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POD HD500x dangers from speakers to PA system


ivsaken
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Well I've purchased an HD500x for an upcoming audition to not have to lug my amp over there (they use HD500's as well). Being I just moved to this from a bean POD XT I'm already pretty impressed.

 

I'm currently trying to dial in sounds running through my computer speakers and I am wondering if there are any setting changes needed to run this through a board into a PA. Also, what dangers I might encounter for how different it may sound. 

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The difference will be in the PA and computer's speakers ability to accurate reproduce a flat sound.  If you mean studio monitors (even cheaper ones) on you computer to a good PA. There will be some differences but it will likely not be huge ones.  Just will need some adjustment.  If you using actually computer speakers then the differences could be pretty big.  

 

The other thinks to watch for as well is the differences in volume. The PA, if you playing with a band will likely be much louder which will affect the amount of bass you hear.  This is normal even on a normal amp once you ramp up volume. The other of course which is not really specific to the POD but just generally what sounds good stand alone doesn't always sound good in a full band mix. Sometimes people like to blame that on the POD but it's really just over all tone mixing ability and knowledge.

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The difference will be in the PA and computer's speakers ability to accurate reproduce a flat sound.  If you mean studio monitors (even cheaper ones) on you computer to a good PA. There will be some differences but it will likely not be huge ones.  Just will need some adjustment.  If you using actually computer speakers then the differences could be pretty big.  

 

The other thinks to watch for as well is the differences in volume. The PA, if you playing with a band will likely be much louder which will affect the amount of bass you hear.  This is normal even on a normal amp once you ramp up volume. The other of course which is not really specific to the POD but just generally what sounds good stand alone doesn't always sound good in a full band mix. Sometimes people like to blame that on the POD but it's really just over all tone mixing ability and knowledge.

Thank you for that. Unfortunately they are THX computer speakers with a sub, so I'm HOPING it wont be so drastic I cant fix up the tone a little when I'm setting up. On all my patches so far the bass is pretty much off on the amps. I guess i really need to learn to change this thing on the fly from the pedal rather than the PC to prepare myself. Thanks for the advice. 

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You will have to tweak the patches some.. but shouldn't be too bad. Our old friend the "Fletcher-Munson Curve" comes in to play. In short:

 

At low listening volumes, mid range frequencies sound more prominent, while the low and high frequency ranges seem to be lacking.

At high listening volumes, the lows and highs sound more prominent, while the mid range seems a bit relaxed.

 

If you can, the best thing to tweak your patches... thru your PA BEFORE the bad get's there. Or if you have your own FRFR rig (I use the Alto TS10As), try to get your patches tweaked thru them - at as loud a level as you can... without pissing of the neighbors/partner/spouse of course.

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You will have to tweak the patches some.. but shouldn't be to bad. Our old friend the "Fletcher-Munson Curve" comes in to play. In short:

 

At low listening volumes, mid range frequencies sound more prominent, while the low and high frequency ranges seem to be lacking.

At high listening volumes, the lows and highs sound more prominent, while the mid range seems a bit relaxed.

 

If you can, the best thing to tweak your patches... thru your PA BEFORE the bad get's there. Or if you have your own FRFR rig (I use the Alto TS10As), try to get your patches tweaked thru them - at as loud a level as you can... without pissing of the neighbors/partner/spouse of course.

Great advice there.  I just bought the Alto TS112A - sounds great.

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For anyone that come across this thread please do see the comment made above. This is a lesson learned for myself too to dial in these patches while connected to the PA else it going to sound almost nothing like what you've set up at home. Even with the bass cut almost off it was just too much and everything needed to be backed down quite a bit. This really only affected hi gain channels as the clean sounded great!

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For many its just not possible to dial in patches with the PA because we only have access to it at church, once or twice a month.  I could go in early for a rehearsal but I'd want to take my laptop since editing on the POD itself is a pain.   At home I use a quality stereo system as my monitor and try to crank it up while playing along with a youtube recording of the song by the original band.

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One of the tricks I use for this situation is I have a powered PA speaker that I use to develop my patches at home.  In my case I use a Yamaha DXR12 set to the monitor position which helps reduce the bass response from accumulated low frequencies when set on the floor as a monitor.  What you're really trying to accomplish is pushing the setup through a full range flat response system.  That's where most of the surprises come from.  The vast majority of stereo speakers have some coloration added to the tone as do headsets which is necessary for a good sound on commercially recorded tracks but can really throw your tone off significantly once you go direct into a PA.

