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#1 bccyminister

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

We purchased the stagescape back in January.  It has been great.   However...We are a small church and two weeks ago in the middle of service all output stopped.  The levels showed we had feed going all the way thru to the outputs but there was nothing coming out.  We are using the main xlrs and all 4 aux.  No audio out of any of them.  Only thing we had was headphones.  I rigged up an old small board on the fly to get us thru the service.  Afterward we plugged and unplugged and all of a sudden it came back.  In the middle of the week I turned on the system and let it run for 6 hours just playing music.  It never failed.  This past sunday morning during practice it cuts out again.  And the sound guy messed around with the outputs and it came back.  I checked the outs in the snake with another board, they are fine.  I have played with the mute buttons and they seem to be functioning well.  I am going to reflash the board and see if that works.  I am a little concerned because i am going to start getting alot of complaints if this continues.  This style of mixer was a little controversial with my sound techs when i bought it.


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

 ...We are using the main xlrs and all 4 aux.  No audio out of any of them.  Only thing we had was headphones....

 

The global extent of this failure, but with its seeming restriction to post-fade functions, makes me suspect some sort of digital control corruption, rather than a hardware fault, although I don't believe we can absolutely rule the latter out at this stage.

 

And these symptoms...

...Afterward we plugged and unplugged and all of a sudden it came back.  In the middle of the week I turned on the system and let it run for 6 hours just playing music.  It never failed.  This past sunday morning during practice it cuts out again.  And the sound guy messed around with the outputs and it came back...

 

...make it seem that such a "digital control" problem only manifests itself when controls are actually being operated, in other words sending digital "instructions" to the various processors involved.

 

Accordingly, I feel that we've very little to lose in trying a total reload of the latest firmware in the hope of effecting a possible "cure".

 

IMPORTANT: Before any such attempt is made, back up any "set-up" and "scene" data that you feel is "vital" to portable media.

 

After the reloading of firmware, extensive testing that uses a full repertoire of control variations, but (most importantly) WITHOUT re-opening any of that "pre-reload" data, will be needed to see whether stability has indeed been restored.

 

If it has, the best course of action would be for further operations to proceed without recourse to your older data, but if such recourse is absolutely necessary, it will become essential to perform very intensive and careful "one set-up at a time" testing of whatever "old" data has been re-imported.

 

That's because the original "glltch" may well have been stored in that old data ...and accordingly, re-imported.

 

Should that prove to be so, further "start from scratch" reloads may allow the painstaking identification of the faulty item (or those items) residing in your old software, with a view to subsequently "quarantining" or discarding it (or them).  


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#3 rssouthw

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

How sensitive is the m20d to dirty power or line voltage fluctuations?    I've noticed that a lot of other digital equipment I have, a small UPS to filter the power and provide low line voltage protection goes a long way to stability of the use.   I'm wondering if that sort of thing could be happening in this case?

 

-Roger


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#4 RonMarton

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

Your preference for a guaranteed constant source of "clean" power accords exactly with mine, Roger...

 

...But from your description, I strongly feel that "dirty" or interrupted power is most unlikely to be implicated in the specific problems you've suffered, as boot-up failures and/or "frozen" controls (and/or displays) are the more common results of such power problems. 


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#5 rssouthw

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:44 PM

Gear Head - Sorry, I'm not the one who posted the original problem.... just thought I'd jump in with an observation/question about power... -Roger


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#6 RonMarton

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:01 PM

My mistake, actually, Roger...

 

Your great "happy snap" should have alerted me to that post not having come from the original enquirer.

 

Nonetheless, not only was your point well made, but also may well have helped others, ...as many of us often overlook the mains as a possible source of much audio grief, including "splats", "hums", "crackles" and "whines".

 

So your contribution was welcome, as I'm sure your future ones will be.

 

Keep "fighting the good fight" and (above all) keep smiling !

 

RON.


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#7 case67

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:08 AM

>How sensitive is the m20d to dirty power or line voltage fluctuations?

I can not tell you because i use a Furman M-10x E  power-conditioner to avoid any power-line related issues.

Seems to work as i have no problems.

 

Kind regards,

 case67


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#8 dreadlocks

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:02 AM

Hello, I just came to the forum to check to see it anyone else had the output problem.  I work on a cruise ship, and twice last month the m20d behaved precisely the way bccyminister described. I've just returned and have been contemplating returning the unit, but decided to check first to see if this was a common problem.  I was also wondering if the problem could have occurred because of the ship's electricity which I'm sure is not the most constant or stable.  This has happened only twice - the unit behaves exceptionally well otherwise, but I've got to admit I'm kinda scared now everytime I play - praying and keeping my fingers crossed that my M20d doesn't embarrass me again.  I will try the suggestions listed above and report my findings.


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#9 dreadlocks

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:05 AM

I also wondered if the limiter on the output could have been the culprit. Any thoughts there? Since I've turned off the limiter, I haven't had the issue repeat, but I can't say that that has anything to do with it as this happened only twice and I have no way of testing if this could be the reason.


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#10 RonMarton

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:45 PM

...I was also wondering if the problem could have occurred because of the ship's electricity which I'm sure is not the most constant or stable...

 

 

...I also wondered if the limiter on the output could have been the culprit. Any thoughts there? Since I've turned off the limiter, I haven't had the issue repeat...

 

Two issues well worth raising, dreadlocks...

 

My "good news" response to the first would be that almost any "in survey" vessel that's properly accredited for passenger transport these days is highly likely to be providing frequency-locked, stable and clean "pure sine wave" AC power that's superior to, rather than merely equal to, the mains that's available ashore.

 

This is largely because of the staggering amount of digital technology that such vessels typically have embedded in their own systems for communication, navigation and thrust management, to name but three among countless others.

 

So I feel that the mains power-supply still seems to be an unlikely contributor to the problem,

 

...HOWEVER...

 

Your second valuable observation may possibly point to a "glitch" that's related to the limiter, which may well prove to be a vital "clue" for Line 6's firmware "detectives". 


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