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Hd500x + L2t Correct Settings

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#1 Luigo69

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:03 PM

Hello,

Please help me figure what it the best way to configure this setup.

 

This is what I have:

 

Variax JTV69 - HD500X - L2t

 

These are my Questions:

 

1.- What would be the optimum output mode on the HD500X when using with the L2t?

      - Studio/Direct?

      - should I always use the PRE amp models?

 

2.- What would be the optimum speaker mode on the L2t  when using with the HD500X?

     - Does the L2t auto select the speaker mode depending on the preset? it auto selects Electric guitar 

     - Are this speaker modes able to be saved in the HD500X presets?

 

3.- What would be the best Speaker mode of the L2t when using the Variax acoustic models thru the HD500?

     - How can I Best reproduce or send this sound thru the FOH?

 

Your opinion and advice will be Greatly appreciated.

 

 


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#2 pugdealer

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:30 PM

1 - The best results would be in Studio/direct. That's the best way to reproduce the sounds on the POD. I should not use PRE amp models...you may, if that's the sound you're after, but normally the tones people look for rely on full amp modeling, so that's what you should use, unless, like I said, the PRE amp sound gets you the tone you're really after. It's not a rule, just a matter of personal taste. Normally, Line 6 recommends using the PRE amp models when using a DT amp, cause the amp will do the power amp stage of the modeling, but when going straight to the PA or an L2 or L3 that doesn't apply.

 

2 - As of now (that I know of), the POD won't control the modes on the L2/L3 systems, so I'd say it would depend on the sounds you use. If you only use electric sounds, than you should probably put it in "electric guitar" mode, BUT, if you also use the acoustic sounds, then you should leave it in PA mode, cause the acoustic sounds wouldn't sound as good if in "electric guitar" mode. I use an L3t and I always keep it in PA mode.

 

3 - Like I said before, if you're using both electric and acoustic sounds, leave it PA mode. When (and if) the POD will be able to control the modes on the L2/L3, then you'll be able to have it in "electric guitar" mode when playing electric, and "acoustic" when playing acoustic sounds just by the touch of a button on the POD :)


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#3 Rowbi

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:43 PM

Actually L6 suggest using combo power amp output mode and electric guitar amp mode on the pod and speaker respectively.

Connect them together with a l6link cable and they will both change those settings automatically.

You can change to PA and studio direct but I would the recommended settings good
On my hd500 and l3m and l3t.
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#4 Rowbi

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

Additional:
In point 3, yes you may therefore want PA
Mode if using an acoustic model, but it would still work in guitar amp mode
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#5 rubytopaz

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:16 PM

I have a massive Vetta hd setup ( http://www.rubytopaz.com/gear.htm) with four cabinets and two pa speakers (stereo wet/dry setup) that I use live and in the studio (I also have a smaller vetta combo with two 2x12 cabs for smaller gigs). Love line 6! I recently traded my POD HD 500 for the 500x. I'm using it in the studio with two DT50 heads (L6 Link) and two 4x12 cabs...way too loud! After seeing the video on youtube, I purchased an L2t that will arrive tomorrow. I have been searching everywhere (manuals for both 500x and L2t, line 6 website and forum, google search) and I can't find optimal setup instructions anywhere. If this is supposed one of the "dream rigs," why isn't there any literature on it. I want to use full models, with mic and air, via L6 link. I can't find the info. This page was the only one I found addressing it. You stated that Line 6 suggests using combo power amp setting. Where would I find that info? Thanks
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#6 rubytopaz

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:23 PM

It's a moot point. I got my L2t. I tried it with the L6 link, combo-power amp and electric guitar. I did not like it at all. It sounded thin, small and boxy. I got two xlr cords and came out of the left and right outs of my POD HD500x into channels one and two of the L2t and set it to reference PA. It sounded...AWESOME! Big, fat, detailed and responsive. Love it. I'm thinking of getting another and going stereo and, when I need to do a small thing, take my GR55 guitar synth and adding that. Using two amp models at once in a patch is the closest I've come to sounding like my Vetta rig(no cigar, but definitely the closest I've come replicating my sound in a small pckage). If only they would add a 53 tweed Deluxe and a Marshall with a Variax, I'd be there.
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#7 Rowbi

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 10:01 PM

Did you remember to change the amp model too? With combo power amp and electric guitar you would need pre amp models on the pod. The. With reference PA and studio direct you would want full amp models. I was shocked by how much low end I got with an L3t using combo power amp and electric guitar amp mode, so I wonder if there's something you missed.

