Anyone Having Trouble With Tuning On Their JTV-89F?

[robbieb61]

I've had trouble with it since the beginning.

Wouldn't seem to stay in tune, which is weird for a "floyd rose" type trem.

Also noticed that no mat​​ter what I did the low "E" and "A" strings would go sharp by almost a full step when I tightened the locking nut down and the high "E" and "B" would somehow go flat!

I finally got tired of it and got out the old metal file and did some work on the nut and got it a bit better.

Then I went ahead and ordered an R10 size locking nut from Floyd Rose.

It got here yesterday. First thing I noticed when I took the nut off the JTV was that it was damn near "hollow" and weighed almost nothing next to the Floyd nut. What I mean by "hollow" is that it only is solid in the "middle", it has the outer edges of the bottom sticking out for the correct height. So right away you're not getting full contact with the entire nut!

Once I replaced the crappy nut that came with the guitar and put the real Floyd nut on it...the tuning problem is gone. What a joy to tune now! And it stays in tune as well.

I tuned it up, clamped the locking nuts down and only had to tweak the fine tuners just slightly...the way it's supposed to be.

Just wanted to give my experience on this in case anyone else is having the same problem with a defective nut. Just get the Floyd Rose "Pro" series locking nut size R10 and your problems are solved.
 

[ZenBalancer]

I've had trouble with it since the beginning.

 

Wouldn't seem to stay in tune, which is weird for a "floyd rose" type trem.

 

Also noticed that no mat​​ter what I did the low "E" and "A" strings would go sharp by almost a full step when I tightened the locking nut down and the high "E" and "B" would somehow go flat!

 

I finally got tired of it and got out the old metal file and did some work on the nut and got it a bit better.

 

...

 

Here is where the inherent limitation of the Floyd Rose design became apparent to me, with my short but relevant experience with 5 JTV-89Fs of which 4 are returned back to the (guitar) shop.

 

EDIT#?: This reply started as well intended feedback for you, but since it was based on partial read of your post, my reply became an overview for newbies, myself among them. Not many around here, but with the Variax Standard (2015) I'm guessing Yamaha Line 6 is trying also to change that, if they claim it could become the only guitar one would ever need.

 

1. Only use the tuning machines for big winds (new string installation), or drop tuning physically if temporarily or for whatever reason preferred over Model Alternate Tuning

 

2. After you lock the Nut side (if it wasn't, or you physically drop tuned heavily) of the Floyd Rose guitar neck, you should use the Fine Tuners (a super feature of the design I found out after I got the 3rd one [irrelevant for the reasons I sent the 4 back]) see the position of the Floyd Rose Fine Tuners:

 

- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Floyd_rose_pro_parts.jpg

 

(What this overview misses, is the adjustable string height section; makes changing the height easy, it is a definite plus for me)

 

English:

 

• Saddle — A metal box the string is locked into. There is one saddle for each string, hence six for the standard 6-string guitars, and seven for 7-string guitars. Each saddle contains a long screw that fixes the string holder block inside it. An Allen wrench is required to loosen or tighten these.
• String Holder Block or Saddle Block — A cube-shaped metal block that presses the string end into the saddle wall thus locking it tight.
• Intonation Screws — Screws that hold saddles on the base plate; when loose, the saddles can be moved forward and backward, effectively changing intonation of a string. An Allen wrench is required to loosen or tighten these.
• Fine Tuners — Screws that are used to fine-tune strings instead of the machine heads which cannot be used after the nut has locked the strings at the neck. It can be rotated with bare hands.
• Tremolo Arm — The most visible part of mechanism, a handle that can be used to change played notes pitch up and down during play.
• Nut — A string clamp, installed as the "zero fret" at the neck. It has screws and braces called "locks" to clamp on the strings that run through it. An Allen wrench is required to loosen or tighten the nut.
• String Retainer — A metal bar installed at headstock to retain strings that go to the machine heads.
• Springs — Springs that pull the bridge downward around the pivot point, balancing the string tension. They are installed into a cavity that is usually accessible from behind the guitar body and is hidden under plastic cover. There are usually 3 springs. However, to change the resistance of arm to more comfortable one, some guitarists may use anything from 1 to 5 springs.
• Spring Claw Hook — A connector between the guitar body and springs. It has special "claws" to attach the springs to. This part is usually mounted to the guitar body using long screws that can be adjusted to change the tension of springs and thus re-balance the whole tremolo system.
• Allen wrenches — Three sizes are usually supplied with the tremolo. The smallest is used for intonation screws; the mid-sized wrench is used for fixing screws on saddle blocks and the largest is for nut screws. Floyd Rose Licensed systems usually supplies and uses only two sizes of wrenches as their variation uses the same size for the screws on the saddle blocks and nut. However, on some models only need the first two, as the bridge and nut screws are the same size.

