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Can The Stagesource System Really Replace My "old School" Rig?


Best Answer brianj402002 , 01 October 2013 - 02:50 PM

Well..I can honestly answer my own question now of "Can The Stagesource System Really Replace My "old School" Rig?" It has! Without a doubt! I am completely satisfied with this gear...more than satisfied actually...

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#41 brianj402002

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:49 AM

Hey There Jaminjimlp...

 

That's fantastic....Can't wait to hear about your first gig with the system..be sure to fill us in and a link to the youtube channel when you get your videos up! Have fun!!


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#42 Digital-sound

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:23 AM

I also will be waiting to hear...and see....

 

My concern probably wont be realized on a video.  Likely I will have to see.  Wattage and volume are not the issue.  I have downsized before to 15" subs, and 12" mains.  the mains were the nx55p and have a 1200watt amplifier in them, which is 550 watts program.  That wasn't really any problem for volume, especially when I ran 2/side.  the L3m's have slightly more amplification at PEAK, but probably also run continuous/program of about 650watts?  Just guessing.

 

My real concern is with the subs.  The NX720s sub also has a 1500watt amplifier (720 watts program/continuous).  But could never get the sound out of them.  The L3s has only 1300watts peak.  So probably not much more than my 15" continuous.  I will have to hear them.  We sounded great with the 15", but were always missing that big sound we got from the 18" subs.  One of those things that people don't even miss, but affects the overall sound of the band for sure.  Not at all volume, but that big, bottom end.  The LS801P are not used for their volume but that big, quality sound.  You can feel it and it is pleasant because it is big, but not loud.  Not at all uncomfortable feeling, but a good, quality sound.  I do think with two 12"/side, it is possible to get the sound.

 

I would really like to hear from anyone that has gotten a nice fat kick sound that is felt at low volumes, and is able to be pushed loud as well.  I am not convinced yet that I will get that sound  (and have been told by other engineer types that I wont.) 

 

But again.. it is something I have to test.  It may not be the same sound, but if it is a good sound, I am will be happy.  But looking at "peak" specs, I am comparing a 2500 watt, 18" sub against a 1300watt, dual 12" sub, and an 1800watt 15" speaker with a true 2" exit horn driver (which make a huge difference in vocals as well) against about 1450watt, dual 10" with  a 1" exit horn driver.

 

I really really hope they will live up to my expectations and compare with the gear I have for sound.  I know they exceed my gear in the technology end, and I can believe that will be a big part of them meeting my expectations.


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#43 ArneLine6

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:50 PM

D Boomer,
Can you tell me exactly where to find the " Loud PA" preset? . I have looked in the presets where I saw Small PA, Lounge Music, etc, but can't seem to find the Loud PA.

There are several presets that can help to get more level out of smaller speakers. For example "Small PA" cuts out low frequencies to take the burden of small speakers that could not produce these frequencies anyway and would just be pushed to their limit(er)s. Or "Punchy PA" uses the 4 band compressor to get more compact dynamics and perceived loudness.

To the point:

The preset "Loud PA" does not exist (yet)


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#44 Digital-sound

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:42 PM

There are several presets that can help to get more level out of smaller speakers. For example "Small PA" cuts out low frequencies to take the burden of small speakers that could not produce these frequencies anyway and would just be pushed to their limit(er)s. Or "Punchy PA" uses the 4 band compressor to get more compact dynamics and perceived loudness.
To the point:
The preset "Loud PA" does not exist (yet)


Are the presets on the speakers, or in the M20D? I have the M20D, but not the speakers......yet!
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#45 silverhead

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 05:59 AM

The presets are in the M20d.


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#46 litesnsirens

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:14 AM

Digital-sound, I'm almost a little nervous to tell you that you have nothing to worry about regarding the L3s because we may play different venues and have different ideas about what good sound is.  With that caveat in place, good sound is still good sound and the L3s is a scientific miracle in my opinion.  Hopefully once you get yours, you can chime in here and concur with my statement.

 

I say scientific miracle because I really don't know how they do it.  I can totally see getting lots of great bass response out of a 2X12 sub but usually any sub that sounds this good is really heavy.  These things are really light (for subs).  The L3s just kicks, and compared to other subs I have used it's the easiest to dial in.  Probably because there is no dialling to be done.  If I get a second L3s, that may change as I may have to lower the master volume on the two of them.  Then again, maybe not, maybe Line 6 has factored that in and with 2 online they may configure themselves to give the most balanced sound with two.  I just know that with other subs I have used there was lots of tweaking to try get the most impact without getting mud.

