I'm in the POD hate phase

[kpsion]

Hi guys

 

I'm posting recently in this forum , and i've read lots of user are in a love and hate situation, i think i'm in the hate period.

 

 

Trying to achevied some metal tone with a pod pro hd x , i think i had all possible trouble

 

Not looking for a stoner vintage like sound , still the same

 

 

As a result of that , what's the satisfaction provided by this gear ? 

 

 

There so much thing to complaint with this units :

 

• Default settings for amp are near stupidity , one case volume drop, another case frequency response  is just a non sense (only bass, or only harsh)
• Mic and cab sim are also a nonsense, mic and cab seems to be simulated as they are, the capitalism way, enter the room ,plug the mic , put the knob to 7 and record, too much bass too much harsh, too much fizz
• Overdrive break up, is just awfull , just the moment attack bring saturation is a big digital moment.
• Stomps are the same you cannot rely on default setting
• Amp are the same ie : Marschal JCM 800 seems to be usable only at 0 drive, ok great.... so why putting knob
• Pod version x displays some dsp limits 
• Pod is usable on everything, amp, PA...  I tried direct in an amp ouch..., in a power amp with a cab ouch, PA is  is less painfull, so you have to tweak, twik and twik

 

These units been sold as swiss knife for guitar sound, so ok you canno't await  a real tube boutique amp... despite Line6 marketing... but anyway, here's the blame is that when you want a sound it's a one week nightmare to achieve something that do not push creativity. One week to correct problems in this unit.

 

When you buy an amp sim with cab sim and mic, do you really need sub bass ? or mud ?

 

 

Sorry to complain, but i feel like either my unit is broken, or eitheir my hasse been 

[cruisinon2]

There is a steep learning curve, no doubt. And yes, the factory presets are basically useless. I wasn't thrilled early on, either. Much of it depends on the rest of your rig...are you plugging into a combo, power amp and cabinet, FRFR speaker and/or straight to a PA, just headphones? Choices of cab and mic model, and especially the output mode (combo/front, studio-direct, etc) will drastically change your sound depending on what you're running through.

 

There is no escaping the experimental phase though. A "plug-and-play" unit, it's not.

 

If you provide a little more info about the rest of your gear, suggestions will be a little easier to make.

[DunedinDragon]

Maybe you need to back up a bit and get your bearings.  When I first got my POD I was a bit frustrated at first trying to flesh out settings.  One set of videos that really helped me get a good handle on things were the ones by Peter Hanmer.  In particular the one entitled 'POD HD500X Demonstration Part 2 - Peter Hanmer".  You can find it on YouTube, just search for the name.  I'd post a link to it but apparently there's a problem between my configuration and what the forum software expects in that regard.

 

In that particualar video he goes through step-by-step in how he set up his Marshall JCM 800 sound using a Les Paul Standard.  You could use this to go through each step and duplicate what he's doing and compare the sound he's getting with what you're getting.  I will say that I did make a couple of corrections outside of what he's covering due to the fact I'm using an FRFR speaker setup.  So I needed to tame some of my high end and low end outputs across the board for all amps using the Global EQ.  But his video has really been a hallmark in helping me understand how to approach building my own patches.

[kpsion]

Hi guys

 

Thank you for taking time to answer my bad mood :)

 

My concern is plugging into an FRFR system

 

I've recently bought an EV ZLX12P  active monitor, at the beginning everything was fine, and maybe after my wishes  raised, with better sounding, but i find all my sounds crappy when cranking Active monitor

 

I've was trying with uberschall to build a stoner grainy sound and this ends up plastic lollipopy crappy something :)

 

So sometimes as you said both, this experimentation period is really frustrating...

