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Unwanted Volume Boost When Running Modulation Effects; Fixed Yet?

modulation chorus boost bug

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#1 gregr

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:58 AM

I'm wondering if this was ever addressed and fixed, or have the powers that be incorrectly relegated it as user error?

 

For those who aren't familiar, if you run a modulation effect such as a chorus you get a appreciable boost in volume.  If the effect is placed and an amp's loop or it is post distortion then it's like getting a solo boost.

 

FWIW, this problem also exists in the HD500.


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#2 phil_m

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:39 PM

Well it hasn't been addressed. It seems to be more noticeable in some setups more than others. This is actually not an uncommon complaint when using modulation effects from all sorts of manufacturers. I think it's related to the fact that with many modulation effects, there's actually a perceived loss in volume normally. I think programmers build a boost in to combat this. It's not as noticeable when you use effect in front of a clean amp. It can be more noticeable in a loop. It would be nice if there were actually a boost/cut parameter included with the modulation effects. This is what Strymon does with the Mobius, for instance.


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#3 gregr

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

I understand the reason for the (over)compensation; however, for models with a mix parameter, setting it to 0% dry and toggling the effect on and off should not affect the output level.

 

The reason why I look at it this way is that I wish to adjust this parameter via expression pedal, but also be able to switch to a different effect in the column.

 

A boost/cut parameter would be great, though I imagine it will have to be a global control in the M-series rater than a additional page of tweaks (if necessary) on a per-model basis in the HD line.


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#4 antonioctd

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:56 AM

I actually like that boost... 

 

I use a m9 in the loop just for delays, verbs and modulations. All my gain stuff is analog (pedals and amp channels).

 

The boost is a lot more noticeable with over-driven sounds than with clean sounds. This is strange because being in the loop should mean that any gain on the preamp should be treated equally by the m9.

 

Anyway, I don't like to use modulation with over-driven tones. I just does not sound good to my ears. Unless I'm going for a drastic efect for just a bar or two for just that song... In that case the boost does a very good job making sure it will be heard! ;)

 

On clean tones I actually think the volume compensation is almost spot on. I have no complains!

 

That said, I do have a real MXR Script phase 90 on the board, before the pre-amp, for the van halen type moments  :ph34r:


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#5 jazzuar

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 02:59 AM

i have the same problem. on my m9 i just use a volume pedal preset as the last effect with a set volume reduction to compensate for the boost. but on my m5 that i use on my smaller board it's a pain. i use the m5 as the last in my signal chain and call up presets with midi program changes on my g-lab gsc3 and then fade them in or out with an expression pedal. here the volume boosts i've noticed are on the delay and panner. all the wahs, harmony, synth, etc. are much quieter. an update that would solve this would be great!
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#6 Winzlo

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 06:20 PM

I have begun using the M13 directly into a tube amp's clean channel, and notice the same 1-2db boost in level whenever I engage a modulation effect with the M13.  I used to split my send between fx2 and fx3 with 4-cable method and an amp that had an effects loop, and had the same trouble there.  With my current amp not having an effects loop, I disabled that split and still have the same issue.  I also tried using a different bank and a factory reset of the unit to no avail.

 

For me, this is highly annoying because I like to add a very subtle chorus to my clean tone, which I cannot do with the M13.  I would rather not have to buy a chorus pedal and put IT into the M13 effects loop...

 

Anyone have any ideas or settings i can try to accomplish a similar textural effect without the boost (or buying more pedals)?


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#7 ColonelForbin

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 10:51 AM

I use a m9 in the loop just for delays, verbs and modulations. All my gain stuff is analog (pedals and amp channels).

 

I just added an M13 to my rig last night (got it off craigslist), and I am doing something similar to this. I use the HD500 and DT25; the M13 is in the HD500 effects loop, and the "pre" effects feeding to the HD500 guitar in are coming from analog pedals. Actually doing parallel signals, running two amp models then merging them mono before hitting the M13. Running the 1/4" through the analog gear, and also using the VDI from my JTV59. Still working out some issues, and have yet another learning curve with the M13, but the overall effects are quite familiar since I've been tweaking with the HD500 since 2010.

 

I may end up actually putting an outboard chorus pedal in the M13 effects loop before the delays and verbs, not sure yet.

 

I like the challenges of making analog and digital gear play well together. The DT25 does make the HD500 a lot more useable; the feel of the amp is there, it's not so 'virtual' amp model anymore; the tactile feel of turning knobs on the pedals is also crucial; while programming everything is important with this gear, to a certain extent, you have to approach it like a painter preparing his palette before beginning. Sketch out the forms, determine the colors, then premix certain tones and shades so they can be applied when the time is right.

 

The M13 is fantastic for that "on the fly" vibe, when you want control over specific effects and pedals on/off, rather than entire scene or patch changes. Especially since I am relegating to a "post" amp model portion, before the L6Link hits the Bogner power amp portion of the DT. I think I will end up building a variety of M13 scenes with pedals in specific locations, or at least following some sort of logic to where / why the sequence occurs (mods, then delays, then reverbs?) Might put a comp or drive pedal into a 'clean boost' type slot, right after the preamp. But most of that will happen before the amp model / preamp, with the analog gear and the FX/FS that I set up in the HD500, also in the pre slot.


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#8 jazzuar

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 04:14 AM

on my m9 i always just call up scenes on my g-lab gsc with midi program changes so i can compensate by using a volume pedal in one of the slots with a fixed reduction on the presets that have a boost. but like i mentioned earlier on my smaller m5 board i can't do this. for now i'm using a volume pedal at the end of my chain and reducing the boost manually when needed.


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