damn expensive... I was thinking on something more entry level (but still good) like the Alto Truesonic TS115a or Mackie Thump TH-15a. They're both in the 250-300 euros range and offer a sufficient wattage.

If I'm going to use the loudspeaker as my "amp", without going into the PA (as the other guitarist is not going to mic his cabinet for small gigs), I guess I'd need to place it behind me, facing me and the audience. Then, should I need an additional speaker in front of me as a monitor or should I be fine with just the "amp" at my back? What do you think?

 

Thanks so much for your useful comments!

Just keep in mind that the options you stated are just mono speakers so you're forfeiting the ability to have stereo effects.

 

If your band is running front monitors then you'll also need to run to a monitor. Remember you can use both the line and XLR outputs simultaneously on the Pod. If the other guys aren't running front monitors then you won't need to either, although having played gigs both with and without monitoring, through miked and unmiked amps and direct to PA, you really can't beat direct to PA with your signal fed back to a front monitor. Takes full advantage of the Pod and you can actually hear stuff on stage.


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#11 hendrix83

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:28 PM

Just keep in mind that the options you stated are just mono speakers so you're forfeiting the ability to have stereo effects.

 Yes I know, but anyway I could not use stereo effects even if I'd buy a combo amp. And by the way stereo effects are not so important at this stage of development of the project. I can definitely live without  ;)

 

Thanks so much for your advices about monitors! So, when needed, I could buy a second loudspeaker to use as a monitor and leave the first one as "amp" behind me  :)


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#12 napynap

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

...and he doesn't mic it 'cause we intend to play in small settings like pubs...

Hendrix83, plan for the future. Eventually, you will both need to have some guitar in the PA, especially when you get outdoor gigs. I've learned this while working with a keyboardist in the band, who is always in the PA. I'm running a combo amp with a XLR direct out to the PA.


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#13 hendrix83

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:37 PM

Do you have any advices about how to EQ the sound of the guitar going to PA, in order to make it fit nicely in the mix with singer's voice and the other instruments? 


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#14 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:11 PM

Do you have any advices about how to EQ the sound of the guitar going to PA, in order to make it fit nicely in the mix with singer's voice and the other instruments?

Use the DEP Low Cut parameter, set it accordingly to whatever effect you are using in order to make room for bass while still allowing your tone to have low end body. Basically just tinker with it until the "boominess" goes away but it still sounds good with decent low end. Do this on a FRFR PA (ideally the one you will be playing through!) or else you're wasting your time. Alternatively you can use the mid focus EQ as a high pass filter, but personally I dislike it - look up meambobbo's guide on using it.

To get out of the way of the singer's voice, I suggest you actually get a spectrum analyzer set up on a laptop (I suggest http://www.artalabs.hr/) and get your singer to sing a typical song. Look at the spectrum profile and see where their "natural" frequency lies (basically this would be a frequency somewhere in the mids for a male, high mids for female, and it would be the one that sticks out most prominently. you'll see lots of peaks, those are harmonics, go with the strongest one). Stick a parametric EQ at the end of your signal chain and scoop this out, once again scoop out enough so that it will leave room for voice but not cripple your tone, find the sweet spot. Even better if you are able to direct whoever is controlling the PA to scoop that frequency out for you, again you will need to optimize this BEFORE the gig.

This is all stuff that takes a lot of work and you will need to re-do this often, but it makes a massive difference. The sound of a guitar, a bass, and a voice fighting for frequency space through one PA is very ugly.
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#15 hendrix83

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:23 AM

Use the DEP Low Cut parameter, set it accordingly to whatever effect you are using in order to make room for bass while still allowing your tone to have low end body. Basically just tinker with it until the "boominess" goes away but it still sounds good with decent low end. Do this on a FRFR PA (ideally the one you will be playing through!) or else you're wasting your time. Alternatively you can use the mid focus EQ as a high pass filter, but personally I dislike it - look up meambobbo's guide on using it.