You can also use l6link for both though. Although both units auto set with L6link, you can manually change them to studio direct and reference and still use L6Link if you want.

at the end of the day let your ears decide.
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#8 Luigo69

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:37 AM

Thank you Rowbi for responding to my questions, I was experimenting a little more with this setup before posting again and I still not get it, I am using the L6Link from the HD500X with full amps and in Studio/Direct mode to the L2t in PA-Reference mode and it sounds thin, small and boxy.. I want to try the setup method mentioned by RubyTopaz but doing that how will I sent a signal to the FOH Mixer, besides, there must be a way to make this sound right, there is something I am missing here..

 

I do Own a DT25 AMP, but the only reason I got the L2t is because I wanted to be able to use one simple setup and be able to get the acoustic sounds from my Variax as well.


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#9 Rowbi

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:14 AM

Have you edited the preset at all or are you using a stock preset? Does your preset (stock or otherwise) sound good when you use another amplification method (DT, or headphones perhaps)?
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#10 Luigo69

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:25 AM

Well I am glad you ask that question, I started using stock presets from the HD500X thru the DT25 and it sounds really good! but when I modify a preset I like to use with the L2t, the only thing I change is the pre amp model to a Full amp model.

Another thing I noticed is that my HD500X is always auto changing the output mode to Combo stack Mode, when I try to save it as Studio Direct.


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#11 Rowbi

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:46 AM

So it sounds like you're taking a preset that sounds good on one rig, just changin it to full amp model and not re tweaking it is probably the issue.

You usually need to tweak a preset if you make a significant change.

Have you tried other amp models, and tweaking the EQ of the amp model to help it sound better.
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#12 Luigo69

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:00 AM

Ok no, I have tried to re tweak existing presets and tried creating new from scratch, I am sure my settings are off somewhere.

 

But just to recap, so I can play with it some more:

 

- I should be using Full Amps with a cab..

- Studio Direct mode output mode from HD500X

- PA/Reference mode on L2t

 

Right?

 

Another question,

.. How does my HD500X knows it is linked to the L2t?


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#13 Rowbi

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

Yes that's right if you also need to use your Variax as an acoustic.

Line6Link was designed by Line6. It carries audio and control information. Some of that includes info about what devices are communicating. So when a pod hd500x and l2t are connected they know how they should best configure themselves. I know that doesn't agree with the settings you're trying to use, but perhaps there should have been additional logic to understand if a Variax is involved and configure differently.

I don't remember about the other settings, but have you got the line/amp switched to line (near the exp pedal on the pod)? And is your master vol on the pod somewhere around 50-75%

Also have you tried turning off all FX and just using a full amp model with cab, and getting that tweaked on its own without any other FX?
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#14 mauritzSA

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:27 AM

I use full amp and cab on Pod Hd500 with combo power amp on global settings running through Electric amp mode on L2t using the L6 connection. I haven't found a way to switch modes on L2t using Pod editing software, but if you switch modes manually on speaker and then saving it directly on the Pod, it recalls them when switching presets. The only problem for me is that using my JTV's acoustic mods sound best using the acoustic preset on the L2t and Studio/Direct on Pod, but can't switch to Combo power amp in the global section by simply switching presets. It sounds boomy when in Combo power amp mode.


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#15 rubytopaz

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 06:16 PM

Hi Rowbi,
If you were addressing my post, I have a whole setlist that I use with my two DT50 heads and two 4x12 cabs, these are all pre only, no full amp models. They did sound better than the full amp models in combo/power amp and electric guitar settings, but the full models, with cabs, mics and air, sound better going into the mixer inputs and set to reference PA. This way, as I mentioned before, I can get another L2t and add my Roland GR55 guitar synth in full range. Also, when I recorded the POD HD500 and DT50, I would run out of the cab emulated XLR on the back of the DT50 into a VP28 (API console preamp) and that sounded great. I can now do the same with the out on the L2t and get the cab, mic and air recorded or send the same sound I hear to a PA. Right now, live and in the studio, I have all my Vetta II HD amp models, modulation and distortion fx going to my two 2x12 and two 4x12 cabs (one of each on each side in stereo). My Vetta reverbs and delay, rack mounted reverbs in Vetta fx loop, Acoustic, Roland GR 55 and GR33 guitar synths going into a rack mounted mixer into two M-Audio PA cabs. Buying another L2t and using the HD500x and GR55 in stereo with full amp, cab, mic and air, as I mentioned above, would truly be a very small footprint recration of my big rig.
Thanks!
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#16 Rowbi

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:51 PM

Hi rubytopaz,

Sorry for the confusion. I'm using the mobile version of this site on my iPhone so there's no option to quote a previous post to make it more obvious who I am replying to.