 

 

Now i think i've hit Active speaker input too hard (both preamp are at zero (between line and mic)) that maybe the cause

 

 

 

But even calmed down, i feel like Line 6 really missed something on "software finalization"  , at least providing an even sound baseline and spectrum  for amp style category  :)

[brue58ski]

Sounds like you need some EQ. Here's the link to the video mentioned earlier.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ9v7SCCt_c&feature=youtu.be

[DunedinDragon]

Using an FRFR system can be tricky.  I too was frustrated at first when I started using my unit plugged into my DXR12 active monitor.  But here's a rundown of what I found worked for me:

 

Set the volume on your monitor to 50% (12 o'clock position)

Leave your DSP controls on their default settings and make all your corrections on the POD

Use the 1/4" (mono) line out from the POD into the ZLX-12P input.

Access the global settings on your POD (press and hold the View button) and use the right arrow to page over to page 11 and set your Low Cut to 100 Hz and your High Cut to 8.5 Khz.  These may vary a bit depending on your speakers response but this takes out the very low and very high frequencies so the speaker responds more naturally to the frequencies used by guitars.

Use the left arrow to go back to page 4 on the setup menu and ensure the output mode is set to STUDIO/DIRECT.  Press the View button to exit the setup menu.

Make sure your guitar in switch on the POD is set to normal and your 1/4" out is set to line.

 

After setting things up this way you should be able to use your amp models (not pre models) and effects normally.  Typically the master volume on my POD stays around the 11 o'clock position when I'm using it stand alone to setup patches, and slightly higher at just below the 12 o'clock position when I'm playing live.  When I set up a patch I normalize the volume output of the patch to get the same relative volume between all patches.  Generally speaking I prefer to not max out the volume setting on the amp.  I first get everything sounding right as far as gain and effects, then once I get the general sound where I want it, I'll normalize the volume.  Typically I always have a Studio EQ as the last effect in my chain to make final tweaks on low frequencies, high frequencies or overall gain.  I'll also sometimes correct the volumes between patches using the volume on the mixer.  Sometimes it's a combination of both mixer and Studio EQ.

 

Anyway, that's about it for how I set things up and it works pretty well for me.  You may have to fine tune a bit for your monitor's response characteristics, but that should get you close.

[Smashcraaft]

[…] page 11 and set your Low Cut to 100 Hz and your High Cut to 8.5 Khz.  These may vary a bit depending on your speakers response but this takes out the very low and very high frequencies so the speaker responds more naturally to the frequencies used by guitars.

Don´t be afraid to reduce the HighCut to values around 6.5 kHz just to hear what happens.

Try a value which first seem to be to much, just to get back later and check the HighCut with fresh ears again!

 

Adjust the GEP back to 8.5 kHz and dial in the HighCut you liked using the MidFocus-EQ. 

[kpsion]

Hi 

 

I made a try this morning and yes was way better, i've lower Speaker input sensitivy to half the line sensitivity zone.

 

 

On GEC :

 

• HP at 90hz
• High : a 4db bell cut at 4khz
• on LP at 9khz

 

 

it start sounding not too bad

 

 

 

Doing so , using GEC, don't you feel it kills a bit reverbs effect ?

 

And another question on low mid  do you make so cut around 300k - 800k to  open the sound ?

[Smashcraaft]

And another question on low mid  do you make so cut around 300k - 800k to  open the sound ?

I´m interested in users PEQ default settings too (I have to take look at mine later). 

[DunedinDragon]

I haven't personally felt much loss in reverb, but I suppose that's dependent on the type of reverb you use.  Generally I stick with the plate reverb for most of what I do, but yours may vary depending on what you use.

 

That's personally why I leave myself some pretty good headroom on setting my GEQ.  I could probably lower the high cut similar to what smashcraft has, but I use a wide variety of patches along with different guitars.  Some of which I may want more top end particularly when finger picking on a hollow body electric for example to get a bit more articulation.  If I don't want that much top end I can always cut it within a given patch using some other EQ effect.

 

As far as your other question about opening up the sound I'm unclear what you're asking.  I'm assuming because you said low mid you're talking about 300Hz to 800Hz.  You could address that pretty easily on a patch by patch basis with a parametric EQ, or if you wanted to apply it to all patches on the POD you could do that in the GEQ by setting the mid band frequency at around 550 hz and widening the Q to maybe a value of 1.5 then lowering the gain to taste.  You might have to play a bit with the Q value to confine it to what you're looking for.