To get out of the way of the singer's voice, I suggest you actually get a spectrum analyzer set up on a laptop (I suggest http://www.artalabs.hr/) and get your singer to sing a typical song. Look at the spectrum profile and see where their "natural" frequency lies (basically this would be a frequency somewhere in the mids for a male, high mids for female, and it would be the one that sticks out most prominently. you'll see lots of peaks, those are harmonics, go with the strongest one). Stick a parametric EQ at the end of your signal chain and scoop this out, once again scoop out enough so that it will leave room for voice but not cripple your tone, find the sweet spot. Even better if you are able to direct whoever is controlling the PA to scoop that frequency out for you, again you will need to optimize this BEFORE the gig.

This is all stuff that takes a lot of work and you will need to re-do this often, but it makes a massive difference. The sound of a guitar, a bass, and a voice fighting for frequency space through one PA is very ugly.

Wow that's a hell of advice! Thank you! I will try that. What about making space for a keyboard player? Since guitar and keybord normally "share" the mid frequencies, how am I supposed to EQ my sound for that?

I hope I'm not bothering you with so many questions, but this is a completely new world for me and I'm starting from scratch...


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#16 Rewolf48

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:15 AM

With 2 Guitars, Bass and a Keyboard in the band then the most important thing is to work out who plays in what range and with what sound.  

 

That is something you just have to work out between you, but I am in a similar position as Rhythm Guitar (JTV) and Keyboards in a band that also has Lead Guitar (Les Paul/Marshall + top end backing vocals), Lead Singer (+ Dual Keyboards), Bass (+ MIDI Pedals + mid range backing vocals), oh and the Drummer! So we have 3 vocalists, 2 guitars, 2.5 keyboards (bass pedals for basslines or drones), bass and drums. 5 people.

 

If the two guitars are playing then you need to be completely different sounds e.g. Les Paul+Marshall v Strat+clean(er) or Acoustic, ideally playing different harmonies or at least different shapes in different positions.  If the Keyboards are all going for it then again completely different sounds at different ranges and especially avoiding the mid range as that is where the vocals are going on. And don't forget the most important part than many "musicians" forget - to just shut-up sometimes. If there are 3 part vocals (e.g. June by Spock's Beard) then most of the other instruments drop out leaving just a single instrument like acoustic guitar.  

 

his takes some planning but we really have a lot of flexibility.  Listen to bands that do this all the time - like 3 guitar bands such as Iron Maiden or Lynyrd Skynyrd.  And like all rules in music sometimes you just need to break the rules for a climatic effect. :rolleyes:


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#17 hendrix83

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:53 AM

Yes dividing and planning the parts is essential. But as far as EQing is concerned, I ask myself: is it better that each player EQes its own instrument at the source (like the amp, for example) in order to have the "final" sound coming out of the PA, kepping the desk EQ flat, OR is it better to just set up each instrument sound the way the musician likes it the most, and then correct the final mix with desk EQ knobs? So long story short: is it better to EQ "at the source" or at the final stage?

I mainly played as a classical guitarist for the last 10 years or so, hence I never had such "problems" to face in the classical guitar world!  :lol:


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#18 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:49 AM

Wow that's a hell of advice! Thank you! I will try that. What about making space for a keyboard player? Since guitar and keybord normally "share" the mid frequencies, how am I supposed to EQ my sound for that?

I hope I'm not bothering you with so many questions, but this is a completely new world for me and I'm starting from scratch...

You won't really ever be able to make space for a keyboard because they usually cover such a wide range of sounds and frequencies. At that point it's just not playing over each other, or when you do it, make sure it sounds good.

