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Acoustic Tones Via Dream Rig. Is It Possible?

dream rig hd500 m9 jtv variax dt-25

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#1 GeeTah

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:51 PM

We're looking at adding a couple DT-25's to our stage rig and are curious if it's possible to get good acoustic voicing through the DT-25's?

 

Or, is the DT-25 pretty much just an electric guitar amp?

 

We use JTV-59's and do acoustic and electric guitar voicing in the same set (currently run direct to FOH).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

GT


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#2 Tboneous

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

It's not the best! I have done it with my DT 50. I would use channel B and tweak the heck out of it until you get the sound you are looking for. It may help to tweak a few thing on the acoustic model in Workbench. Your best option is to continue to run that signal to the FOH. Much Better! If you don't want to use channel B then I have had some success using the Flattop amp on the HD.

 

Hope this helps


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#3 TheRealZap

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:45 PM

you probably should look at the new LT3 speakers instead... still does the whole dream rig thing via FRFR much better suited for acoustic stuff.


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#4 wolbai

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:00 AM

Acoustic guitars have a wider frequency spectrum than E-guitars. Therefore the amps and their speaker cabs are designed differently to cover the different frequency bandwiths. If you play E-guitar over a FR/FR-system you have to heavily EQ that system so it sounds (a bit) like a guitar amp (mainly by cutting the frequencies below 100HZ and above 6-7 Khz). Especially the frequency range > 6000 Hz is important for Acoustic guitar sound. Normal E-guitar speakers are limited to 6-7 Khz.

If you use a POD HD and if you don't already use the FX-Send for external pedals, you simply can use that FX-Send function.
I am using NO AMP in a POD HD signal chain and some effects like COMP, chorus, some EQs and at the very end of the signal chain it is routed to the FX-loop.

The FX-loop is a stereo device, so you really have stereo sound from the stereo effects you are using and route it to the PA-mixer.
I then route via the FX-Send on the POD HD to the PA-Mixer and back to a RCF-speaker (FR/FR speaker) which is my floor monitor on stage.

On the Mixer you should have then 2 channels and you can pan them nicely in the stereo panorama for your Acoustic sound.
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THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#5 GeeTah

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:43 PM

Thank everyone for the responses/thoughts here. Much appreciated.

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#6 DrFunk

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:59 AM

I agree with what others have said. It is much easier to get a decent acoustic tone from the House PA, or a FR amp. I use a Fishman Loudbox Artist for any acoustics I use now- be it the JTV 69 or my electro-acoustic Martin DC Aura. Acoustics sound much better thru this kind of an amp or the PA. That being said,, I have created a few acoustic tones that I have put on Customtone.com that sound pretty good thru my DT 25 amp, and that can be used in a pinch if you just bring the one Line 6 amp. Of course, I did need to use Three Eq filters to make it close to decent. The preset I call Martin HD28 sounds the best I think.
Try it if you don,t have a good acoustic amp.

As you can see, I use a lot of DSP on the Pod HD 500. I also make a lot of dual path programs using two amps or employing two separate stereo paths. Pretty much I seem to be able to use as much DSP as I want. I say this because I see that Line 6's new Pod HD 500x has more DSP power. When I get a message for the HD 500 that I am out of DSP, I remove simulated amp cabinets if they were used by me.
I also usually use the pre-amp only models not the full amp models as I play thru a DT 25 (line 6 linked), and a Spider Valve Mark II. So my DSP load is lighter. I found that eliminating the cab models usually sounds better too but I wait to remove them when Line 6 tells me That I am out of DSP so I can add more Efx if needed, or at least have extra Efx available on the Pod for that particular preset

Hope this has been a helpful Dream Rig tip for you
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#7 katiekerry

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

I was really disappointed with the dream rig, I actually just kept the HD500 and the JTV59 but returned the amp.  It rendered the acoustic centric tones useless.  Even the electrics sounded bad, could barely tell the difference between models. And in my own personal opinion digitally processed preamps sound horrible running through a tube power section.  Don't get me wrong I love all tube amps but I think digital preamps should just use a solid state power section. I think eventually I will get a L2M.  That has the range to get the full experience of all the guitar tones and amps sounds.


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#8 wolbai

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:47 PM

Not shure if Line6 has mentioned that somewhere in their specs: The DT25/50 is not designed to be an appropriate acoustic guitar output section. This may lead to some kind of disappointment for new users, if they are not aware on that.

But the solutions using the DR with some additional equipment (mainly a FR-PA or FR-active speaker) was pretty simple to me. With the exception of a stereo cable, I had already everything in the Band equipment.