 

Again, I limit what I do in the GEQ because that will apply across the board to every patch, and I want to leave myself some latitude for fine adjustments within each patch, but your needs may be different than mine.

[AlexKenivel]

I used to do the same thing with my GEQ, but then I realized it started interfering with patches that use particle reverb and octave reverb (I make a lot of spacey sounds), and I was sick of having to remember (or I'd just forget) to turn the GEQ off for my bass patches.

 

Now I just use EQs in the chain.

[jpdennis]

+1 to DunedInDragon and brue58ski concerning Peter Hanmer.  I had read and searched and read and searched some more before going to a higher end POD; in my case it is the HD500X.  I was quite fortunate to find the Peter Hanmer videos late 2015 as I applied the techniques to my tube amps before purchasing the Line 6 POD.  I really love and want the tone I hear in my head but even getting it to an amp always was like 2 points off center.  I have no experience with the POD direct to floor monitor so I have no insight there.  But I can say that Mr Hanmer really has helped me with the tone in head to tone in POD connection.  And I have found these forums, though I am new to this one, is filled with some great people with knowledge AND experience.  Well I have to leave the forum and get back to readying my POD.  L8r

 

Dennis

[joel_brown]

If you get some time try these FRFRSamples.  I'm not saying they're great but it makes for a starting to point to help you get started and understand it a little better.  Covers single and dual amp design plus clean, blues, rock and heavy styles.  Hopefully something will help point you in the right direction.  LOTS OF TWEAKING WILL STILL BE REQUIRED.

 

http://www.ChildrenOfTheGraveBand.com/FRFRSamples.zip

 

These tones were made with a PODHD Desktop but the Zip file includes a converter util.

[Old-Rocker]

Hi,kpsion.I've copied the text below from your post above,i don't understand the 2 quotes(nothing unusual in that :) ),can you tell me what the 2 quotes mean,especially,quote B:

Thanks.

 

A : "to build a stoner grainy sound"

 

 

B : "Now i think i've hit Active speaker input too hard (both preamp are at zero (between line and mic)"

[DunedinDragon]

I think kpsion's reference to the active speaker inputs had to do with him having too high line input sensitivity on his FRFR speaker.  If you look up a few responses you'll see where he turned it way down and things began to clear up for him.  Basically he was overdriving the line input gain on the powered speaker.

[kpsion]

hi all

 

yep that s it in speaker input gain i have a middle position marked as 0 so i ve set gain here.

 

but i was wrong cause 0 is the max line level and the lowest mic level... so yes i saturate inputs.

 

now i set it really low and it quite clean.

 

 

For grainy sound i mean the overdrive texture. some distortion are really tight like metal ones, and i was looking for the opposite.

 

Thank for answer on GEC.. that was my thoughts, maybe it would have been great putting it in the mixer section to avoid using a slot for an eq

[Old-Rocker]

Thanks,for the info,gentlemen.

[kpsion]

You're welcome  ;)

 

Stil in the hate phase, but a positive and constructive hate ... i've self challenged my pod modeled distortion stomp.

 

Finding that either overdrive and amp drive sound tend to sound fizzy, i've bought an inexpensive Tube stomp  IRL and plugged it as an fx loop right before amp sim (where i used to put a disto effect bloc with pod buit in stomp)

 

 

I must confess this f**lollipop***g  change everything.

 

 

Firstly i get the tube feel and grittle, and definition

 

Secondly this kill the fizzyness

 

Here is the monster  B)

 

 

 

I consider go on using it as it really enhanced the overall pod sound

 

Amp sim nicelly respond to the tube driven dirty signal, really love it.

 

So maybe i'll keep modeled stomp for rehearsal as convinience is a massive argument pro POD, and for Live and recording i'll just add my tube stomp.

[Smashcraaft]

On which value do you use each controller of this unit?

[cruisinon2]

I'm a bit intrigued myself...though I've grown accustomed to being able to assign gain parameters of the modeled distortions to the expression pedal. Not really looking forward to having to bend down and twiddle knobs on the floor if I want to change things up.