 

To add to Rewolf48's comment, I do think it's possible to have multiple guitars and a keyboard running a similar-ish sound and playing the same note if you want to strongly accentuate a note or create a "stark" soundstage for the drums to counter. However, I agree that this should be used sparsely, and if you are going to do it, get someone who isn't in the band to watch you practice and tell you whether it sounds good. I find that I like bands that layer sounds all over the spectrum to create the "wall of sound" effect such as Devin Townsend or Minus The Bear, but also enjoy hearing the intensity of doubled-up or tripled-up notes such as you often hear in American Metal or some unison solo runs in Prog Metal. Iron Maiden are a good example of combining both approaches to good effect, although sometimes I do kinda wish Janick would retire because his leads are frustratingly pointless.


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#19 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:52 AM

Yes dividing and planning the parts is essential. But as far as EQing is concerned, I ask myself: is it better that each player EQes its own instrument at the source (like the amp, for example) in order to have the "final" sound coming out of the PA, kepping the desk EQ flat, OR is it better to just set up each instrument sound the way the musician likes it the most, and then correct the final mix with desk EQ knobs? So long story short: is it better to EQ "at the source" or at the final stage?

I mainly played as a classical guitarist for the last 10 years or so, hence I never had such "problems" to face in the classical guitar world!  :lol:

Bands should EQ as a band. Ideally you would assign the most sonically adept person to man (or woman) the mixing board and balance/EQ everyone out. But, a good starting point for individual EQing is for the guitars to apply that high pass filter and that mid-range voice scoop, and for the bass to TURN THE DAMN THING DOWN. So, the answer to your question is both!


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#20 mark2711

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

I use a marshall AS50 acoustic amp as my stage amp and believe it is fantastic for reproducing the sound from the hd500. I set the HD500 to line out and then XLR into PA's where I play and use the 1/4 out s to go to the front of the AS50 or into the effects return depending on how loud I am allowed to be on stage. Being an acoustic amp it reproduces the full range really well. One thing to remember when using an amp in to the front is to set the channel bass and treble to minimum. A lot of people dont realise that the EQ controls on amps tend to be passive (i.e. when you turn the treble up you are actually reducing the bass) and setting the EQ controls to 12 o'clock changes the sound from the hd500 quite a bit. I have played with a few different bands and all are very suprised at the volume and quality of tone that comes out of the acoustic amp. it just doesn't look like those sounds should come out of it.

Hope that helps.


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#21 artist1354

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:44 PM

QSC K10 ;)

Got my vote.  I use one and run through it direct to the p.a.  If the K10 is too expensive, a Behringer 212D is a very good alternate choice.


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#22 dbgrant

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:39 PM

I use a marshall AS50 acoustic amp as my stage amp and believe it is fantastic for reproducing the sound from the hd500. I set the HD500 to line out and then XLR into PA's where I play and use the 1/4 out s to go to the front of the AS50 or into the effects return depending on how loud I am allowed to be on stage. Being an acoustic amp it reproduces the full range really well. One thing to remember when using an amp in to the front is to set the channel bass and treble to minimum. A lot of people dont realise that the EQ controls on amps tend to be passive (i.e. when you turn the treble up you are actually reducing the bass) and setting the EQ controls to 12 o'clock changes the sound from the hd500 quite a bit. I have played with a few different bands and all are very suprised at the volume and quality of tone that comes out of the acoustic amp. it just doesn't look like those sounds should come out of it.

Hope that helps.

This is exactly what I use and it works very well, so good to see it confirmed. The advice about keeping the tone controls at 0 on the amp is spot on, although I run into the effects return on my Marshall AS50D, mainly because it's louder that way. I have the same response as mark2711 from people who can't believe the huge sound they hear. I'm not sure if it'd be loud enough for a thunderous drummer: I don't have one of those. I haven't had to set the master volume at more than 12 o'clock. Yet.


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#23 bjnette

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:35 AM

With 2 Guitars, Bass and a Keyboard in the band then the most important thing is to work out who plays in what range and with what sound.  

