Jump to content


Photo

New Firmware Expectations


  • Please log in to reply
155 replies to this topic

#1 EOengineer

EOengineer

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:06 PM

Having been a line 6 customer through every rendition of the Pod, original bean to current HD500 (as well as Vetta and amp farm), I've become accustomed to periodic updates as a mechanism to fine tune their devices functionality more closely to the expectations of their customers.

We all wonder, and make wish lists, but I'm wondering what everyone REALISTICALLY expects if another update were to take place.

Part of me expects that they are done with new amps, and will instead clean up some of the EQ presentations, maybe retweak a few cabs.

Part of me wants to go for broke and hope they add amps and retweak the cab/mic models, but I want to focus on what is realistic here. What are you guys guessing?
  • 0

#2 TheRealZap

TheRealZap

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 14807 posts
  • LocationClemmons, NC USA

Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:51 PM

Expectations: a sure way to be let down. wishlists and ideas are good... but i'm pretty happy to get whatever they throw my way... not like it's costing me any more money at this point... (although it would if they came out with some model packs!)


  • 0

#3 stumblinman

stumblinman

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 434 posts
  • LocationPacific Northwest

Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:01 PM

Expectations: a sure way to be let down. wishlists and ideas are good... but i'm pretty happy to get whatever they throw my way... not like it's costing me any more money at this point... (although it would if they came out with some model packs!)

Really? They'd charge you for it after you beta tested them? Wow..


  • 0

#4 medbad5150

medbad5150

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 95 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:13 AM

Agree with you all on this, just bought a GT 100 this week to see if amp modelling can compare ( a week in and resounding...NO! ), but first post is interesting, I've had three versions of GT, Boss know that pretty much whatever is thrown out onto the market, loyal customers will buy in the hope that what was good will now be great, what was great will now be awesome. Line 6 are no different.

 

From their perspective and if you read the 'wishlists', to please everyone the next update will include about 250 amp models and a thousand tweaks to EQ, connection, effects,and DSP.

 

People can't help but see it from selfish view, I've seen amps on the wishlist that I have never heard of, and my taste goes from Riannha to Rush, EVH to Oasis people will always be disappointed.

 

LIne 6 can't win either way, but the honest truth is owning three previous GT, GR20, GR55, VG99 and zero updates, I am grateful for what comes along

 

( my wishlist is the Tea Chest bass sound used in skiffle..ha ha see what I mean ? )

 

Peace


  • 0

#5 GTLazer

GTLazer

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 209 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:21 AM

If they're listening to the forums, the JC120 and EVH5150 are two of the most popular choices amp-wise. I'd be happy with them.

 

It would be nice to think they'd solve the ongoing EQ argument, but I'd've thought they'd've already done it by now if they were going to.

 

Personally, I bought the 500 when I was happy with what you got with it, so anything extra is a bonus new toy.


  • 0

You like my answer? Hit the up arrow. You no like my answer? Hit the down arrow. Sorted.


#6 medievil1

medievil1

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 33 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:41 AM

I just wish they'd fix the marshall JCM 800 sim.. it sounds nothing like an 800 and add an AFD 100 thats on par with amplitubes (Which is brilliant IMHO)

 

oh and fix the daggum speaker sim setup so it's not a shot in the dark.. use pictures, move the mic around instead of expecting people to guess what the settings are suppose to do. To me that was the most disappointing, it's like tryign to learn a foreign language instead of being really easy and straight forward


  • 0

#7 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 692 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:01 AM



We all wonder, and make wish lists, but I'm wondering what everyone REALISTICALLY expects if another update were to take place.

 

I am so tired of playing the expectation game with line 6 because they never disclose or give the slightest hint of what's to come. 

My expectations are minimal because the shortfalls are so many when it comes to the HD series and I'll list a few items just to show that I highly doubt that they will address major concerns for the Recording Guitarist that they seem to have forgotten about with the HD release. The HD series is more for the performing guitarist and here's why:

 

1-The recording abilities relating to routing signal are a step backward when compared with POD XT , POD Farm. All the options that were available close to  TEN years ago with POD Farm/XT are no longer available. Re-amping is not addressed at all. If you compare that with current competition: Eleven Rack has Re-amping at the software Level similar to POD Farm.

 

2-EQ is not for the recording guitarists and is tailored for those who has no idea how a traditional studio EQ work. No point in beating a dead horse. Suffice to say that the competition such as the Eleven Rack has a full featured studio EQ.

