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It's actually interesting to me that the music industry at this point is far more like the 50's Elvis era than the later 60's through the early 2000's in that the marketing machine is oriented toward selling singles and the album is secondary.  Likewise the sale of those downloads depends a LOT more on touring and not as much on airplay.

 

Even at my age I have to admit there are some pretty decent artists that have come out and a certain level of creativity I hear beginning to emerge in some of the modern songs.  Some of it I'll probably never appreciate and that's okay because it's not meant for me.

 

The thing that gives me the most concern in today's music environment is the segmentation of styles.  This tends to cause younger musicians confine their efforts to very specific sub-genres.  They often acheive considerable skills in that genre, but their skills are very narrow in scope.  This tends to limit how much creativity they can incorporate into their music to differentiate them from the rest of the people performing in that genre.  Part of what happened in the past were artists that incorporated various influences outside of pop and rock which provided for great diversity in the music.  I fear this polarizing effect is not terribly healthy for the music industry in general and certainly has been a significant limitation on younger musicians developing a full range of skills.

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Maybe some of the non-United States members can chime in here.  Being an old rocker, I get sick of the crap I hear in the States compared to what I hear in the rest of the world.  Why don't Iron Maiden, Sabbath, Raven, Metallica, Deep Purple, do more gigs in the States instead of overseas ?

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It's actually interesting to me that the music industry at this point is far more like the 50's Elvis era than the later 60's through the early 2000's in that the marketing machine is oriented toward selling singles and the album is secondary.  Likewise the sale of those downloads depends a LOT more on touring and not as much on airplay.

 

Even at my age I have to admit there are some pretty decent artists that have come out and a certain level of creativity I hear beginning to emerge in some of the modern songs.  Some of it I'll probably never appreciate and that's okay because it's not meant for me.

 

The thing that gives me the most concern in today's music environment is the segmentation of styles.  This tends to cause younger musicians confine their efforts to very specific sub-genres.  They often acheive considerable skills in that genre, but their skills are very narrow in scope.  This tends to limit how much creativity they can incorporate into their music to differentiate them from the rest of the people performing in that genre.  Part of what happened in the past were artists that incorporated various influences outside of pop and rock which provided for great diversity in the music.  I fear this polarizing effect is not terribly healthy for the music industry in general and certainly has been a significant limitation on younger musicians developing a full range of skills.

 

I'm no music expert (no formal training), but this made sense to me.

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Maybe some of the non-United States members can chime in here. Being an old rocker, I get sick of the crap I hear in the States compared to what I hear in the rest of the world. Why don't Iron Maiden, Sabbath, Raven, Metallica, Deep Purple, do more gigs in the States instead of overseas ?

Well let's see...Ozzy talks to his shoelaces, Metallica hasn't had a decent album in years, plus Hetfield has decided that he's actually a singer...ugh. Their fans are all in their mid-late 40's and beyond. Hard to fill a stadium with a bunch of middle-aged dudes who've got kids at home. Maiden, who knows?...Dickinson had throat cancer, which may or may not affect his vocal abilities going forward. Plus, they have to pry him out of the cockpit long enough to rehearse...;)

 

Seriously though, bands like that all seem to have more staying power elsewhere. We're fickle here in the states. Plus, theres the marketing machine behind it all that keeps redefining what "good" means. Most just gobble up what's dumped in their lap. And it has never, and will never be "cool" to like your Dad's music....that just ain't happening until the teenage mind undergoes a huge paradigm shift. I'm not holding my breath.

 

P.S. I saw Maiden about 2 years ago. They still put on a pretty damn good show. Grew up on all that stuff...Rock On!

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Well,have you guys,not even moved on from the 70's at all :) .

The following are not exactly teeny bopper,fresh face'd anymore,but what about

Muse.

Slipknot.

Linkin Park.

Foo Fighters.

Avenged Sevenfold.

Green Day.

Nirvana. 

Sound Garden.

Paramour.

to name just a few.

I thought i was a dinosaur,i don't feel quite so bad now :D ,even if my ears are full of wax.

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Well,have you guys,not even moved on from the 70's at all :) .

The following are not exactly teeny bopper,fresh face'd anymore,but what about

Muse.

Slipknot.

Linkin Park.

Foo Fighters.

Avenged Sevenfold.

Green Day.

Nirvana.

Sound Garden.

Paramour.

to name just a few.

I thought i was a dinosaur,i don't feel quite so bad now :D ,even if my ears are full of wax.