3. ACCEPT THE FACT; (EDIT#?: I thought, and still makes sense to me, if no one gives more specific feedback how it's supposed to work)

that because of the Tremolo (even though truly Precision System) it seems physically very difficult to have ALL the strings physically in tune SIMULTANEOUSLY even if Fine Tuning each one individually for hours! Because, as you Fine Tune one, some others become slightly b/Flat often because the bridge pullback force is taken over most by that particular string, sometimes the others become slightly #/Sharp, never the actual b/Flat or #/Sharp note, just slightly. BUT I realized, that as I fret to test notes, they're mostly on the #/Sharp side, even though the string I'm using is on un-fretted strumming/pick slightly b/Flat. That's in retrospect physically logical, because I'm increasing the tension when I press the string down. So for instance on the 12th/2dots/~middle fret of the guitar, if the string is originally/non-fretted (slightly) b/Flat, it will be perfectly in tune on the supposed note on that fret.

 

So I've my peace with the fact that it won't ever be perfect, non-fretted and especially fretted dependinhg on the fret location, but that it will remain in tune I had it physically at, despite using the Tremolo Arm to the max, and that's the main feat of the Floyd Rose licensee Gragh Tech one, plus its other mechanical conveniences. The combination with the Variax Modelling and Alternate Tuning allows so much more freedom while having the best features of it always there to make the experience much better rather than being limited by its limitations for a big set of use-cases.

 

4. If you're referencing also any kind of Alternate Tuning ambiguity despite that particular string being perfectly in tune, THAT my friend, seems a bigger story, and I will elaborate my part later, because I'm, really, really, really tired.

 

 

...

 

Then I went ahead and ordered an R10 size locking nut from Floyd Rose.

 

It got here yesterday. First thing I noticed when I took the nut off the JTV was that it was damn near "hollow" and weighed almost nothing next to the Floyd nut. What I mean by "hollow" is that it only is solid in the "middle", it has the outer edges of the bottom sticking out for the correct height. So right away you're not getting full contact with the entire nut!

 

Once I replaced the crappy nut that came with the guitar and put the real Floyd nut on it...the tuning problem is gone. What a joy to tune now! And it stays in tune as well.

 

I tuned it up, clamped the locking nuts down and only had to tweak the fine tuners just slightly...the way it's supposed to be.

 

Just wanted to give my experience on this in case anyone else is having the same problem with a defective nut. Just get the Floyd Rose "Pro" series locking nut size R10 and your problems are solved.

 

5. If my experience is wrong, and the physical tuning issue is actually caused by the Graph Tech (Floyd Rose licensee) specific Nut 'design'/production (used) for the JTV-89F (Yamaha) Line 6 guitar, then I'm disappointed. And even more disheartened with the tech. But I will work with the status quo of this guitar. I'm not going pro anyway; I've a different motivation.

 

 

EDITs: grammar improvement + content correction + clarity.

Edited August 29, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[sdre9096]

I've had trouble with it since the beginning.

 

Wouldn't seem to stay in tune, which is weird for a "floyd rose" type trem.

 

Also noticed that no mat​​ter what I did the low "E" and "A" strings would go sharp by almost a full step when I tightened the locking nut down and the high "E" and "B" would somehow go flat!

 

I finally got tired of it and got out the old metal file and did some work on the nut and got it a bit better.