 

3-Finally the amp modeling is an improvement but honestly still no where near those of the competition. Eleven Rack at 300 without Pro tools , half the price of the HD pro, has models that are way more realistic than the current HD models. Not only the sound, but the way all the amps behave when pushed, are much more realistic and better sounding using the Eleven Rack.

 

If line 6 wants to cater to the studio guitarist they must address these three items. Currently, If they update the number of models to 250 amps, I won't use my HD500 for amp models, because the Eleven that I just bought sounds thicker, bigger, more like a real amp that it dwarfs every single model on the HD. The hd is a decent effect processor though but the quality, not the quantity, of the reverbs, modulation are very inferior to the quality of Eleven Rack and by a long shot. You just need to hear the Reverb on the Eleven Rack to realize the huge difference in quality and musicality. 

 

My list might be short, but I doubt that line 6 will address that for the next ten years specially when it comes to modelings. They will milk this modeling for another ten years just like, they're doing with POD 2.0 and pod farm. That's fine and I'm not criticizing, i'm just pointing out that they completely abandoned the Studio Guitarist looking for more realistic modeling and they figured at less than a grand, it's not expected anyway, since people pay twice that for a kemper or AXE FX.  That's the wrong attitude, because the next update to Amplitube (that currently has some amps that are better than similar ones in the HD series) and Revalver will leave line 6 further behind in satisfying the recording guitarists' needs...


  • 0

#8 Akeron

Akeron

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 322 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:58 AM

I expect they fix a problem with many amps in the POD regarding the total gain. At this moment, if you don't use an effect or two before the simulated amp to boost the input (say the Plexi Lead Brt) and you set the amp's Drive to 80%\100%, you only get the amount of gain you have at 3\4 in the original amp! The estimate is only an idea, is not perfect since I go by memory. You could verify that trying to match the gain of real amps clips that use no external effects, not even the jumpering of the channels, to create the distortion. A solution could be to add a parameter to control the level of the "Guitar In" input, so you won't have to loose blocks only to correct that problem, or simply correct the levels in the modeling of the amps. How unrealistic that could be?


  • 0

#9 silverhead

silverhead

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 11094 posts
  • LocationOttawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:24 AM

Really? They'd charge you for it after you beta tested them? Wow..

I'm not wanting to speak for TheRealZap, but I am in a similar situation. I'm sometimes invited to beta-test products as is he. But not all beta-testers are invited to participate in each and every beta test. There's no expectation on my part (nor, I presume, on his) that I would be invited to beta test any model-pack offerings if they are even being planned - which I have no inside information about. So, like The RealZap, I would expect to pay for any model packs if I wanted them. If I did happen to participate in a software beta test then no, I wouldn't be charged for the software.


  • 0

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
.... John Lennon

 

 


#10 gunpointmetal

gunpointmetal

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 423 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:53 AM

I've been wondering...if the Eleven Rack sounds so good, how come they basically have to give it away with Pro Tools to get people to buy it?

 

I want real EQ's and a noise gate that has its own loop that you can set anywhere in the chain, like a Decimator G-String, but only use one block. I mean, the noise gate in my old GT-8 is better than any combination of the ones I've put together on my HD500. They're useable, but not awesome, especially for low tunings where there is extra string noise, etc.


  • 0

#11 innovine

innovine

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 218 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:29 AM

I expect improvements to the fx. The filters are crass, and overly resonant. I'd assume there is a lot of code reuse with the m13 so this might be realistic.

THey better add reamping support over usb. Also, it'd help to have the spdif active when the line6 link is connected, but I won't hold my breath, I think line6 dont care enough about cobplex setups and try only sofar as to appear like they support things, add a few contacts round the back and it looks like it'll do anything..

REalistically, I bet they add a few amps, cos that is the stu#f that easily sells. If they go that way, I'll be looking at kemper. Line6 need to improve their small technical details if they want to keep my business
  • 0

#12 joel_brown

joel_brown

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 325 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:08 AM

Didn't we just have a similar thread to this not long ago ?


  • 1

#13 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 692 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:02 AM

I've been wondering...if the Eleven Rack sounds so good, how come they basically have to give it away with Pro Tools to get people to buy it?

Because Avid's marketing is more concerned with selling Pro tools so they can sell more plugins later. Eleven with expansion pack installed has more amps than HD because there are many amps where two channels are modeled but counted as one amp.  They can learn a lot from Line 6 marketing, if line 6 buys Eleven Rack, they will sell much more because they're more of a guitar company. If you play the Bogner Xtacy  Blue included in the Eleven Rack, it's almost indistinguishable from the Real thing by those who own the real amp...


