RRMark Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 More for the learners like me. I have found a lot of the fizz energy is lower down the frequency spectrum than the very highs. Using hi cut all the way down to remove the fizz, particularly on high gain presets, takes out the very high frequencies where there isn't a lot of energy anyway, losing detail and making the tone a bit muddy. Not a straight fix, this experiment is helping me to get my head around the numbers and maybe useful to others. Using a high gain preset, e.g. '06D Line6 Elektrik' has a space, add the 10 Band Graphic Eq block just before the reverb block, after the y-merge from the speaker cabs. Go to page 2 of the eq settings and dial 16kHz all the way down, to my admittedly gig beaten ears the sound is barely affected. Push the 16kHz knob to reset to 0dB. Now try the same with the 4kHz, to me this is nearer where a lot of the nastiness!? is going on. I think of it as that ripping a sheet of paper sound. Reset, then try the 8kHz knob. I quite like 4kHz -7dB with 2kHz +2dB and everything else flat. Using this i am beginning to get a better handle on how the different frequency numbers actually sound and am transfering my findings to the parametric eq for a wider bandwidth. Still a long way to go, I am sure it will vary from amp to amp, but as a general fix starting point suggestion... In the scenario above replace 10 Band Graphic eq with the Parametric eq, all default settings unchanged except: Hi Freq 5.5kHz, High Q 0.3, Hi Gain -5.0dB. Of course this will vary and depend on personal taste, the guitar used and the monitoring system. Loving this forum, I am learning a lot from some very insightful generous contributors and enjoying the polite helpful brotherhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I seem to recal a few people saying most of the amps have fizz in the 8k region. I'll have to try 4k. Thanks for the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tagmusenmagnus1 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 4k is right where our ears are most sensitive, so it would make sense, that these frequencies hurt your ear. But be sure that you can stil cut through mixes and so on, but I bet you already have that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb7170 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I've mentioned this before -- I found the harshness is due to my PA/Monitor speaker I use for stage volume was full range, but not flat response. The patches (even the demo patches) sounded good in the headphones, but not good through the speaker. Turns out the PA speaker has a midrange - vocal response "hump". I used the global EQ to find it and found I needed to cut about 8 dB at 3 kHz, and used a Q value of about 1.7 to get it to sound like the headphones. Now this is for my speaker, and I believe it could be different frequency and magic dB level cut for other brands & models. Once I did that, the harsh fizzy tones were vastly reduced, and I'm a happy camper - my JTV's sound much better, too. Side note - to help the JTV models out further, I found the Helix speaker & mic model and placement helps tons as well. They are a lot more natural sounding with the Global EQ and Helix amp/speaker/mic model tweaks I've done... Ideally, a spectrum analyzer could be used for the EQ speaker adjustment, but I just tweaked and compared to what I wanted. I made no other changes in low cut, low frequency, high frequency or high cut. I also assigned the Global EQ only to my 1/4" output line level send to my stage amplifier for that speaker. I do not have any EQ on the mic-level XLR send(s) to the FOH. So far the sound folks love the sound of my send to them. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_Igloo Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Everyone hears offending frequencies differently, but here's a fairly common trick: Add an EQ > Parametric block after the cab. Turn Page 2 > Knob 3 (High Gain) all the way up to +12.0dB. Things will sound horrible. Sweep Knob 1 (High Freq) up and down until things sound really horrible. You're now boosting the specific frequencies we're trying to remove. Press Knob 3 (Turn Gain) to return it to 0.0dB and then keep turning it lower until the offending frequencies begin to disappear. Optional: Turn Knob 2 (High Q) down for a smoother cut; turn it up (to 5.0 ~ 8.0) for a more surgical notch that affects fewer adjacent frequencies. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb7170 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 +1, DI that's the general method I used. Worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 DI. I used that method but always stayed above about 7kHz. Can't wait to try the 4kHz area. The vocal response hump EQ resonates with me. I think that might be an issue when I'm live. Thank's to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aepoc Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Everyone hears offending frequencies differently, but here's a fairly common trick: Add an EQ > Parametric block after the cab. Turn Page 2 > Knob 3 (High Gain) all the way up to +12.0dB. Things will sound horrible. Sweep Knob 1 (High Freq) up and down until things sound really horrible. You're now boosting the specific frequencies we're trying to remove. Press Knob 3 (Turn Gain) to return it to 0.0dB and then keep turning it lower until the offending frequencies begin to disappear. Optional: Turn Knob 2 (High Q) down for a smoother cut; turn it up (to 5.0 ~ 8.0) for a more surgical notch that affects fewer adjacent frequencies. Definitely going to have to try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrjr68 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 You're now boosting the specific frequencies we're trying to remove. Exactly.This is how I was taught to mix and EQ. I wish HELIX had a graphic EQ more like Waves Q10 And a C4 compressor while I'm at it. lol VST integration would be insanely awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 DI. I used that method but always stayed above about 7kHz. Can't wait to try the 4kHz area. The vocal response hump EQ resonates with me. I think that might be an issue when I'm live. Thank's to everyone.I know this may appear a bit strange, but... Many years ago I spent some time working with a roadie who constantly complained about hearing an annoying fizziness which eventually we figured out was located around the 7kHz area. Seems he had been working for years with various loud, loud, loud bands using crazy Sound Pressure Levels and the 7kHz thing actually turned out to be due to tinnitus. It's a clinical fact, you can look it up. Something to bear in mind guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I know this may appear a bit strange, but... Many years ago I spent some time working with a roadie who constantly complained about hearing an annoying fizziness which eventually we figured out was located around the 7kHz area. Seems he had been working for years with various loud, loud, loud bands using crazy Sound Pressure Levels and the 7kHz thing actually turned out to be due to tinnitus. It's a clinical fact, you can look it up. Something to bear in mind guys. Horrors!! I was really hoping it was due to a few of my worst designed presets. You mean the fact that I hear the fizz even when I am walking alone in the woods should be a clue that it is not caused by my Helix? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJH Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Part 3 in my series on the Helix back in 2016 demonstrates exactly that. It shows how to sweep to find the "rogue" frequencies and how to remove them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datacommando Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Horrors!! I was really hoping it was due to a few of my worst designed presets. You mean the fact that I hear the fizz even when I am walking alone in the woods should be a clue that it is not caused by my Helix? :DHa ha ha. That's very close to the old saying - "If a man is out walking in the woods, and there isn't a woman there to hear him, is he still wrong? 😠Seriously though, the frequency sweeping "trick" is a very old, tried and tested method of isolating the the offending signal. Although, this digital fizz discussion has gone on for a long time. IIRC similar threads were cropping up, many years back, on the Avid Eleven Rack boards, even to the point of checking out some of the same guitar stems mentioned in earlier threads on here (Chad Boston's Fizz video). Six years later we are all going over the same ground, check this: http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/how-to-make-amp-sims-sound-more-analog Yes, I just checked and the posts are still there about digital fizz being inherent in modelling equipment. http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=308564 Even has a smarta$$ quip about being able to remove the tinnitus effect with a PEQ? 😠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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