 

That is something you just have to work out between you, but I am in a similar position as Rhythm Guitar (JTV) and Keyboards in a band that also has Lead Guitar (Les Paul/Marshall + top end backing vocals), Lead Singer (+ Dual Keyboards), Bass (+ MIDI Pedals + mid range backing vocals), oh and the Drummer! So we have 3 vocalists, 2 guitars, 2.5 keyboards (bass pedals for basslines or drones), bass and drums. 5 people.

 

If the two guitars are playing then you need to be completely different sounds e.g. Les Paul+Marshall v Strat+clean(er) or Acoustic, ideally playing different harmonies or at least different shapes in different positions.  If the Keyboards are all going for it then again completely different sounds at different ranges and especially avoiding the mid range as that is where the vocals are going on. And don't forget the most important part than many "musicians" forget - to just shut-up sometimes. If there are 3 part vocals (e.g. June by Spock's Beard) then most of the other instruments drop out leaving just a single instrument like acoustic guitar.  

 

his takes some planning but we really have a lot of flexibility.  Listen to bands that do this all the time - like 3 guitar bands such as Iron Maiden or Lynyrd Skynyrd.  And like all rules in music sometimes you just need to break the rules for a climatic effect. :rolleyes:

This is the right advice. Pre production setup is an important part of rehearsal. You must have tonal separation otherwise you get wash outs where a player turns up but still is cancelled by another. A guitar is a full range instrument especially If you play direct to the PA without a mix Engineer. You might be washing out the others thus they want you to change back.

Playing guitar parts different to each other on the neck is essential for the best seperation and front of house mix especially during instrumentals.

The vocals gets the Lions share of the mids, up to highlows for mosts males,

The rythmn guitar should have a wide mid scoop to envelope the vocals Highlows overlap low mids, scooped up to highmids

The solo guitar should cut thru with a narrow highmid or highlow when with a singer. hihats and cymbols get the highhighs.

This is not set in stone and different genres have their peculiarities.

But to make things simple most records have lots of frequency cuts in them to fit everything into the dynamic and frequency range of the media.

Live there is a  wider dynamic and frequency range and more forgiveness but you still have to apply EQ cuts.

Give each player their frequency spaces. You'll sound great and can be trusted thru the PA


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#24 hendrix83

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:50 PM

Got my vote.  I use one and run through it direct to the p.a.  If the K10 is too expensive, a Behringer 212D is a very good alternate choice.

 

The Behringer 212D has a very nice price! How does it compares to Mackie TH-15 and Alto Truesonic TS115a? They're 15" speakers and I saw a few videos of people using them with the Pod on Youtube. They're both in the same price range, more or less. Furthermore, is it better a 12" or a 15" speaker? Does it make a very noticeable difference?

 

Give each player their frequency spaces. You'll sound great and can be trusted thru the PA

 

Yeah, I've read something about "frequency slotting". But how to do it? I don't have a spectrum analyzer so I have to trust my ears (with are not so used to this kind of jobs). What is the starting point for doing that? Is it better to work directly on the preamp knobs of the amplifier (and of the Pod simulations) or to have an external EQ filter for the guitars and bass?

Thanks!!!


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#25 artist1354

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:31 PM

If you think about the sizes of typical guitar amp speakers, ten and twelve inches, a fifteen seems too big.  I don't even like it when our bass player plays through his rehearsal amp which is loaded with a single fifteen.  It's too flabby.

 

The K10 lets the nuances of the modeled amps come through and fits in the mix onstage very well.  I saw another guitar player in a medium sized club gig once using a Behringer with a POD HD 500.  I think it was the 212D, but it could have been the ten inch model.  For the price it sounded very good.  His tone coming through the mains was great.

 

It really comes down to the fact that if you are pushing everything through the FOH speakers, whatever you are using onstage is mostly for your own monitoring.  The advantage of using an FRFR type speaker as a monitor is you hear exactly what the audience hears through the mains.


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#26 bjnette

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:54 PM

If you roll the flab off the 15' bass it tightens up but better it gives a tight defined bottom end.