  • 0

#14 EOengineer

EOengineer

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:39 PM


I expect they fix a problem with many amps in the POD regarding the total gain. At this moment, if you don't use an effect or two before the simulated amp to boost the input (say the Plexi Lead Brt) and you set the amp's Drive to 80%\100%, you only get the amount of gain you have at 3\4 in the original amp! The estimate is only an idea, is not perfect since I go by memory. You could verify that trying to match the gain of real amps clips that use no external effects, not even the jumpering of the channels, to create the distortion. A solution could be to add a parameter to control the level of the "Guitar In" input, so you won't have to loose blocks only to correct that problem, or simply correct the levels in the modeling of the amps. How unrealistic that could be?


  • 0

#15 EOengineer

EOengineer

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

I'm wondering what experience you have with real Marshall plexi amps, because when I compare the POD HD plexi to my own REAL plexi, the POD has significantly more gain and compression.

If anything, I would argue that the Line6 high gain models have TOO MUCH gain and compression, even with the master volume parameter backed down. The JCM800 is another great example of an amp that should be bright and crunchy, but is instead very dark and mushy, even with a treble boosted EQ in front of it.
  • 0

#16 johnnyayyy

johnnyayyy

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1364 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:54 PM

Eleven Rack has Re-amping at the software Level similar to POD Farm.

Eleven Rack has a full featured studio EQ...

 

much more realistic and better sounding using the Eleven Rack...

 

the Eleven that I just bought sounds thicker, bigger, more like a real amp...

 

You just need to hear the Reverb on the Eleven Rack ...

 

Eleven with expansion pack installed has more amps...

 

Bogner Xtacy  Blue included in the Eleven Rack...

 

I hear them all over the place using the Eleven Rack also...

 

but now that I compare it with the Eleven Rack...

 

Amp Modeling in the ELeven is significantly more advanced...

 

My eleven Rack  comes with the Eleven Plugin...

 

That was the case before Eleven Rack came down in price...

 

the Eleven is in a completely higer league in modeling...

 

once you playing the models in Eleven Rack it's very hard to go back...

 

Ever since I got the Eleven, My HD500 sits...

 

I have much more amps in the Eleven...

 

for recording and tone the Eleven is in a completely higer league...

 

are you going to feel that it's "treason" to buy an Eleven Rack?...

 

the HD PRO is inferior to Eleven...

 

Eleven is half the price..

 

I'm definitely considering getting a second Eleven Rack...

 

I just bought an Eleven Rack...

 

The Eleven Rack Modeling is definitely the next level up...

 

the Amp models in the Eleven Rack are much more natural and realistic...

 

I paid 350 for My Eleven...

 

I recently bought the Eleven Rack...

 

After a week with Eleven, I can clearly hear how eleven Feels and sound...

 

I just bought the Eleven Rack...

 

I just got an eleven Rack from Ebay, Brand New, for $300...

 

Eleven with one path sounds way better...

 

Eleven Rack amp models sounded, thicker, bigger occupied more air and space and felt more like a real amp...

 

I will always use Eleven for any guitar tracks I record...

 

they are no match to the Eleven Rack amps!...

 

sounded bigger clearer and more responsive using the Eleven...

 

Bonger Ecstacy models in the Eleven Rack...

 

It becomes very clear that Eleven is modeling many aspects in the amp behavior and sound that isn't addressed in HD modeling...

 

The blue Bogner in the Eleven Rack, alone is worth the 300 dollars I paid...

 

I will be using the ELeven Rack for the foreseeable future...

 

You gotta improve the modeling to catch up with ELeven Rack...

 

the Hardware Eleven that competes and beats the HD Pro...

 

Avid just updated the Driver to Eleven Rack ...

 

Eleven competes with POD HD PRO at half the price...

 

to MY ears and fingers Eleven models are much better...

 

Eleven is the best AMP Modeler...

 

Eleven Rack can be used with any DAW...

'

I'm not trying to sell Eleven Racks...

 

actually hope that line 6 appreciates my inputs on this forum...

 

I already use the Eleven Rack...

 

We GET it. You like your Eleven Rack (tho I don't know where you find the time to enjoy it what with your 24 hour a day job posting in this forum with ads for it).

 

Couple of things...

 

1. I don't have time to go through all your posts to check, but... have you EVER posted here and not turned it into an ad for Eleven Rack?

 

2. Have you ever considered spending your time raving about your Eleven Rack here: http://www.avid.com/US/communities ?

 

3. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason a new Eleven Rack loses more than 50% of its value the instant you purchase it and that Avid has to bundle ProTools with them just to get rid of them is that almost nobody wants one?