Muse....I tried. Really I did.

 

Slipknot...Alice Cooper without the sense of humor. Their stage show is kinda like what I imagine a Broadway production of Lord of the Flies would look like. ;) BUT, that guy can sing when he wants to. Stone Sour is the goods.

 

Linkin Park...meh. Smoldering remnants of the great rap/rock experiment. Good riddance. Even Kid Rock knew enough to quietly flee that mess, and he made his bones with that "style".

 

Avenged Sevenfold...these guys I like

Green Day...recycled Ramones, with better production

 

Nirvana...Gen X may have thought Cobain could walk on water. Did nothing for me.

Soundgarden...rocks. Love me some a Chris Cornell vocals.

 

As for me:

 

King's X, plus any or all of Ty Tabor's solo records

 

(old) Metallica

Eric Johnson

SRV

Ozzy

Alice In Chains

Extreme...minus "More Than Words". III Sides to Every Story is a great record.

 

Zakk Wylde when he's channeling his Southern rock/acoustic alter ego, and not trying to make the 1st position pentatonic scale sound like a typewriter.

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I like Avenged Sevenfold and would gladly go see them if they ever played nearby.  The others, not so much.  Sabbath is playing nearby later this year and Iron Maiden is starting a tour soon but very few, if any, dates in the states.

 

Yep, I'm in my fifties and like metal and rock.  My money spends just as good as anyone's and if bands I grew up listening to play nearby I go see them.  I remember watching my parents go see the music they grew up with when they were my age.  It just kind'a seems like music in the states is only for young people now and once you're over 40 or 50 sorry we don't want your business.

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Muse....I tried. Really I did.

Slipknot...Alice Cooper without the sense of humor. Their stage show is kinda like what I imagine a Broadway production of Lord of the Flies would look like. ;)

Linkin Park...meh.

Avenged Sevenfold...these guys I like

Green Day...recycled Ramones, with better production

Nirvana...Gen X may have thought Cobain could walk on water. Did nothing for me.

Soundgarden...rocks. Love me some a Chris Cornell vocals.

 

As for me:

 

King's X, plus any or all of Ty Tabor's solo records

 

Eric Johnson

SRV

Ozzy

Alice In Chains

Extreme...minus "More Than Words". III Sides to Every Story is a great record.

 

Zakk Wylde when he's channeling his Southern rock/acoustic alter ego, and not trying to make the 1st position pentatonic scale sound like a typewriter.

Slipknot,Alice cooper?? really?.Jim Root & co,would be most upset,incredible players.

Green Day,surely started life thinking they where the Sex Pistols?,have turned into a great gigging Band(IMO)

Again just my very humble opinion,Muse are currently right at the top of Gigging Bands,amazing.

Alice in Chains,yes,i just plonked down a few Bands quick,but you get my drift.

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I like Avenged Sevenfold and would gladly go see them if they ever played nearby.  The others, not so much.  Sabbath is playing nearby later this year and Iron Maiden is starting a tour soon but very few, if any, dates in the states.

 

Yep, I'm in my fifties and like metal and rock.  My money spends just as good as anyone's and if bands I grew up listening to play nearby I go see them.  I remember watching my parents go see the music they grew up with when they were my age.  It just kind'a seems like music in the states is only for young people now and once you're over 40 or 50 sorry we don't want your business.

Absolutely,but having seen Sabbath in their prime at the Empire Liverpool in 78',i couldn't bring myself to watch them now.

Serious comment,the real reason i don't /can't watch any of the Big Headliners anymore,i can't stand stadium events anymore & that's the only places you see them,although i did make an exception to see Queen with Adam Lambert last year at the Echo Arena Liverpool,had to go watch them after there televised NYE concert,i had to see Brian May & Roger Taylor,actually enjoying playing again,they had an obvious massive respect for Adam Lambert's treatment of the Vocals & it really worked.

Sadly I'm quite a bit older than you & most of my teenage idols are long gone,though happily Chuck Berry & Little Richard,along with James Burton & Scotty Moore are still with us & not forgetting Don Everly  :)

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I would rather have some Mercyful Fate & Celtic Frost then Green Day TBH. :)

 

The prog stuff is amazing like Carl Palmer's group, Steven Wilson solo (or with Carl) but on my long term listening list it looks grim.

 

But that said I still like Bad Company too........ Ooooo Rock Steady........

 

\m/

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Well,have you guys,not even moved on from the 70's at all :) .