 

But for $50, it might be something worth having in the stable....

[kpsion]

For the moment ( i have 2 days ago...)  I've set eq to 5 on all band

 

and played with gain and volume : 

 

• Gain to max and master to 5 would tend to make a muddy fuzzy tone
• lower a bit the gain and max the master tend to make a precise hard/metal tone

 

i lowered a bit bass to clean up sound

 

But in any case sound is really natural and tubish

 

 

Edit : Yep Cruisinon2, i completly agree, that a half solution.... , as opposite the cool point is that you can use low gain setting and use Modeled stomp before, it really enhance the stuff

[kpsion]

and that the main point i want to raise...  :) , cause i do not have stock options in behringer, i've choosed this tube driver as it has really good review despite a very first entry price,  this really make pod hd pro sound great for drive part.

 

 

Even with flanger effect going through the external stomp, compressor or drive for solo. Even again with various amp sim i really feel global sounding is great . I've tried with bogner uberschall it's gives a massive organic drive sound.  Treadplate wow just a killer sound really brutal.

[Smashcraaft]

Can you please provide sound samples with and without the unit?

[DunedinDragon]

This is becoming one of those threads that make me feel good that my needs are SOOO simple.... :P

[kpsion]

Hi

 

Yes i'll take time to make a comparison

[kpsion]

DunedinDragon

 

I don't know if you need hi gain, but when i try it's often ends up fizz  :D

[joel_brown]

Gott'a say that they Behringer VT999 is VERY interesting.  The reviews on it are great and it's inexpensive too.  Definitely want to hear some sound clips with and without it.  This might be what I need to convert to an FRFR system.

[DunedinDragon]

kpsion,

 

I don't really have a need for super high gain.  Most of what I need in that regard isn't a lot different than what Peter Hanmer shows in his video with setting up a JCM800.  In that style of music I usually prefer very tight and decently articulated overdriven tones similar to Joe Perry or Joe Walsh, so that's probably why I don't run into the problem.  Other than that most of the styles I play tend to be much cleaner or slightly crunchy, or pure jazz mellow.

[jpdennis]

I don't really have a need for super high gain.  Most of what I need in that regard isn't a lot different than what Peter Hanmer shows in his video with setting up a JCM800.  In that style of music I usually prefer very tight and decently articulated overdriven tones similar to Joe Perry or Joe Walsh, so that's probably why I don't run into the problem.  Other than that most of the styles I play tend to be much cleaner or slightly crunchy, or pure jazz mellow.

+1 DunedinDragon.

 

I am rethinking my patches as well by dumping the use of the distortion models for now only using the Treadplate if I get the sound I have mentioned in my recent thread to go bye-bye.  Otherwise for now the JCM800 seems to be real close to what I am wanting.  The seemingly natural breakup from these two amp models is pretty cool.  I just need to get to it and then play out for a feel of how it works through the PA.

 

Dennis

[kpsion]

Metal !!! Gain, more gain !!!  :)

 

I feel like pod disto start been fizzy way before entering Metal realm.

 

It's a pity i've not much time in this moment to play with my gear (work, work, work) but i've quickly tried this morning and Behringer VT999 vs Tube overdrive in pod are very similar

 

With a moderate gain not over 60 on tube drive for POD and 30% on vt999 sound is really close

[kpsion]

For samples, i'll try and make a video tonight to provide a feedback

[BillBee]

The VT999 is supposed to be real good with a few simple mods. I looked at those years ago and opted for the Seymour Duncan Classic Twin Tube (SFX-03?). Haven't chained it with the HD but on its own was really nice. FWIW. :)

[cruisinon2]

+1 DunedinDragon.

 

I am rethinking my patches as well by dumping the use of the distortion models for now only using the Treadplate if I get the sound I have mentioned in my recent thread to go bye-bye.

