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Any Worship Guitar Players Using Hd 500?


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#21 adessmith

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:40 AM

I use my HD500 with a JTV-59 every Sunday also. I run direct to the PA system, and use a personal in-ear monitor mix.
I love the flexibility to switch to acoustic tones on the JTV between, or in the middle of, a song.
I have just never settled into any patches that I really like for electric. I've never been really good at dialing in tones on amps, and you just have too many choices with these.

 

I just switched from an X3L, it took me about 3 years to finally get the X3L really dialed in the way I liked. I don't remember which models I was using on that, but they aren't available on the HD500.
I switched to the HD500 to get the midi control. We use backing rhythm tracks because we don't have drums or bass, and I use the HD500 to control Ableton-Live via midi.


On the Variax I'm using the magnetics for my electric tones, and use the Variax modeling only to get acoustic tones.
Most of our songs come from the CCLI top 100 (Mighty to Save, How He Loves, Glorious Day, Happy Day, Redeemed, Revelation Song, etc...) You know... Pretty standard praise and worship type stuff these days.... Matt Redman, Tim Hughes, Chris Tomlin, Lincoln Brewster....

 

I cant remember what my current tones are based on, but I believe it is one of the blackface models... Tube screamer, digital delay, wah and fuzz...
Whatever it is, I get a decent clean tone, a usable slightly overdriven tone, but just cant get a really heavy tone I like (however, I'm not quite satisfied with any of them)
I like to keep it down to 4 tones (including my acoustic one) to keep it in a single bank. Anything more than that just starts to get confusing.

 

 


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#22 Tboneous

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:07 AM

In my quest for the best tone, I came across this post. My question is, what is a "worship" guitar tone exactly?
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#23 mralmostpopular

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:36 AM

In my quest for the best tone, I came across this post. My question is, what is a "worship" guitar tone exactly?


Much of modern worship music is very similar in sound. It's very U2 inspired. There are sadly few stand-out guitarists with their own tone in this genre, Lincoln Brewster being an example of the exception.
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#24 Tboneous

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:48 AM

Ok...Lincoln Brewster is rockin the house! Thanx for hipping me to him! Is that what we are calling Worship Music? Sounds like pop to me.

I think that I am getting my terms a bit confused. Al Green has a worship song called "Jesus is Waiting" The guitar tone is clean and bluesy. Stryper has a worship song called "To Hell With The Devil". The guitar tone is very "Iron Maiden". Prince has a worship song called "Still Would Stand All Time" The guitar is straight out of the gospel play book. So I guess to my little simple mind, when I see the words "Worship music" and I see the responses on this post speaking of using their rig on "Sundays", I assume we're talking about music that is played in Church aren't we?

 

If so, wouldn't "worship music" be more of a subject rather than a genre? I love worship music, particularly Gospel. But when Chet Atkins was playing worship music with Elvis, he didn't sound like The Edge. Nor does Kirk Franklins guitarist if we are speaking of "Modern Worship Music". I'm not too much into Stryper. But God bless them for what they do... or did right? ;)

 

Have the words "Worship music" taken on a new definition that I am not familiar with?

 

"Much of modern worship music is very similar in sound. It's very U2 inspired..." So The Edge or David Gilmore are considered guitarists with a "Worship Tone"? Is it delay and chorus and reverb that makes a Worship tone? Steve Vai uses a lot of delay, chorus and reverb but I don't think he would be considered having a good "Worship Tone" 

 

I'm very confused :wacko:

 

I've seen "worship music" referenced on different forums and never quite knew what they were referring to. 

 

HELP!!!!


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#25 BigChas52

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:40 AM

Modern "worship music" could be used to describe a contemporary genre of music that is very accessible to the church assembly for sing-along.  It sets the tone for the bible readings, sermon, alter call, etc., to follow.  This is not to be confused with classic gospel, religious, or even contemporary Christian (which can also include "worship music")  It can get rather confusing for someone who hasn't been exposed, to get their heads and hearts around.  It's also called "praise & worship"

 

For example, in our church, we generally do two up-tempo "praise" songs to wake everyone up, and them two anthemic "worship" songs to set the mood for spiritual communion to follow.