The following are not exactly teeny bopper,fresh face'd anymore,but what about

Muse.

Slipknot.

Linkin Park.

Foo Fighters.

Avenged Sevenfold.

Green Day.

Nirvana. 

Sound Garden.

Paramour.

to name just a few.

I thought i was a dinosaur,i don't feel quite so bad now :D ,even if my ears are full of wax.

 

You're not much of a dinosaur with that list, :) All good ones IMO.

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Some of the older artists from the 70's and 80's have downsized and are doing quite respectable concerts in smaller concert venues with 2000 to 5000 seats to rave reviews.  Two of the best I've seen in the last couple of years are The Boys of Summer tour which featured Micheal McDonald, Donald Fagan, and Boz Skaggs as a band doing their various hits from their previous bands and solo acts....as well as The Orchestra which is an ELO tribute band made up of prior touring members of ELO accompanied by a full orchestra.  The great thing about these concerts is being able to see the precision and polish of very well respected, professional musicians in professionally produced shows at venues with great acoustics, comfortable seating, and extremely appreciative audiences.  I'll take that over your typical concert mosh pits anyday.

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As a guitar player - It was when the guitar solo disappeared from music that I started to lose interest. 

IMO - The grunge and punk era didn't kill metal or hard rock - It killed the guitar solo!

 

These days, a lot of the music out there is basically a ten second melody or phrase, over and over and over. Yuck! I don't consider that music. But to be fair, I'm sure a lot of older music, including classic rock (which I don't like at all), and 80s and 90s metal, is that way as well.

 

There's a lot of technically gifted guitar players out there nowadays for sure, but a lot of them that I listen to, mostly from youtube videos, don't push themselves enough to capture the feeling that should be there. In other words, a lot of the stuff I hear isn't really about anything in particular. It's clinical, empty, and quickly bore inducing. But it's a hard thing to do. It could also be me in not listening to it correctly. Lol.

 

Some advice since you find you've lost interest at one point or another, which I can relate to, is to write your own stuff. Write what you think won't lose your interest. There's gotta be something floating around in your head you can visualize - and duplicate in the real world as best as you can - that's your idea of the perfect music. Just do it! I guarantee it won't bore you.

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In other words, a lot of the stuff I hear isn't really about anything in particular. It's clinical, empty, and quickly bore inducing. But it's a hard thing to do. It could also be me in not listening to it correctly. Lol.

 

You're 100% correct. Playing notes and making music are NOT the same thing. Technical ability and a gift for crafting a melody and songwriting are two completely different skills. I'm no neurologist, but I'd bet money that those skills are housed in different parts of the brain. It's very rare for a player to have both in abundance. That's what makes the ones who've got both gifts such a treat to listen to...and there aren't many of them. I can listen to Zeppelin all day long. A list of memorable tunes as long as my arm. But let's face it, Jimmy Page is not a technical master. I've heard some live bootlegs that were downright dreadful...broken-hand kinda sloppy. He's a songwriter. And there are a million shredders (some famous, some not) who can play 64th notes at 210 bpm all day long without missing a beat, but (to me anyway) there's no music there.

 

But give me a player who has chops, and can also write a hook...knows exactly when to pull back, or let it all hang out...that's good stuff.

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I am 54 years old.Began getting payed to sing and play when I was 12. Enjoying reading these posts.I am somewhat wistful about the good old days but am encouraged by some of the new things happening in music.

 

A couple of points re: guitar playing and guitar music.

 

Guitar players are incestuous and only listen to other guitar players.

 

My teacher encouraged me to listen to vocalists/sax players / keyboard players etc...

 

I am very grateful for that.

 

EDM is very hot these days and that's okay.

 

My only problem with any of this marketed predictable dance music is that young people will think that that is all music has to offer.

 

It is up to those of us who still play out/ teach etc.. To do what we can about that.

 

That is the older experienced musicians commission .

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I'm fortunate in that I get to work with younger musicians in their 20's.  Our drummer is 25 and our occassional fill in bass player is also 25.  And up until recently our soundman was 18 until he left for college.  I'm encouraged for the most part by these young musicians in that they are curious and want to learn and grow their skills.  For the most part they agree about the dismal state of the current music business, but are still determined to make their mark despite it all.