 

When all players have an Amp combo or cabinet there is an isolation in the sound stage. But if two guitars both have say 2x12 cabs,

they risk washing each other out.

The first way to differentiate their tone is to lift one of the amps off the floor.

You can check this with your own Amp, on the floor the bass is hyped. Lift it up onto a chair more mids, higher onto a table, more top end and might get a little thin.

 

Bass is ambi directional and is best on the floor fairly centered with the drums.

Rhythm guitar could be a nice warm 4x10 or 2x!2 horizontal flat on the floor.

Lead could be  single 12' on a crate or  2x12 upright stack

 

If you think in those terms into a PA you got some cutting to do as the speakers up on stands are going to accentuate the bright and if you crank the bottom end to fill it out so it sounds balanced , no one else will be heard.


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#27 hendrix83

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:07 PM

It really comes down to the fact that if you are pushing everything through the FOH speakers, whatever you are using onstage is mostly for your own monitoring.  The advantage of using an FRFR type speaker as a monitor is you hear exactly what the audience hears through the mains.

 

Let's say that we aren't pushing everything through the FOH, let's say that we are in a small sized club and there's no need to place the guitars and bass into the PA, so we're playing through amp cabs only (me through the loudspeaker). In that specific case, small sized venue, the 12" loudspeaker would still be enough or would be better to go for the 15"?


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#28 bjnette

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:13 PM

12" for guitar, 15" for bass.

The 15" won't be as utilized by guitar. It'll work alright 

 

I being primarily a bassist want my bottom end and don't want a guitar invading my space and washing me

 

The guitar lives in low highs to highmids. Isn't that enough space!  2x12" is as low as your permitted on guitar and we bassists would prefer you stick to 4x10" unless your soling a 12 is great! LOLOL


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#29 Rewolf48

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:16 AM

I have 10" in my FRFR and it is great - I don't need sub-bass from a guitar (even if the bass player is invading my space by playing at the top of the neck ;)) .  

 

There are quite a few sub-woofers that only use 8" speakers, and the BOSE B1 sub that goes with the L1 speaker system only uses a pair of 5 1/4" speakers (also found in one of our bassists' cabs x4).

 

The only reasons for a 15" are to try and get low-end when using a really poor configuration such as only a pair of speakers on poles or because of poor design.


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#30 artist1354

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:27 AM

Let's say that we aren't pushing everything through the FOH, let's say that we are in a small sized club and there's no need to place the guitars and bass into the PA, so we're playing through amp cabs only (me through the loudspeaker). In that specific case, small sized venue, the 12" loudspeaker would still be enough or would be better to go for the 15"?

The twelve inch is still the way to go.


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#31 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

10" will carry guitar just fine, but if you play 7-string or drop tunings then a 12" will help bring out your low end a bit. However, it also means your low end flab will come out more and you will clash with the bass more.


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#32 hendrix83

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

The twelve inch is still the way to go.

 

 

10" will carry guitar just fine, but if you play 7-string or drop tunings then a 12" will help bring out your low end a bit. However, it also means your low end flab will come out more and you will clash with the bass more.

 

Mmmh that's a hard decision. I'm tempted with the smaller size and lightness of the 10" model, but I also want to make sure to have enough juice for live usage (i.e. for those little pubs where we won't go into PA) and more headroom...

I'm taking a look at the Alto Truesonic models, they seem quite popular with people on modelers. I see the majority goes with the 12", some others go for the 15" but not many go for the 10".

I wonder if it's just the usual "megalomania" of the average rock/metal guitarist that thinks he needs a full stal with 4x12 cracked up even in small venues just because "it rocks!" or if it's actually better to go for a bigger cone, tonewise...