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DunedInDragon, what did you mean by "monitor position."  Laying on its side?  I have an 

Alto Professional TS112A powered speaker which is standing up vertically sitting on the hard wood floor of my bedroom and I only briefly tried it as a POD monitor.  Didn't like the way it sounded compared to the stereo system which is sitting up on a shelf six feet off the floor.
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I'm referring to when the monitor is laying on it's side in a standard floor monitor wedge position, but I suspect you'd get something of the same effect if it was standing up on the floor.  The DXR12 monitor has a switch that corrects the bass loading that occurs in this scenario.  All powered monitors have this same effect, but you typically have to correct it via the tone knobs on the speaker itself.  It may be similar to the contour button you have on the Alto, but I'm not sure.  You have to be a little sensitive when doing this type of thing because powered monitors act more like a PA system and you can get fooled if you're outside of it's cone of projection.  I try and keep about 10 feet away from the monitor and more or less centered on it's sound cone.

 

Regardless I would imagine it might sound a bit different from your stereo speakers as stereo speakers aren't really FRFR type speakers.  That's why I build my patches on the monitor so that I don't get surprised by the sound that comes out of the FOH live system.  It tends to match up a lot better.  I also use that same Yamaha monitor for my guitar stage monitor so I get a pretty true representation of what the audience is hearing.

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For many its just not possible to dial in patches with the PA because we only have access to it at church, once or twice a month.  I could go in early for a rehearsal but I'd want to take my laptop since editing on the POD itself is a pain.   At home I use a quality stereo system as my monitor and try to crank it up while playing along with a youtube recording of the song by the original band.

 

That's one of the reasons I ended up eventually getting a DT25. The tone is pretty consistant except normal ramp up of bass etc... with volume changes,m like you do working with any amp. I like the real tubes too, just changes the tones in a way I like. Even with it, I have worked up a dozen patches that I have slowed adjusted over rehersals and shows to get me to tone I like. I don't mess with them EQ wise at home much because I know I will just mess them up and once they are in context and have to slowly retweak it again.

Nothing wrong with FRFR, I did that before too, but you will just have to try to make adjustments on the fly to make it sound right until you get it fully dialed in. If you using for P&W in the same church over and over then you should be able to get a select set of patches worked to that PA over a bit of time. If you going from PA to PA at differnet places, I would carry my own FRFR or Amp and tell them just to mic it. Too many inconsistances from one PA to the next. Tried using mine in different PAs with patches I had worked up for FRFR before and it just didn't work.  Working directly on the POD is not horrible, you just got to get used to it. It's not as quite but it's do-able.

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Setting the powered speaker on its side, on a chair, and listening from across the room as I played sounded better.  The stereo speakers are Paradigms but I'll just use those for mp3 playback when testing patches against a song.   I always play in the same church and we aren't allowed floor monitors or amps ( IEM ) but I can get to rehearsal early enough and use a longer guitar cable to do some checking.   Thought about a wireless guitar rig but things are complicated enough for now.

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It's probably just as well that you decided against wireless.  I was using wireless on my previous setup but I dumped it once I started using the FRFR style setup.  The dynamics and frequency response was really limited compared to a direct plug in.  I didn't notice it so much when I was using a normal guitar amp, but then those cabinets and speakers are pretty limited on their own so the difference wasn't very noticeable.

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Setting the powered speaker on its side, on a chair, and listening from across the room as I played sounded better.  The stereo speakers are Paradigms but I'll just use those for mp3 playback when testing patches against a song.   I always play in the same church and we aren't allowed floor monitors or amps ( IEM ) but I can get to rehearsal early enough and use a longer guitar cable to do some checking.   Thought about a wireless guitar rig but things are complicated enough for now.

 

They don't have iso cab somewhere you could put the powered speaker?  I get not wanting amps with a IEM setup, but most that have that setup use amps off stage somewhere for electric guitars. You will get it, just will take some time working on it as much as you can within the time given.

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I reallly suspect now that you've worked out getting the TS112A working at home you shouldn't have much problem once you plug in at church.  Just ask the sound tech to give you a flat EQ and a hi-pass filter on your channel and I imagine it's going to be pretty close to what you set at home.  This isn't Indian Rocks Baptist in Clearwater by chance is it?

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