 

I think due in part to having grown up in a technology savvy world, some tend to focus on technology as a key part of their musicianship.  In some cases, like our drummer, this is a great advantage.  He's an incredible drummer regardless of the equipment he uses.  But being technology savvy he's really mastered the tuning and setup of electronic drums to the point that his live sound is indistinguishable from any studio level recording.  At the other end of the spectrum is our fill-in bass player (who also plays guitar in other bands).  In his perspective the technology is the answer to his ability, or lack thereof, to play.  Convincing this type of young person that the latest and greatest amp, pickup, pedal, or whiz-bang feature will NEVER make him a better guitar player and that only practice will do that is like talking to a wall.  Although he readily agrees with that logic, he continues to focus his effort on equipment rather than practice.  And guaging from some of the posts I've seen on various boards this is not an uncommon approach by many younger players.

 

If there's any one thing that is holding back this generations growth as well rounded musicians it's probably that sentiment.  In some ways we older musicians maybe set the wrong example by focusing too much attention on the technology, but for different reasons.  In most of our cases we grew up in a world in which we could play every night of the week if we chose to, so we were able to develop and hone our skills, and now we adopt these technologies because it makes our life simpler and easier, not because it will help overcome our technical deficiencies.

 

If we have any obligation to mentoring younger musicians this is surely a key message for their growth.

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I think good YOUNG Bands with talented players are still out there,though they do tend to be(for the large part)in what is labeled as Metal,of 1 type or another & access to them is limited & specialised,a bit like every other generation of Rock & Roll/Rock music,though i do think that sadly,the main time for the masses access to Rock was the 60's,which built some massive reputations,which still exist today(sadly because i disliked most of the 60's stuff).

But if you seek out modern Bands via the likes of TV metal channels,such as Scuzz/Kerrang etc & of course the best places,the established festivals(Monsters of Rock a.k.a. Donnington,etc)because there you can actually here the Bands perform as opposed to studio generated noises.

For instance on Scuzz etc i watched Black Veil Brides lots of times & thought tripe,then on last years Monsters concert i watched them do 1 of the best sets of the weekend,along with Clutch(not young but they are compared to me),sorry to babble on again,but the talent is still out there,but you can't dismiss Metal,some of these kids are amazing players who have learned from previous generations & in lots of cases moved it on.

I could go on forever,but that'll do for now :)

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I agree with you Old-Rocker.  There's a lot of talent out there in many of these bands.  My concern is that the market has become so fragmented and specialized that I wonder if it will ever again produce artists who are willing to branch out and expand their reach and creativity into other styles.  I truly miss the days when a noteable artist from a popular band would sit in as a session player on someone else's album from a different genre.  That doesn't seem to happen so much anymore.

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Hi,DunedinDragon.I missed you post while I was typing mine,i have been trying to talk our Drummer(32)into trying V-Drums for that long i've given up.

I wish Drummers(of all ages)would stop this almost neanderthal fixation on what is basically a stone-age instrument,if every Guitar & Bass player was still using 16th century tech with Guitars,where would Rock be today.

I know the feels not the same,(like steel strings don't feel like Gut strings)so adapt :).

As you probably read in my previous post,i've just realised something's suddenly gone amiss with my hearing,but at 32,our drummer also has hearing problems,so instead of getting rid of his Accoustic kit & Metal cymbals,he's started wearing industrial ear muffs :huh:which make his kit sound(to him) like planks of wood being hit with rolled up socks etc.,must be so much better than these V-Drums 

Oh to leisure491,the doctor thinks a build up of ear wax,which is being vibrated(or something with Bass & volume),so hopefully it will be cleared with irrigation :unsure: ,thanks for asking.

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Oh man don't get me started on ham fisted deaf drummers. I've offered to buy ours a drum shield, practice pads in an effort to save my hearing. At practice I can't stand too near the kit or my ears will be ringing (again) the rest of the night. Our bass player too - he is a bit older and pops the hearing aids out during practice - makes for playing way too loud and not listening to what he is playing. So I "hear" ya. ;)

 

Hope its just wax and he is gentle with the vibrator. :D

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A funny, sad, but true story about electronic kits....

 

A few months ago we had a guest band come in.  And rather than bring all their equipment we let them use some of our setup.  The group was actually a very good country band with fiddle, steel guitar, and an excellent nashville style guitar player.  The drummer had opted to use our electronic kit so our drummer set him up with a good patch.  While going through sound checks the steel guitar player made a comment about how bad the drums sounded, so I told the drummer to select his worst sounding, trashiest patch he had, so he selected a kit named "Garage Kit" which sounded like something you'd find at a pawn shop.  The steel guitar player said, "yeah, that's MUCH better"!!!!