 

I have done a gig where I rented a second L3s because I was doing sound for another band in a big room.  I didn't have to do anything but I thought maybe since it was a huge room the second L3s was needed.  I did have to turn down the overall volume.  Usually with a single L3s I can run the master at unity gain or -5db for the average club... but with the second L3s online and in a room 3 X the size of most clubs I had to run at -10db.  Somehow that second sub seems to create a lot more overall headroom, there could be other factors and that's a very limited anecdotal observation but the over all thing I learned is two L3t and two L3s as FOH will cover more ground than most average bands get to play.


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#47 dboomer

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

There are several presets that can help to get more level out of smaller speakers. For example "Small PA" cuts out low frequencies to take the burden of small speakers that could not produce these frequencies anyway and would just be pushed to their limit(er)s. Or "Punchy PA" uses the 4 band compressor to get more compact dynamics and perceived loudness.

To the point:

The preset "Loud PA" does not exist (yet)

 

 

"Punchy PA" uses the 4 band compressor to get more compact dynamics and perceived loudness.

To the point:

The preset "Loud PA" does not exist (yet)

OOPs  ... i forgot.  I made a small modification on mine and called it "Loud PA".  The factory setting is called "Punchy  PA".

 

Anyone want my mod?



#48 brianj402002

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 03:33 PM

Thanks for the clarification Don...I was at the local dealer today to have another peak and ask a few more questions. There is a bar nearby that is in the midst of renovating and have purchased this system for their house PA...hopefully they re-open soon so I can have a listen.

 

The in house tech at the local shop was telling me that he has done a couple of shows with the Stagesource system and is completley blown away by it. At 50 feet away there was very little loss in the mids...clean rich bass..just over all ecstatic about it. I'm getting more excited every day..hahah :D


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#49 RonMarton

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 04:46 PM

...Somehow that second sub seems to create a lot more overall headroom, there could be other factors and that's a very limited anecdotal observation but the over all thing I learned is two L3t and two L3s as FOH will cover more ground than most average bands get to play.

 

Just a little "on the road" observation, here guys...

 

Regardless of brand or type, it's been my experience that the addition of more "sub" capacity has invariably raised the perceived overall full bandwidth loudness of any rig far more than the actual increase in "sub power" would suggest ...and that's been without any

  1. Change to existing mid-top array/s and/or
  2. Access to any potential "smart" re-allocation of resources via Line 6 Link.   

Even after all these years, what I find truly surprising about this happy psychoacoustic effect is the way that better damped and radiated bass seems to "clean up" and add "punch" to the higher frequencies ...and not only that, but conversely, less clarity in the mids and tops often seems to rob bass material of its "punch" and "attack".

 

When you add the fact that the devices we call "subs" are almost always specifically filtered from radiating anything truly "subsonic", (below 20 Hz, with input to them generally having hardly any material below about 30 Hz) what we routinely achieve "on the road" seems more and more like "alchemy" ...and less and less like "science". :rolleyes:   


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#50 jaminjimlp

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 10:16 AM

Okay we had our first gig yesterday with the m20D and 2 - L3T's / 2- L3S's and 3- L2M's [for monitors] and turned out pretty good, some things that happened  like whenever I was going to hook it up I was having little trouble and realized that my drummer and plugged in the L6 link to one of the xlr inputs on a L2M so I only saw half the speakers in display window. It who was an extremely hot and humid yesterday here in Georgia and I was sweating like a dog [and trying not to sweat all over the equipment]. I just felt like I was under pressure get the gig going and then I had forgot my power conditioner and all the power cables for the speakers that were in a rack case :wacko: . I had a pretty good tweaked setup at practice but then I was having problems recording I read thread about recording problems and tried the solution that said it was the "best answer" and when I did that I did a factory reset and when I used the scene backup and still had the same problem so I had to create new scene from scratch [all the eq and settings gone] then the recording was working the night before but when I tried it at the gig all I got was the main out recording everything else was blank but the sound was really good. I didn't didn't realize that I had the sub on the left side set to reference [should have been right automatically but was most likely caused by the drummer plugging it in to the xlr] till the band after us got started. when we finally did get it the sound going it was awesome with a mp3 track. We were outside and set up under two 10 by 10 tents because we had a 40 percent chance of rain but it didn't. I had a sub set at the end of each tent and the bass was roaring :o  my goodness and couldn't hear my monitors I tried to tweak a little between songs but still I don't have a stupid iPad so I can't really do tweaking like I need to. I look forward to getting the system tuned in so the settings will only need minor tweaking.

 

So Hear is what I think:

 

1.It's Stinkin' LOUD and CLEAR!!!! :D Some friends went around the trailer park to talk with some folks and told me even at a few hundred yards away it very clear and that's through tress and trailers.