My previous two posts were in reply to Luigo69
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#17 Luigo69

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:32 AM

Hi Rowbi,

Again, Thanks for taking the time and responding to my concerns, it really helps. I Appreciate that.

 

I have spent the whole afternoon playing with this trying to make it work, this is what I found:

 

1st, I am really trying to take advantage of using the L6Link connection with my setup, so, I am using it this way.

 

- The HD500X keeps changing the output mode to "Combo power Amp", and I really think it sounds better in "Studio/Direct" Mode.

   Keep in Mind that I am also using the XLR outputs to send my signal to the FOH Mixer.

   I mention this because one of my biggest concerns is to be able to send the same sound I hear in the L2t to the FOH Mixer.

 

 

So it sounds like you're taking a preset that sounds good on one rig, just changin it to full amp model and not re tweaking it is probably the issue.

You usually need to tweak a preset if you make a significant change.

Have you tried other amp models, and tweaking the EQ of the amp model to help it sound better.

- Yes, strangely, I found out that I have to Really Tweak my Presets to use in this setup ( With the L2t )

   I was trying to use my pre existing presets from my old HD500+DT25 expecting them to sound the same or at least similar with the L2t

   The tweaking is almost Extreme!.. I started to get Really good sounds by tweaking my pre existing presets.. Weird.

 

So, Pretty much every setup configuration needs to be tuned accordingly, I guess.

 

Again, My concern is to be able to replicate what I hear on the L2t ( That I use as my stage Monitor ) and send to the FOH Mixer thru the XLR Outs.

I am not sure it is the same sound..

 

And Another question, How can I make the HD500X remember to stay on "Studio/Direct" ??

The L2t seems to remember the speaker mode selected for each preset, which I think is pretty cool!!


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#18 Luigo69

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:12 PM

A few Months Later.. I still NOT getting it Rigth!

Sometimes I think I am getting ready to just give up... If anybody knows the secret to this setup, please, please let me know!

My sound is not coming out right, it sounds too thin and harsh, almost too digital and I am in no way can get a decent distortion that is usable.

Also, my general volume is too low, something is wrong

 

VARIAX JTV69 + HD500X + L2t

 

Some more questions:

 

1.- What is the best input setting for a Variax guitar?

2.- If the L2t is connected via L6 LINK, does the L2t replicates the same sound sent through the XLR outs to the FOH?

 

I really need to make this work.

 

Thanks in advance for your help and comments.


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#19 silverhead

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:18 PM

1) Set the HD500x preset Input to Variax.

 

2) Make sure the L2t is set to Reference mode, and set the HD500x Output mode to Studio/Direct. Use the Full (not Pre) Amp model in the HD500x preset.


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#20 silverspeedy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:45 PM

silverhead - the issue I've got with your solution is that whenever I switch to a new patch, the HD500x automatically switches the L3t into Electric Guitar mode.  I've drained the settings pages in the POD but I can't see how to tie a patch to a different mode on the L3t.  I agree that your solution gives the fullest sound (maybe even too much boomy bass at times) but I've got to set the speaker to Reference anytime a new patch switches the speaker's mode over Line6 Link.  Any hints?  Otherwise I think this method will only work over 1/4" or XLR outputs but not Line6 Link (without a firmware update?...).  So not only does this make Line6 Link unusable for a single-channel configuration, I'm not sure I understand the utility of 'Electric Guitar' mode in the L2/L3 at all.

 

Thank you truly for your advice!


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#21 silverspeedy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:47 PM

silverhead - the issue I've got with your solution is that whenever I switch to a new patch, the HD500x automatically switches the L3t into Electric Guitar mode when it's connected over Line6 Link.  I've drained the settings pages in the POD but I can't see how to tie a patch to a different mode on the L3t.  I agree that your solution gives the fullest sound (maybe even too much boomy bass at times) but I've got to set the speaker to Reference anytime a switch patches.  Any hints?  Or this only setup only works over 1/4inch or XLR?