The Treadplate is so over-the-top in the gain department, you really don't need anything else in front of it anyway...unless you've got a guitar with seriously anemic pickups. It's one of the simpler amp models to use in that regard. When the mood strikes, I can get a real thick, scooped "Master of Puppets"-ish tone with just the Treadplate, drive around 65%-70% or so, a little reverb, and a para EQ to deal with the fizz.

[BBD_123]

kpsion

 

First, words of wisdom from leisure491:

 

>Very few of the worlds most famous leads are extremely distorted.

 

Second, I don't think you ever said what you were doing to get a high gain tone. What amp / pedal combos have you tried?

 

What tends to work best for me is to put either a Tube Drive, Tube Screamer, Line 6 Drive or Line 6 Distortion pedal in front of the amp. I use some pedal Output and pedal Drive with some amp pre-gain and sometimes some amp Master gain to get the required level of distortion. I use the pedal tone controls to pre-eq the tone. I use the amp tone stack and DEPs to fine-tune the tone. I rarely need more EQ in the chain. I've never run into the kind of problems you report.

 

I don't even use the high-gain amps much (Treadplate; 5150, Soldano overdrive etc). JCM-800 and often as not just the Plexi with a good cab / mic combo are just fine.

[cruisinon2]

I don't even use the high-gain amps much (Treadplate; 5150, Soldano overdrive etc). JCM-800 and often as not just the Plexi with a good cab / mic combo are just fine.

Yup...the JCM-800 is my go-to for most rhythm tones. I actually prefer it to the newer one in the model pack.

[DunedinDragon]

I normally go to the JCM-800 as well, but I have to admit I've used the Soldano overdrive channel to get some very tight high-gain on occassion...maybe even a bit tighter than the JCM.

[cruisinon2]

I normally go to the JCM-800 as well, but I have to admit I've used the Soldano overdrive channel to get some very tight high-gain on occassion...maybe

even a bit tighter than the JCM.

Most of my lead patches are the Soldano overdrive...that thing sings for leads. Not a fan for rhythm tones though.

[jeremybnz]

Another JCM800 user here, we A/B'd it at band practice with the Soldano and everyone agreed the JCM was the winner, my patch doesn't sound great on it's own, but in the mix with the rest of the band it sounds awesome :)

[AlexKenivel]

Hey I've finally uploaded some of my high gain tones. Link in my sig. No JCM800 though, I dislike any result that I get from it, but I've got the 2204, 5150, Treadplate, Engl, Solo100 OD, and Uber

[kpsion]

kpsion

 

First, words of wisdom from leisure491:

 

>Very few of the worlds most famous leads are extremely distorted.

 

Second, I don't think you ever said what you were doing to get a high gain tone. What amp / pedal combos have you tried?

 

What tends to work best for me is to put either a Tube Drive, Tube Screamer, Line 6 Drive or Line 6 Distortion pedal in front of the amp. I use some pedal Output and pedal Drive with some amp pre-gain and sometimes some amp Master gain to get the required level of distortion. I use the pedal tone controls to pre-eq the tone. I use the amp tone stack and DEPs to fine-tune the tone. I rarely need more EQ in the chain. I've never run into the kind of problems you report.

 

I don't even use the high-gain amps much (Treadplate; 5150, Soldano overdrive etc). JCM-800 and often as not just the Plexi with a good cab / mic combo are just fine.

 

 

For common lead tone, it depends, it depends also where you put the higain thresold.

 

Most youg guitarist, and i've done years ago, tend to think hi gain is all the way up , everything at 10, and the most important middle at 0  :D From my side i've lowered gain and balanced mid several year ago.

 

 

With POD i've tried several thing :

 

 

first approach : Input -> a comp/boost -> tube screamer -> Soldano or Treadplate and recently Bogner

Second one : Input -> tubesreame or tube driver -> Treadplate or Bogner

 

I set drive on each component quite low, for instance amp drive never goes past 35 cause it become synthetic after and same for stomp 0 on tubescreamer 

 

No problem with that already achieved a metal sound that sits in a mix , have dynamic that's not the issue.

 

My concern is really the mid high and high scope, where digital unit are often bad