2.Plenty of BASS, we replaced a B52 matrix 1000 system and it had pretty good bass for 1 - 15" sub even outside.

3.when I get a good mix locked in and the scene saved it will be a cinch to set up and play 

4.A mp3 track sounded phenomenal!!! which lets me Know how we could sound.

 

My Fault:

 

I didn't have an iPad {M20D should have had Andriod support and wifi built in right out of the box for $2K} a snake [don't want to use a snake any more]

Left the rack case at home and had to send the wife after it which threw us behind and made me feel a little rushed to stay on schedule so I didn't do what you should to set up sound.

 

Also:

 

I need to get set up somewhere (big room or auditorium) and have and ample amount of time to get a scene set up that I use as a starter for most gigs. 


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May you be blessed and our Lord Jesus keep you!!!


#51 Digital-sound

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 09:14 PM

Well, it is one step towards a easy set up with good sound. I am one of the lucky ones with recordings I guess. I plugged an SD card in and hit record pretty much. It's too bad to hear so many have problems.

I must say though, I am very pleased to learn a store near me rents these speakers. I will be picking some up myself and running them through a few setups. Pub, hall, large pub, and a DJ gig. I am going to get the two l3t's and two l3s's. probably only use one sub in the smaller pub and for the DJ gig, but will be good to check out the set up with two of each speaker.

I will update when I have tried them. Really looking forward to how they compare to what I have. I know what I have will be more, but I am pretty convinced these will be much better quality, and do what I want 95% of the time. For the other 5%, well....like I said, a store nearby rents them and I can double up if needed.
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#52 brianj402002

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:42 AM

Hey Digital-sound...I was debating on whether or not to get the L3T's or the L3M's. Would the mixer kind of be redundant if using the M20d?


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#53 RonMarton

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:57 AM

...Would the mixer kind of be redundant if using the M20d?

 

If funds allow, this old fogey would always rather have the option of just one "extra" mixer that would allow the show to go on (albeit with reduced facilities) in the (admittedly unlikely) event of a main mixer's "non arrival" or "melt down".

 

Also, there always seem to be those solo or duo gigs that crop up at "short notice", where it can be really handy to load just one box with a couple of mics, their stands and a few other "bits and pieces".

 

Having the ability to cover two smaller gigs simultaneously is also no bad thing, I reckon.


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#54 Digital-sound

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:00 AM

Hey Digital-sound...I was debating on whether or not to get the L3T's or the L3M's. Would the mixer kind of be redundant if using the M20d?


Actually, I meant to type L3M because, yes for me the mixer would be redundant and I would likely never use it. I plan on only using them for a band, FOH and never for a solo or duo act. Which is where the mixer would come in handy.

I plan on getting L3M's and L3S's.
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#55 RonMarton

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:02 AM

Different strokes for different folks !  :)


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#56 jaminjimlp

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:36 AM

If you have 2- L3t's or 2-L2t's you could L6 link them and use the on board channel strips and rca's and have 8 channels in stereo in a pinch with the right adapters to get some stuff plugged in to the rca connections


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#57 brianj402002

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:15 PM

Makes sense...however...when purchasing a complete system...I think I'll save a few $ wherever I can..lol ;)


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#58 litesnsirens

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:51 PM

I think the difference is only like $90 bucks each.  I have the mixer in all my speakers, two L3ts and 2 L2ts.  I play in 3 different bands and we each with a different rehearsal space.  When my main band rehearses at my house we just run through the system.   At the other locations, I will take an L2t and plug my GR-55 into one channel and my Voice Live 2 into the other channel and voila, my own little PA that cuts through against acoustic drums and guitar amps.  I don't even need to tilt it up or anything just set it on the floor behind me.  If you're never going to use it, save the $90 per speaker, but if you want the full scalability from the smallest to the biggest it's a cool feature.


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#59 brianj402002

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

Hey litesnsirens...I have a GR-55 as well...I was waiting to see how that works with the M20d!! Do you set it up as a keyboard in the mixer?  And you are right about the price difference. I was kind of floored when I found out that the L3T's were only a few bucks more...surprising..So...if I'm spending $10k ...what's a couple hundred bucks for the added versatility...


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#60 litesnsirens

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

Hey Brian, I think I have it set up as a guitar modeller on the M20d.  The majority of the tones I use are guitar based with some synth, piano, organ, sax, horns etc etc etc sprinkled in here and there as needed.  I don't imagine it would make much difference which setting you use be it guitar modeller or keyboard, be it GR-55 or HD500 the modelled guitar/amp tones sound crazy good through these speakers.


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