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How To Mute The Pa But Not The Monitor?


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#1 tochiro

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 10:58 PM

Hi,

 

I would like to mute the PA without turning down the big volume rotary knob.  Is that possible?  Thank you.

 

Cheers


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:03 AM

That's an unusual request, tochiro, as most folks generally want either silence in the room, (the "Mute All" button) or everything muted except for the replay of "warm up" or "background" material (the "Mute Mics" button).

I'm thinking that the easiest way to achieve what you're after would be to make and save an appropriately labelled "Scene" that has its inputs routed only to those outputs you want to keep "live".


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#3 KeefPilchards

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:38 AM

You mean to soundcheck the monitors with the front of house muted?  Seems like a fairly common scenario to me.

 

Sound guys do this fairly often I find (ie when I'm being sound-checked in my own band).  I'm not sure how they achieve it on standard mixers though, other than pulling the main faders down.  I can see how this would be a bit cumbersome with the rotary knob...


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#4 tochiro

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:31 AM

You mean to soundcheck the monitors with the front of house muted?

Yes that's what I want to achieve.


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#5 RonMarton

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:59 PM

You mean to soundcheck the monitors with the front of house muted?  Seems like a fairly common scenario to me.

 

Sound guys do this fairly often I find (ie when I'm being sound-checked in my own band).  I'm not sure how they achieve it on standard mixers though, other than pulling the main faders down.  I can see how this would be a bit cumbersome with the rotary knob...

 

It's  quite easy for us "sound guys" to achieve this with most rigs, but that ease comes at the "price" of those rigs being much bulkier (often more than100kg/220lbs heavier) than an M20d.

 

Very often it's simply a matter of keeping our channel faders down as our auxiliary "monitor sends" are generally pre-fader. Another common practice is for the main FOH to be driven via a "downstream" outboard rack containing the "room" equaliser and crossover system, either or both of which provide logical points for muting the house while leaving the full mixing desk running.

 

My feeling is that the M20d was specifically created for the majority of performers who simply don't have either the luxury of a sound crew, or the time to actually run those comprehensive sound checks.  

 

Nevertheless, I still feel that the easiest way to get the same "result" from the M20d would probably be to create an appropriately labelled "Scene", (say "FOH Muted", "Monitors Only" or "Monitor Check") in which we've "un-linked" our monitor level controls from their channel level controls, ...those channel level controls having been temporarily "closed" for precisely this purpose.


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#6 KeefPilchards

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

Maybe I don't fully understand how scenes work yet then. I thought monitor levels etc were saved as part of the scene, so that any changes you made in your "FOH Muted" scene wouldn't be automatically be carried over to your "FOH unmuted" scene?  

 

Is it possible to have two scenes linked together so that the only difference between them is the channel levels?  If so, this would be a good way to go.

 

On a related point, I would hope to use scenes purely for accessing specific effects setups for different songs.  I'd want to keep all the core settings (channel levels, EQ, dynamic processing, pan, monitor levels etc) identical and linked across all scenes.  Do you know if that's possible to do?  I haven't tried this yet, as I'm really still trying to get to grips with more basic stuff at this stage!   :D


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#7 RonMarton

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:13 PM

Maybe I don't fully understand how scenes work yet then. I thought monitor levels etc were saved as part of the scene, so that any changes you made in your "FOH Muted" scene wouldn't be automatically be carried over to your "FOH unmuted" scene?  

 

Is it possible to have two scenes linked together so that the only difference between them is the channel levels?  If so, this would be a good way to go...

 

As far as I can make out, your understanding is "spot on", KeefPilchards...

 

...And (if you haven't already) you might like to also check out this discussion http://line6.com/sup...ups-and-scenes/, in particular the concise explanation from ArneLine6 near its end.

 

Back to this discussion...

 

It'll never be "perfect", but the "work around" I'm proposing involves switching between two scenes that are effectively identical, aside from their individual configuration of monitor sends.

 

As you've anticipated, it would mean first "trying" a proposed monitor adjustment in the "FOH Muted" version before saving it to both that scene and our "neck top computer".

 

We'd then switch back to our "Live" or "FOH Unmuted" version to re-create and subsequently save the change we've just tried and remembered.

 

...On a related point, I would hope to use scenes purely for accessing specific effects setups for different songs.  I'd want to keep all the core settings (channel levels, EQ, dynamic processing, pan, monitor levels etc) identical and linked across all scenes.  Do you know if that's possible to do?  I haven't tried this yet, as I'm really still trying to get to grips with more basic stuff at this stage!   :D

 

While there's nothing to keep set parameters actually "linked across all scenes", that's pretty much how they're designed to be used.

 

It's often hard for us "old analog jockeys" to get our heads around the way every setting on the board is stored exactly as it was at the moment we  hit "save", so (in practice) it's only those parameters we've changed that will differ when we recall successively stored scenes.

 

Other manufacturers of digital audio control systems often use the term "snapshot" to describe this.


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#8 tochiro

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

Ok thank you.  Creating another scene is a possibility.  It's not instantaneous but it works. 

 

IMO it would be nice to have the same possibility with the FOH as we have to mute the monitors, ie pressing on the monitor button in the Monitor strip.


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#9 RonMarton

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:02 AM

...IMO it would be nice to have the same possibility with the FOH as we have to mute the monitors, i.e. pressing on the monitor button in the Monitor strip.

 

I reckon that's a FABULOUS idea, tochiro !

 

It would take some development, but I can't see why the equally (if not even more) fabulous Line 6 "boffins" couldn't fashion some such "new button" that might appear with an upgrade of the M20d's firmware. 


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#10 Digital-sound

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:51 PM

Seems like it would be much easier to just turn the main volume. I do t that way, and just note the level it was at so I can return it to that level.

I also have mute buttons on my driverackPA+ which allows me to mute the front end as Ron mentioned way up above with outborad gear.

But I think if creating another scene is the only work around for now, it would be much simpler to note the dB level of the main volume and spin it down, check, and return. Almost as easy as pressing a button. About 3seconds slower in my test.
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