Notes and Lessons Learned on FRFR patches

[DunedinDragon]

I've noticed a lot of confusion about developing patches on the Pod HD systems that are connected directly to a PA and/or FRFR monitors.  I've been working with my Pods (500X and ProX) for a month or so and have learned a few tricks and tips that may be helpful to others.  I think it might be nice if people share some of their findings here as well as we could all probably benefit.

 

For the record I use an FRFR monitor on stage (Yamaha DXR12) and connect directly to a PA using QSC KLA12 speakers.  Here are some of the things I've found helpful as a baseline in almost all of my patches.

 

To get rid of boominess in the bass response:

Adjust the low cut on the cab parameters to up around 100 to 125 hz.  I do this on almost all my amp models and cabinets.  It gives a nice, clean articulated bottom end in almost all cases.

 

Use the bass knob sparingly.  I never go above halfway and am typically at about 30% or just slightly above that.  Even with high gain models it keeps it from getting muddy.

 

To get rid of thin or tinny sound at the top end:

Put a parametric EQ toward the end of the signal chain.  Sometimes I slightly roll back the highs to 45%, but generally I take care of the very tinny sounds by taking the EQ up to around 80%, the Q at around 75% and the Gain down to around 30% or even lower.  From what I can tell this rolls back the very high end of around 3500Hz to 8000Hz which is a bit piercing on most amps and cabinet setups.

 

To get a tighter and better articulated overdriven sound without the muddiness:

Share the drive duties between the amp and and a pedal.  I generally use a Tube Drive set at about 28% and set the drive on the amp such as a Marshal JCM at around 30%.  This of course would vary with the amp, but sharing these duties seems to give it some good pump but not sound all mashed together when playing chorus or verses.  For leads I add in a Tube Screamer with the drive set around 30% which gives it pretty good sustain but with a lot of clarity.

 

To get a good british crunch style sound similar to the Who, Stones, or even Doobie Bros:

Use a bit cleaner amp like a HiWatt with the drive around 40% (or more if you want a bit more crunch) and combine that with a compressor toward the front of your signal chain (I prefer the Vetta Comp) with Sensitivity around 30 to 50% and Level around 75 to 80%, but mostly follow your ears.  I often use an analog chorus at very low speed, depth around 35, tone about 50% or slightly above and the mix at 40% or 35%.  Not so much that you really hear the chorus but it adds a bit more body to the sound.

 

Those are all the major things I've come up with.  Feel free to share your lessons learned.

[Atrain_dlp]

I know this is an old thread but thank you for posting your findings DunedinDragon. I recently upgraded my XT Live to a HD500x and picked up an Alto TS212. I keep running across your posts and they have been very helpful. The GEQ low/high cut settings you recommended in another thread (100hz/8.5khz) and ensuring it was studio/direct made a big improvement. I'm still having a tough time getting my distortion tones to sound good, mild and higher gain. I've just started messing around with the parametric EQ a bit. If you have any new recommendations or lessons learned, I'm all ears! People seem to get great tones with simple chains and no EQ's so I don't know what my problem is, lol!

[Atrain_dlp]

Thanks for the advice on the MFEQ hurghanico! I will experiment with it and see how it works for me. So you don't feel like my GEQ low/high pass set at 100hz/8.5khz is doing enough to clean up my tones with distortion? It's kind of hard to describe what I hear...distortions are sort of mushy and nondescript vs. crisp and clear. The distortion pedal effects seem to lack their distinct characters. Definitely not what I'm hearing when watching tutorials on YouTube. I don't have an issue with the clean tones. Is it common for FRFR speaker users to have to EQ their distortion tones to get an authentic sound? I actually expected to have less issues dialing in tones with them. Thanks again!

[cruisinon2]

Definitely not what I'm hearing when watching tutorials on YouTube. I don't have an issue with the clean tones. Is it common for FRFR speaker users to have to EQ their distortion tones to get an authentic sound?

Those videos are the worst yardstick in the world to compare your tones against. Claims in the "notes" section notwithstanding, you have no idea how it was actually recorded, or what was or wasn't done to it after the fact. Your rig is never gonna be exactly the same as the guy noodling away on the screen.

 

And yes, there are growing pains for pretty much everybody when moving to an FRFR rig. It's a totally different head space...you can't treat it as you would a guitar amp, because it just isn't. In fact, I'd say that if you had instant tonal bliss right out of the gate, it's either dumb luck, or divine intervention.

[Atrain_dlp]

Understood. I'm realizing my expectations were off with the FRFR setup as I thought I would get relatively pure representations of the models and effects without having to do a ton of tweaking. I just need to figure out what is negatively affecting my crunch/distortion tones and I will be good. As hurghanico suggested, it may be that I just need to spend more time cutting highs and lows with the MFEQ...it does make a little sense as to why I found it difficult to pinpoint a particular issue using the PEQ. I'm definitely interested in hearing from more FRFR users as to the methods they use to dial in.

[BillBee]

^^^^ True. Remember FRFR is not going to have the inherent EQ a cab is going to have and even the power amp/cab guys (me) have to apply the same eq techniques (to an extent).

 

Distortion is pretty subjective too. It could be the amp model/mic/cab etc..... but remember to close HDEdit once in a while and just play. :)

 

FWIW: I would do the eq'ing per patch and save the GEQ for any house pa corrections you might have to do.

 

oh and "MeamBobbo's HD guide" punch that phrase in google and go there.

[Atrain_dlp]

Thanks guys. DunedinDragon's advice (in a different thread) on adjusting the GEQ to dial down the overall extreme high/low settings made sense to me however I agree that if I have to EQ each patch anyway, messing with the GEQ settings isn't necessary. I will put the GEQ back to stock settings and try working with the MFEQ. And yes, I totally burned up a couple hours last weekend messing with the PEQ and a few different amp models and never really played. It was frustrating but I'm not a quitter :)

 

I have been on the meambobbo website...good stuff but it's a lot to take in for someone like me, inexperienced in the nuances of fine tuning EQ and tone. I just don't have much experience with that. I definitely learn better by watching someone go through the process, hence the YouTube tutorial comment.  Thanks again for the helpful advice.

[BillBee]

Its all good Atrain just remember when you get an eq dialed in that you like save the patch under a different name and use that one as a template for copying. Little bites and the whole pie can be eaten. :D

[Atrain_dlp]

Good point Bill! We'll see how it goes with the MFEQ. I feel like it's something simple contributing to lack of clarity in my distortions. I'll be thrilled if just trimming a little more of my highs and lows cures my issue. Thanks for giving me something new to try!