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Advice From Frfr Players


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#21 Vettacon

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

"FRFR certainly is a different animal", yeah once you start keeping this in mind, it becomes much easier. I've been playing along with favorite songs and trying to mimic what I hear on the albums as that what's going to be heard in your monitor and at the FOH if you play out. What's also interesting, is either the other bandmaster don't care or it sounds good to them with me going through the pa at practice.
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#22 davidb7170

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:08 PM

I think you'll find all kinds of opinions for FRFR. I'll throw mine into the pot. Remember, what works for one may be totally unacceptable to others....

 

I went through an evolution of equipment and tries. My goal is to have what I hear be what the FOH hears -- out to the audience. I started back in 2004 or so with a Variax 300 and my Fender SS Performer 1000 amp with a multi FX pedal board, but soon went the route of a L6 XTLive pedal to my Fender via the FX return jack, them mic'ed to the PA. I could get vey good sounds from it, but a video recording made me realize what the audience was hearing was totally different than what I heard right in front of the amp -- so began my journey with the PODs... The sound out front was very tinny, and was the result of close mic-ing not picking up the bass that open-backed combos rely on to fill out their sound.

 

Next try was the XTL into the line in of a CRATE PB150 150 watt amp into a floor monitor with an Eminence Tonker 12" guitar speaker. Used that setup for a few years and was happy with it. The XTL did not have XLR out, so I used the XLR out of the CRATE.

 

My XTL died one night at a gig -- bad power jack... The X3L's were out at that point, so I picked one up. Luckily, you could import patches from the XTL into the X3L and the X3L would make a passable translation of it. The X3L has XLR outs, so I ran 1/4" to the CRATE and XLR to the FOH. Overall tone improved, as the XLR were Studio/Direct and the 1/4" were set as combo/stack front/back -- something I really miss in the HD500.... Not sure why they dropped that from their design -- it's been the subject of many threads in the boards here....

 

Mean time I got my JTV-59. I could control it with the X3L, but not as well as I'd hope and the HD500 has that down right, so I finally got my HD500. The XLR / 1/4" jack thing raised its ugly head, and I could not get a good sound out of my guitar speaker set and the FOH XLR at the same time. The guitar speaker has a frequency response that peaks in the mid ranges, and when set to studio/direct, the amp models also have peak responses in the midrange frequencies, so they get over emphasized through the guitar speaker when it sounds good through FOH. If I set the output mode to combo/stack fount/power amp which compensates, the FOH sounds crappy -- without being able to split signal types to the XLR's and 1/4" outs, your pretty screwed.

 

I tried a self-powered speaker like some of the other responders have mentioned. The one I tried was a Carvin 12" with 400 watts, but it sounded brittle to me, and did not have enough guts before it started clipping, so I returned it. One thing I discovered with solid state Class D amps is to buy 2X the power you want to end up with to give yourself clean head room before clipping. I thought 400 watts would do, but I could not drive it hot enough to satisfy.

 

I then found I needed more power due to noisy and outside gigs, so I picked up a Crown XLS1000 power amp, but had the same issues with the speaker responses, so I explored the possibility of a FRFR speaker I wanted to get something without the guitar speaker midrange peak, so tried the Eminence Beta 12LTA, a speaker used in PA speakers -- also by themselves in a single speaker PA cabinet. the speaker is rated for 225 Watts continuous, but any speaker can take twice its rating for short periods. Definitely more flat the a guitar speaker. I bought 2, and run 1 for inside gigs on my Crown XLS1000 bridged for 700 watts for 1 speaker, and 2 speakers for outside/noisy gigs for 1100 watts. Remember what I said about pick a solid state amp that can put out twice what you need, Also the continuous loading of a speaker is where the speaker starts to "open up".

 

ANWAY -- I run the HD500 in studio/direct mode and the rig sounds great both in my monitors and the FOH. I've been doing this since early this spring, and have been very happy with it. I'd like the convenience of the self-powered sel-contained speaker, but to get the power I'd need they'd be much heavier than I want, and expensive....

 

Mine is one of many opinions, bout thought I'd share, as it wasn't in the responses you've received so far. YMMV...

 

Dave


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#23 EOengineer

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:11 PM

Dave's journey reminds me of my own, a long one. I'm not going to hash it all out because Dave's experience is pretty consistent with mine.

I have to say I'm very impressed with one of the high gain tones I dialed in today. It is based off the rectifier model, of which I owned and gigged a "real" one for 10 years, and now very well. While I've been openly critical of the version of the rectifier L6 modeled, the tone I've created honestly sounds better than that amp did THROUGH THE PA many nights.