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#33 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:05 AM

Bigger cone means nothing if the speaker is crap. Pay more attention to the quality of the speaker and the cabinet more than just the size. Also, I'm not suire if by "juice" you mean volume, that is of course not related to the size of the speaker but the speaker's impedance (which relates to its efficiency) and your amp's wattage, and "more headroom" can easily also mean "more frequencies you need to worry about cutting".


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#34 hendrix83

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

Bigger cone means nothing if the speaker is crap. Pay more attention to the quality of the speaker and the cabinet more than just the size. Also, I'm not suire if by "juice" you mean volume, that is of course not related to the size of the speaker but the speaker's impedance (which relates to its efficiency) and your amp's wattage, and "more headroom" can easily also mean "more frequencies you need to worry about cutting".

 

Yes, with "juice" I was meaning volume, 'cause the Alto 12" is a 400w continuous, while the 10" one is 300w. I know that, as stage monitors, both would do fine. I'm not shure if the 10" would be enough as a stand alone "amplifier" for the gig.

What about the Mackie Thump series? Anybody has experience with those?


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#35 Astaroth_CY

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:19 AM

I run 100W per channel through two 10" 8-ohm two-ways and if I turned up my volume past 50% I think it might cause an earthquake.


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#36 Rewolf48

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:18 AM

Forget Watts they mean nothing - you need to look at SPL data and associated distortion figures.

 

My FBT Maxx2a with 10" speaker is only 200W into the main and 50W into the tweeter but gives 121 dB (@ 1M) 

 

QSC K10 is 1000W and gives 129 dB

 

Alto Truesonic are 800 watts of Class D power and SPL of 125 dB for the TS112W and 126 dB for the TS115W

 

To give you a comparison most guitar speakers are relatively inefficient and give 97dB to 105dB.  For FRFR which is simulating the distortion of the normal guitar speaker it needs a little more headroom to sound the same.

 

But none of this matters really because this is what experts says about SPL levels and permanent damage to your ears:

 

Question: How long can a person endure a certain noise level before hearing impairment occurs?

Sound Pressure Level   Sound pressure   Permissible Exposure Time
115 dB 11.2 Pa 0.46875 minutes (~30 sec)
112 dB 7.96 Pa 0.9375 minutes (~1 min)
109 dB 5.64 Pa 1.875 minutes (< 2 min)
106 dB 3.99 Pa 3.75 minutes (< 4 min)
103 dB 2.83 Pa 7.5 minutes
100 dB 2.00 Pa 15 minutes
  97 dB 1.42 Pa 30 minutes
  94 dB 1.00 Pa 1 hour
  91 dB 0.71 Pa 2 hours
  88 dB 0.50 Pa 4 hours
  85 dB 0.36 Pa 8 hours
  82 dB 0.25 Pa 16 hours

 

Very seriously as a musician you shouldn't have more than about 90 dB SPL without protections and ideally a lot less.

 

Conclusion: a 10" powered speaker of decent quality is more than enough for monitoring or backline 


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#37 hendrix83

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:55 AM

Thank you for all your replies. Now the quest is to find the right speaker for me. Maybe the Altos or Maybe the Mackies Thump...I still don't know. What I know for sure is that I must stick to the budget  ;)


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#38 wildbillmojo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:45 PM

I play in a band with two guitars, one HD500 (me) and another conventional. In my experience you will screw up the front of house sound if you insist on playing through the PA when the other guy is not. You have some options:

  • Mic the other guitar player, even if it's a small gig, not for loudness but to spread his tone like yours is (and don't you be using stereo effects btw). Pan each guitar to a different place in the stereo image (e.g. 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock);
  • Get a small amp; the acoustic amp that Mark2711 suggested is a good idea as they have a pretty flat frequency response, but I get great tone out of my Blackstar S1-45 (using 4CM) or a laney Lionheart L20h straight into the front end. I have different patches for each amp as the amps have different characteristics.
  • IMHO the best option is a good small valve amp (maybe the Orange Tiny Terror?).

I personally prefer a good amp behind me :)


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