 

Then I went ahead and ordered an R10 size locking nut from Floyd Rose.

 

It got here yesterday. First thing I noticed when I took the nut off the JTV was that it was damn near "hollow" and weighed almost nothing next to the Floyd nut. What I mean by "hollow" is that it only is solid in the "middle", it has the outer edges of the bottom sticking out for the correct height. So right away you're not getting full contact with the entire nut!

 

Once I replaced the crappy nut that came with the guitar and put the real Floyd nut on it...the tuning problem is gone. What a joy to tune now! And it stays in tune as well.

 

I tuned it up, clamped the locking nuts down and only had to tweak the fine tuners just slightly...the way it's supposed to be.

 

Just wanted to give my experience on this in case anyone else is having the same problem with a defective nut. Just get the Floyd Rose "Pro" series locking nut size R10 and your problems are solved.

 

Finding the tuning less than stellar myself. Was the install easy? Just two screws right?

[robbieb61]

Yes, just make sure you get the R10 nut from the Floyd Rose site.

[Rewolf48]

3. ACCEPT THE FACT; (EDIT#?: I thought, and still makes sense to me, if no one gives more specific feedback how it's supposed to work)

that because of the Tremolo (even though truly Precision System) it seems physically very difficult to have ALL the strings physically in tune SIMULTANEOUSLY even if Fine Tuning each one individually for hours! Because, as you Fine Tune one, some others become slightly b/Flat often because the bridge pullback force is taken over most by that particular string, sometimes the others become slightly #/Sharp, never the actual b/Flat or #/Sharp note, just slightly. BUT I realized, that as I fret to test notes, they're mostly on the #/Sharp side, even though the string I'm using is on un-fretted strumming/pick slightly b/Flat. That's in retrospect physically logical, because I'm increasing the tension when I press the string down. So for instance on the 12th/2dots/~middle fret of the guitar, if the string is originally/non-fretted (slightly) b/Flat, it will be perfectly in tune on the supposed note on that fret.

 

So I've my peace with the fact that it won't ever be perfect, non-fretted and especially fretted dependinhg on the fret location, but that it will remain in tune I had it physically at, despite using the Tremolo Arm to the max, and that's the main feat of the Floyd Rose licensee Gragh Tech one, plus its other mechanical conveniences. The combination with the Variax Modelling and Alternate Tuning allows so much more freedom while having the best features of it always there to make the experience much better rather than being limited by its limitations for a big set of use-cases.

 

It is possible to have 12th fret fretted and open (12th fret harmonic) perfectly in tune - this is what the Intonation adjustment is for, but it is difficult to maintain perfect tuning across all strings all the time with a floyd because bending one string sharp will flatten the others.

 

I suggest reviewing instructions such as this one for setting up a guitar with a Floyd Rose:

 

[cruisinon2]

It is possible to have 12th fret fretted and open (12th fret harmonic) perfectly in tune - this is what the Intonation adjustment is for, but it is difficult to maintain perfect tuning across all strings all the time with a floyd because bending one string sharp will flatten the others.

 

This is true for any guitar with a floating bridge (which is why I can't stand them), it's not a Floyd-specific problem. I suppose if you never do any double-stop bends, it might be less of an issue for you, but it drives me nuts.

[Rewolf48]

I have a Patrick Eggle Los Angeles with the Locking Wilkinson Trem where if the arm is free it locks into a stop on the backplate, but when the arm is moved into normal holding position it floats.  It does mean that you can have quite a light trem action when you want it and a fixed bridge when you don't.  Unfortunately it was stopped after a few years due to some design infringement even though the holder to the rights isn't allowing it to be manufactured.

 

Some of the trem stabilisers can help, but from reports they effect the feel as you pass through the midpoint and kill the warble effect you get by flicking the arm.  Personally I go with floating and lean on the bridge with my hand when I need to bend a long way or sometimes just as an effect.  

[sdre9096]

http://www.beyondeleven.com/Floyd-Rose-FRNR10BP-p/frnr10bp.htm

 

This one correct? 

[robbieb61]

http://www.floydrose.com/catalog/parts/pro-series/locking-nut

That's the one

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