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#22 silverhead

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:33 AM

You need to re-save the HD500x patch after manually setting the L3t set to Reference mode. Thereafter, recalling the patch will reset the mode to Reference rather than Electric Guitar.

 

It's a strange setup. The L3t mode setting is saved in the HD patch, but you can't set it in the patch either directly on the HD device or in HD Edit. It is only changed by saving the patch with the L3t in a different mode setting. By default, the L3t is set to Electric Guitar mode in every HD patch. In other words, every HD patch will set the L3t mode to Electric Guitar until you save that patch with the L3t in a different mode.


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#23 silverspeedy

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 10:39 AM

So I've got a partial solution and I hope it helps someone...the HD500 "knows" what mode the L3t (or L2t) is in.  So when you're in a preset and hit the mode button on the back of the speaker, you'll get the star in the upper left hand of the Pod's display.  Save the preset with the Pod's save button and you're done.  Repeat for other patches.  The speaker mode doesn't show up in any of the Pod menus and it doesn't seem supported through the HD Edit software either - you have to use the Pod's built-in interface.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but this will work for now.


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#24 edstar1960

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:57 AM

Actually L6 suggest using combo power amp output mode and electric guitar amp mode on the pod and speaker respectively.
Connect them together with a l6link cable and they will both change those settings automatically.
You can change to PA and studio direct but I would the recommended settings good
On my hd500 and l3m and l3t.


Hi rowbi, what are the recommended settings if a DT25 is also in the mix? I understand Line6 recommend the DT25 be connected first in the L6link chain, but what should the HD500 have its global setting as, especially if both electric and acoustic sounds will be utilised via the DT25 and L2/3 respectively?

HD500 -> DT25 -> L2 or L3

Thanks in advance.
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#25 Rowbi

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:04 PM

Hi rowbi, what are the recommended settings if a DT25 is also in the mix? I understand Line6 recommend the DT25 be connected first in the L6link chain, but what should the HD500 have its global setting as, especially if both electric and acoustic sounds will be utilised via the DT25 and L2/3 respectively?

HD500 -> DT25 -> L2 or L3

Thanks in advance.


I think the thing to remember is that it is possible to use a DT amp and l3/l2 speaker, but that all features may not work at their best. If you want to use a DT combo or head with open back cab the advice is to use combo power amp mode on the pod. That also means you can use an l3/2 speaker with the same mode.
If you use a closed back cab with a DT head, you would want stack power amp mode on the pod but that mode won't work best with an l3/2.
If you want to use acoustic guitar you'd want FRFR so using anything but studio direct output mode will slightly compromise the tone. I haven't played with the different l6link routing options in a while, but maybe there a way to have presets for elec guitar route to multiple DT and l2/3 speakers and other presets to output to only the l2/3 for acoustic guitar. Maybe still not ideal with the output mode.

The tools are there to be used however you like, but not every operation will work its best when you mix technologies. But I'm sure there will be a way to get it to be workable
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#26 edstar1960

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:37 AM

I think the thing to remember is that it is possible to use a DT amp and l3/l2 speaker, but that all features may not work at their best. If you want to use a DT combo or head with open back cab the advice is to use combo power amp mode on the pod. That also means you can use an l3/2 speaker with the same mode.
If you use a closed back cab with a DT head, you would want stack power amp mode on the pod but that mode won't work best with an l3/2.
If you want to use acoustic guitar you'd want FRFR so using anything but studio direct output mode will slightly compromise the tone. I haven't played with the different l6link routing options in a while, but maybe there a way to have presets for elec guitar route to multiple DT and l2/3 speakers and other presets to output to only the l2/3 for acoustic guitar. Maybe still not ideal with the output mode.

The tools are there to be used however you like, but not every operation will work its best when you mix technologies. But I'm sure there will be a way to get it to be workable

 

Thanks Rowbi.  The technology in question is L6 LINK, and that is used by 3 currently supported Line 6 products - HD500, DTxx, and Stagesource speakers.   The problem with the scenario inquestion - although supported and documented by Line 6 - is that the HD500 only allows one OUTPUT mode at any one time.  If the HD500 could use different output modes for different outputs and even for different stereo channels (L or R) then full support would be possible. It would be possible using a JTV to have an electric guitar sound going to DT25 combo amp on the L channel with HD500 using combo power amp mode and at the same time have an acoustic guitar sound going to stagesource speaker on the R channel with HD500 using studio/direct mode.  Or it should be possible for the HD500 to swap between combo amp mode and studio/direct mode when patches swap between a DT25 and L2M speaker and MUTE the other when both connected via L6 LINK.  I think it should be possible for the L6 LINK code to do that in all the supported devices - they just need to write the code.   We can live in hope.    :)