Like I said in this threads opening post, I tried FRFR years ago with an XT Live through a Mackie 450 and it was awful. I'm honestly shocked at how much better this high gain tone is working and feeling.
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#24 EOengineer

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:13 PM

I am, however, struggling to get an AC30 tone that is even usable. The plexi isn't thrilling me either, though I love both through the cans. Any frfr players using these?
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#25 guilhordas

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:50 PM

I am, however, struggling to get an AC30 tone that is even usable. The plexi isn't thrilling me either, though I love both through the cans. Any frfr players using these?


is really difficult to get a good tone with AC30 but the plexi 1959, in my opinion, is the best amp of pod
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#26 robsangg

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:46 AM

Ok, so through this whole discussion, I haven't really heard anyone mention the stagesource speakers, and how they would sound in the whole FRFR setup.  I've been stashing my pennies for some time now in an effort to get the JTV-59P and an L3T for just such a setup(I already own the HD500)..  Anyone here own this 'Dream Rig'?  I would very much like anyone's feedback on how this works in a live environment, ie, playing out live.  I also plan to expand on the L3t setup with another L3 speaker and L3S sub setup for a full on PA system as time goes by. 


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#27 silverhead

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

Stagesource speakers work great. My setup is JTV-59, HD500, Stagescape M20d, 2xL3t, and one L3s.  The setup is very modular - I can bring only the pieces I need depending on whether I'm solo, and the size of the band/venue. For a solo acoustic gig a single L3t works great all alone, with an acoustic guitar and mic. For a duet, both L3t work very well in tandem using the JTV/HD500 combination and with the two onboard mixers supporting mics and acoustic guitars as well. For larger bands including bass and for hosting open mics and jam sessions I add the M20d and the L3s (could use a 2nd L3s!). The various setups are all very quick and easy. Even the larger setups are easy with the M20d.

 

The clarity and quality of the sound is amazing whatever setup I choose.

 

 

.... and nary a guitar amplifier in sight.....


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#28 EOengineer

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:39 PM

Powered speakers for live sound have really come a long way. I've really come to appreciate my RCF, even thinking about getting another. I haven't heard the recent L6 offerings.

I tweaked a pretty nice Park75 tone this evening that seemed to sit somewhere between my plexi, and my recollection of an old roommates jcm800 2204. Really digging the versatility with this rig.
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#29 robsangg

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

Stagesource speakers work great. My setup is JTV-59, HD500, Stagescape M20d, 2xL3t, and one L3s.  The setup is very modular - I can bring only the pieces I need depending on whether I'm solo, and the size of the band/venue. For a solo acoustic gig a single L3t works great all alone, with an acoustic guitar and mic. For a duet, both L3t work very well in tandem using the JTV/HD500 combination and with the two onboard mixers supporting mics and acoustic guitars as well. For larger bands including bass and for hosting open mics and jam sessions I add the M20d and the L3s (could use a 2nd L3s!). The various setups are all very quick and easy. Even the larger setups are easy with the M20d.

 

The clarity and quality of the sound is amazing whatever setup I choose.

 

 

.... and nary a guitar amplifier in sight.....

 

 

Thanks for the response.  Exactly the applications and setup I'm looking to move towards(to many years of long setups, mic'ed amps and less that stellar results).  I'm hoping this will be the solution I'm looking for, cause I love the portability and flexibility of the 500 and the rest of the 'Dream Rig'.  L3t will come shortly and I will post my experience with it.  Thanks again.


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#30 wolbai

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:49 AM

I have played POD X3 Live and later the POD HD500 with a FRFR-system (RCF 310). Since 2011 I migrated to the so called "Dream Rig".

Not promoting anything here: But the "FRFR-system-road" (regardless what FRFR-system you use) cleary means considerable time spending on EQ-ing the FRFR-system to make it sound "right" or get it through the mix in the Band. The simple reason for that is: these FRFR-systems are made for a pretty much wider frequency bandwith than E-guitar rigs are.

Playing the "Dream Rig" (with a DT50 amp as the output system) time spending on tweaking / EQ-ing has been remarkably reduced to me. A lot of the amp sounds just sounds instantly right to me. Never found myself to increase / decrease any frequencies with a Studio EQ, etc. in my presets (the only exception is Acoustic sounds ---> direct to FOH and back to a floor monitor).


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