I haven't touched the L2M system from Line6 so far. All I know that you can switch the frequency according to E-guitar and Acoustic-guitar - so this is some kind of automatically EQ-ing which I guess is configurable via a POD HD preset and therefore switchable between presets over the Line6 Link.

But all other FR-systems I have used so far, for ALL the guitar tones (E-guitar and A-guitar) leads from my experience into a more intenisve EQ-ing exercises where the user needs some experience to get - especially the E-guitar - sound good. So this may turn into the same disappointment for some users. Using different output systems normally leads into an instantly "right" sound with little EQ-ing efforts.

(Before I changed to the DR solution, I played a L6 POD X3 Live and then the HD500 with a FR-active monitor system. I have had a hard time with lots of EQ-FX in my signal chain in the presets. Tweaking time has reduced significantly to me since I am using the DT50 for E-guitar and - as I already mentioned - a FR-active monitor (routed to the PA-mixer) for the Acoustic sounds.)

At the very end this discussion moves into that never ending story "whether a FR-system can really cope with a guitar amp for E-guitar sounds or not" (I don't want to stress that now).


katiekerry: "Even the electrics sounded bad, could barely tell the difference between models."

I disagree: my BF Double (= Fender Twin Reverb) or Plexi Lead 100 (= Marshall Plexi Lead 100 Watt) or Treadplate (= Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier) presets sound VERY different and close to the original amps.


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#9 rbastide

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:21 AM

For acoustic sounds using JTV and Pod HD, I found elsewhere in the forums the trick to use the effect loop "send" of the HD to route the signal to a dedicated acoustic amp, with no "return" cable. Strangely enough, using "no amp" on the HD and routing the final HD signal to the acoustic amp produces quite a different (and bad) sound, which can be considered a bug.

 

Although this trick works fine, it actually prevents you from using you HD effect loop for something else, e.g. when using it withe JTV electric models routed to a DT amp.

 

For those of you using JTV, POD HD and StageSource, could you confirm that you can can decent electric AND acoustic sound on the StageSource, and conveniently switch between them without having to fiddle with the HD effects loop ?


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#10 TheRealZap

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

put an A/B switch in your loop, then you can use it for both... it's a better option that not being able to use it.


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#11 bob1474

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:29 AM

Hi- A bit unusual (maybe to some) is that I use a Bose compact system as my "amp" along with my hd500 and various Variax models (mainly an acoustic and electric 700).Since i do both acoustic and electric "shows" in the same gig, so I needed a setup that would handle both without a lot of hassles setting up or tearing down for each style.Can't count how many times i get "what the hell is that". I always have people looking at me strangely, but always complimentary. Yep-it is expensive ( but considering some amps are at the same price point, not so much), but the sounds are reproduced with the Bose EXTREMELY well in both cases, from sublte acoustic to the most insane rock, and really-all your controls for the sound are on your Pod, so the money spent is in pure amplificationi-not pre-amps and fx that you already have! Set up everything "direct" to pa(which in effect is what you are doing), use the Bose direct input and off we go. Volume and clarity is not a problem Line out to the actual pa and your done. I've also ran through a Bose L1 model 2 instead of a compact just for grins, but blood coming from one's ears is not a good thing (kidding about the blood) . Maybe you could take your "dream rig" to a store that has a Bose  (compact) system and have a go at it, don't be suprised if you end up tweaking any E.Q settings you've made back to flat, which IMHO is the best starting point for any sound. I've always run under the assumption that if you have to EQ the crap out of your gear to get it to sound good, something else is wrong somewhere in the system.  Just my thoughts on the subject and NO, I don't have any link to the company. 


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#12 jegler

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:56 PM

If you use a POD HD and if you don't already use the FX-Send for external pedals, you simply can use that FX-Send function.
I am using NO AMP in a POD HD signal chain and some effects like COMP, chorus, some EQs and at the very end of the signal chain it is routed to the FX-loop.

 

SO the fx loop puts out a full bandwidth signal provided one doesn't insert an amp model? cool trick.


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#13 oehman

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:39 PM

I created a 500HD preset to use when I want to use the acoustic through the PA and monitors and mute the signal to the DT25.
All EQ's and a little reverb are before the FX Loop Block, followed by the mixer. The mixer has the volume turned all the way down. That is followed by a noise gate.

When you click on this preset from a preset that has an amp model, the DT25 switches to channel B, but no signal is being sent there. I put the noise gate on just in case DT25 channel B is cranked with a high gain amp. .

The FX send from the 500HD goes to the PA.

I tried it tonight at low volume and I think it works...
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