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#27 Rowbi

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:19 PM

I agree that the code is there and with some tweaking it could be made to work...
Have a think about this though: rather than thinking the output modes are an EQ filter, what if the output mode uses a different cab? So perhaps there's a version of each cab model for each output mode. If you want to run dual output modes you need more DSP.....
Just a guess, but I bet it's something along those lines, or some similar sort of factor that's made line 6 not want to do it.

Shame thou - it would be ace with dual output modes... Didn't the hd300/400 used to have dual modes?
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#28 edstar1960

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:47 AM

I agree that the code is there and with some tweaking it could be made to work...
Have a think about this though: rather than thinking the output modes are an EQ filter, what if the output mode uses a different cab? So perhaps there's a version of each cab model for each output mode. If you want to run dual output modes you need more DSP.....
Just a guess, but I bet it's something along those lines, or some similar sort of factor that's made line 6 not want to do it.

Shame thou - it would be ace with dual output modes... Didn't the hd300/400 used to have dual modes?

 

Yes - it is most likely to be DSP related.  I guess the OUTPUT mode is effectively a global EQ being applied at the end of the chain - so it would be like adding yet another fx block to each patch on each stereo path.  Actually, does the STUDIO/DIRECT mode add another EQ curve or is that the one mode that effectively does not manipulate the HD500 output?  But all the other output modes DO add an EQ curve?  If STUDIO/DIRECT does add a global EQ curve, then I wonder what things would sound like if it could be turned off to save DSP and allow global EQ to occur at the mixer or final destination of the signal? So, how about a NULL output mode?    

 

I have never used an HD300/400 so I don't know if they had dual modes.   But the X3L allows you to have the XLRs set differently to the 1/4 inch outs.


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#29 Mastersonics

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:25 PM

Hello,
Please help me figure what it the best way to configure this setup.
 
This is what I have:
 
Variax JTV69 - HD500X - L2t
 
 
2.- What would be the optimum speaker mode on the L2t  when using with the HD500X?
     - Does the L2t auto select the speaker mode depending on the preset? it auto selects Electric guitar 
     - Are this speaker modes able to be saved in the HD500X presets?
 
Your opinion and advice will be Greatly appreciated.



This is exactly what I need to know
Anyone know if this can be done already via presets from the HD500x?

Thanks,
Charles
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#30 guitarno

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 05:43 AM

   You can use whatever speaker mode you thinks sounds best for any particular patch. I use the PA, Acoustic Guitar, and Electric Guitar modes depending on which HD500 patch/JTV model I'm using. If you set a speaker mode with the HD500 linked (by L6Link Cable), and then save the patch on the HD500, it will remember the speaker mode setting and automatically set it for you the next time you switch to that patch. You HAVE to be connected by the L6Link Cable for this to work!


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#31 zaphodboy

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 06:34 AM

I run basically the same rig as you except I have the L3m. Having played around with the various settings quite a bit this is the advice I would give (for what it's worth)

 

  • Pod in studio/direct mode, switch set to line
  • Run a DMX cable between the Pod and the L3 using L6 link. This way you can switch speaker modes per patch depending whether you want electric or acoustic tones. You cannot save the speaker modes via HD edit though. To get the Pod to change modes dial in your tone as normal using HD edit, manually switch to the required mode on the Stagesource speaker the hit save on the Pod, not HD edit. If you save via HD edit the speaker mode will default to PA mode.
  • In theory if you are running 'electric guitar mode' on your L2 you should use the PRE amp models, bypassing the Pods speaker emulation (your L2 is already doing that). Conversely if you are in PA mode you should use full amp models for exactly the opposite reason. In practice I have found that there is no right or wrong way... some PRE models sound great in PA mode and some full models are awesome in electric guitar mode. It's whatever sounds best to you! 
  • I have my acoustic tones with no amp through the Pod, a little tube compression and reverb and the L3 set to 'acoustic guitar' mode.

Set like this I find the rig to give a really transparent sound. I have had compliments about my tone (if not my playing!!) from musos in the audience and sound guys, so it can't be too far off.

 

Good luck, hope you find tone Nirvana!


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