  • 2

#17 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 692 posts

Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:51 PM

We GET it. You like your Eleven Rack (tho I don't know where you find the time to enjoy it what with your 24 hour a day job posting in this forum with ads for it).

 

:lol: I'm getting paid by Avid to sell Eleven Racks on Line 6 forum, that's my day Job. It pays very well.

 

You obviously don't get it because you have the fan boy mentality who's offended because they have an emotional attachment to their POD HD. I never said the Eleven Rack is the best modeler, I just said it has better models and quality effects than the HD Series. Obviously you're reading emotionally as you missed the part where I mentioned that Kemper and AXE FX have the best quality Amp models but they cost alot more. I also mentioned Amplitube and Revalver and how they're catching up with Kemper and AXE meanwhile line 6 hasn't been updating the Modeling.

 

When you allow your reading comprehension to suffer by reading emotionally, it's very clear that you need to think twice before you start attacking me, someone who's actually pointing deficiencies that if improved and worked on would be good for everyone including line 6 as well as you yourself. I'm not like you simply singing praises and blindly defending and trying to silence legitimate concerns for thousands of  Line 6 customers who are interested in better modeling and recording features.

 

At any rate to answer your question directly, it seems that I would have more time than you to enjoy both My ELeven and POD HD500 since  you have double the number of posts I have. 

 

Couple of things...

 

1. I don't have time to go through all your posts to check, but... have you EVER posted here and not turned it into an ad for Eleven Rack?

Some how you found time and plenty of it ;) .  You seem to have done a good job going through them and selectively focused on where I mentioned the Eleven. I mean holly carp :lol: , you just went through everyone of my posts to find where I talked about Eleven Rack.  Not only that but  you might have embellished what I wrote and reworded it to suite your agenda. I'm not sure if you copied and pasted from my previous posts and I won't take the time to find out.   I wonder if line 6 hired you as a forum POLICE :) .  You obviously have more time than me to defend the HD rather than enjoy playing it.

 

2. Have you ever considered spending your time raving about your Eleven Rack here: http://www.avid.com/US/communities ?

Not really, if I join there, it would probably be to point out deficiencies and hoping AVid would resolve them. Fan boy mentality doesn't suite me very well. To each their own. 

 

3. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason a new Eleven Rack loses more than 50% of its value the instant you purchase it and that Avid has to bundle ProTools with them just to get rid of them is that almost nobody wants one?

 

I don't buy  musical gear as an investment. I don't care how  much my HD500 fetches today or tomorrow, it's a good controller with some decent effects. It's great for live performing. For modeling though Eleven Rack using the same models and speakers head to head, anyone with ears will hear the difference and feel it if they're playing and all in favor of ELEVEN RAck.  If I have some time the next couple of weeks I will do a head to head with the same identical amps modeled to show that. Maybe that would push someone at line 6 to work on improving the modeling, which again is very constructive for everyone. I also happen to agree with you at the price issue with Eleven, because if you buy Eleven without protools from Ebay or anywhere else at 350-400, It probably costs more to make them, these are quality parts ...


  • 0

#18 Akeron

Akeron

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 322 posts

Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:22 AM

I'm wondering what experience you have with real Marshall plexi amps, because when I compare the POD HD plexi to my own REAL plexi, the POD has significantly more gain and compression.

If anything, I would argue that the Line6 high gain models have TOO MUCH gain and compression, even with the master volume parameter backed down. The JCM800 is another great example of an amp that should be bright and crunchy, but is instead very dark and mushy, even with a treble boosted EQ in front of it.

 

Are you talking about the JCM 800 2204 or the Pleaxi Super Lead 1959? No real experience with the originals, I only observe that any audio clip I listen to seems to have MUCH more gain than a patch with the same Drive in the POD, included

 

 

Maybe you could record a clip with you real Plexi on 8 and show me how you can have the same distortion level with 80% on the POD without boosting it in some way or another...


  • 0

#19 talwilkins

talwilkins

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 152 posts
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:43 AM

When I google for Eleven Rack they seem to cost € 250 to €350 more than a HD500(X).

So what do you mean with half the price?


  • 0

Music is the best (FZ)

the Zombywoof


#20 TheRealZap

TheRealZap

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 14807 posts
  • LocationClemmons, NC USA

Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:36 AM

they regularly get posted on ebay in the 350$ range new.... 

what happens is someone buys it just for the new version of protools and then sells the hardware....

i was considering picking one up because of the good price...

and no... i'm not going to bite on the mini-war :D

 

When I google for Eleven Rack they seem to cost € 250 to €350 more than a HD500(X).

So what do you mean with half the price?


  • 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users