 

I guess if you've played with nasty, trashy drum sounds your whole life being on stage with kit that sounds like you're in a recording studio with a perfectly tuned and mic'd drum kit must sound like crap to you....

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Ok, I need to chime in on this one.  My main instrument is guitar but a close second is drums.  I play in two bands and play drums in one of them.  I've tried the electronic drums.  They don't do it for me for several reasons. 

 

One is you are at the mercy of sound equipment and the person running it.  Secondly, a properly tuned and properly played acoustic drum set sounds better and provides better dynamics.  At least using acoustic drums I don't need to rely on someone else to screw it up for me.

 

There's good reasons for both choices.  Like any instrument, you have to tune it and play for it to sound good.  I guess electronic drums fixes some of that problem.

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You're far more at the mercy of the soundman with an acoustic kit if you're going through the PA than you would ever be with an e-kit.  At least with an e-kit you have total control over the mix, timbre, EQ, resonance, sensitivity (to address your dynamics problem) etc. of each piece of the kit which is FAR more control than any soundboard has.  And even if you don't go through the PA, sending the e-kit through a good FRFR on-stage speaker will still project better than any un-mic'd kit but with perfectly studio-tuned samples and mixed to perfection if you're adept at the controls of the e-kit brains.

 

I run into drummers all the time that downplay e-kits because they "tried" them, yet when they play our kit which has been setup by our drummer who knows his way around the controls, they love it.  It's kind of like the guy that plugs in and "tries" an HD500X and says he didn't like it because he couldn't get the sound he wanted.  Yet he never took the time to understand the parameters and how to set things up to get the sound he wants.

 

An e-kit is basically a HD500X for drums.  It takes some investment of time in order to understand how to get the best out of them.

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Sorry, haven't heard e-drums that sound as good as real drums yet.  Not saying it couldn't be done, just haven't seen or heard it yet.  Believe me, I'd like to see it.  It gets old tuning drums.  Just like I get tired of lugging my Marshall amps around too.  Still haven't got a patch into an FRFR system that is as good.  It's close and getting closer. 

 

Glad to hear someone has it working and getting good results though.  Gives me hope...

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I think a lot of that discrepency comes from what our ears are "trained" to hear in a live environment.  In most cases we expect to hear the ambient noise from the drums, or even guitar amps, which is typically all filtered out in studio recordings, which is what is used for all sampling and modeling.  So therefore when we hear the filtered out sound typical of a studio recording being played live our brain tells us something is missing.  But our brain wouldn't register the same complaint were it to hear those same drums or amp on a studio recording played through a PA because it's not "live".  At least that's my theory.

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Hey guys, I commented earlier, agreeing with what some of you have already said:

 

You're old.

 

But that's as far as the statement really went. I didn't go on to say I dislike older people, think you guys are stupid geezers or don't think anything you have to say has no weight in the world today.

 

Why would I be here if I didn't care or wasnt interested in anything an older person has to say?

 

Don't resent being old, because I don't resent it at all. In fact, besides Old-Rocker talking about it, and after I seen a thread polling everyone's age, anyone's age here hasn't crossed my mind. Same as if someone were a different in race, religion, gender, sexual preferences, fantasy sports fanatic, doesn't matter.

 

I see a forum full of guitar players, Pod users, and awesome experiences.

 

Rock on, you old bastards!

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Hey guys, I commented earlier, agreeing with what some of you have already said:

 

You're old.

 

But that's as far as the statement really went. I didn't go on to say I dislike older people, think you guys are stupid geezers or don't think anything you have to say has no weight in the world today.

 

Why would I be here if I didn't care or wasnt interested in anything an older person has to say?

 

Don't resent being old, because I don't resent it at all. In fact, besides Old-Rocker talking about it, and after I seen a thread polling everyone's age, anyone's age here hasn't crossed my mind. Same as if someone were a different in race, religion, gender, sexual preferences, fantasy sports fanatic, doesn't matter.

 

I see a forum full of guitar players, Pod users, and awesome experiences.

 

Rock on, you old bastards!

So,it's all my fault that old age is rife on the forum is it?i resemble that remark :D  :lol:

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Hi.leisure491.It went as good as i could have hoped,a build up of wax in the left ear,that somehow moved & blocked up the ear,then the right ear is solid with wax,so ear drops for 2 weeks then clearing out.

Maybe I won't be as deaf as i think i am after it's done,we live in hope :) .

Thanks for asking.

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