 

I would consider one of the pioneering leaders of this type of worship (and it is truly worship) to be Hillsong Church, Sydney, Australia.  Some other leading artists would be Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, Darlene Zscheck,  and the recordings from Louis Giglio's "Passion Tours"  Some of Lincoln Brewster's songs would be considered "Praise and Worship", but others would be contemporary Christian rock.

 

Think of it as being the 21st century replacement for hymn singing.  It is still very much a sing-a-long though.

 

Much of the music can be covered with tones that use just a light touch of distortion/overdrive, and a touch (sometimes a heavy touch) of dotted-eight delay, with perhaps a little optional chorus or reverb thrown in to taste.  Throw in a little more overdrive and tone down the delays, for the infrequent leads.

 

When using guitars with humbuckers, I like to use AC30TB, I've found that AC30 tends to have a bit too much top end for single coils, and use Plexi or Park models.  It really comes down to what you like for your own sound.


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#26 Tboneous

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:10 PM

Thanx BigChas52!

 

I'll Youtube those names and get a feel for what folks are calling "Worship music" It seems to be a misnomer though. I'm not much of a church goer, but the ones i have been to have always had great music. None of which sound like anything like what The Edge would play. And they call their music worship as well. Still a bit confusing, but at least now I understand what some of you are referring to.

 

Now if you want to wake the congregation up, try playing some Living Sacrifice! They'll be payin attention for sure! Guaranteed! 


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#27 BigChas52

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:24 PM

It's not so much that they sound like the Edge and U2, it's the large reliance on the delays with only a tiny touch of distortion.


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#28 Tboneous

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

Got it!

 

Just having a hard time wrapping my mind around how that particular style of playing gets to claim the moniker of "Worship Music" when people worship in many different ways accompanied by many different styles of music. Some with and some without a "large reliance on delays and a tiny touch of distortion." But that's not important.

 

What is important is I have been trying to make the AC models sound good and I come up short every time. 

 

Care to share?


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#29 adessmith

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:15 PM

 so, wouldn't "worship music" be more of a subject rather than a genre?

 

Webster defines genre as:

: a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content

 

The whole idea of genre vs subject material is rather...... subjective.
Genres change over time, new genres are added, and old ones sort of disappear... It's nothing more than a way to categorize music.
When any "category" is referenced frequently enough, people start referring to it as a genre...

 

When someone mentions a "worship song", I think of a keyboard playing pads, an acoustic guitar, and a electric guitar with heavy reverb and dotted 8th delays just on the edge of breaking up.
Its typical of songs in a "worship set", usually during a church service.

 

It's a whole lot easier to say "worship tone" than try to describe the sound you want.
 


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#30 BigChas52

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:16 PM

For me, I've found that the AC models work best if your guitar has humbucker pickups.  To my ears, single coils and AC models are harsh and brittle.  For single coils I like to use some of the Marshall models, like the Plexi's and Park.


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#31 Tboneous

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:44 PM

When someone mentions a "worship song", I think of a keyboard playing pads, an acoustic guitar, and a electric guitar with heavy reverb and dotted 8th delays just on the edge of breaking up.

Its typical of songs in a "worship set", usually during a church service.

 


 

I think that you have made my point. When someone mentions a "worship song" YOU, think of keyboard playing pads...etc....."It's typical of songs in a "Worship set...." Well, it may not be so typical to someone else. Like me for instance. Prior to this discussion, when someone mentioned a worship song, keyboard pads, acoustic guitar and electric guitar with heavy reverb and dotted 8th delays just on the edge of breaking up were absolutely nowhere in the equation. But really, it's not that important.What is important is now, I know what is meant in guitar forums by "worship Guitar tones". It is a specific interplay between reverb, delay and sometimes distortion reminiscent of U2 where guitar tone is concerned. And even though I wouldn't categorize it personally as a "Worship Tone", I am now with the rest of the class in this discussion.

 

I may be dating myself with this, but this discussion reminds me of the "Flesh" colored Crayola Crayon. Everyone kept telling me it was flesh colored, but it never looked like my flesh.


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#32 Jhatem81

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:59 AM

Got it!

 

Just having a hard time wrapping my mind around how that particular style of playing gets to claim the moniker of "Worship Music" when people worship in many different ways accompanied by many different styles of music. Some with and some without a "large reliance on delays and a tiny touch of distortion." But that's not important.

 

What is important is I have been trying to make the AC models sound good and I come up short every time. 

 

Care to share?

here is some worship tone dude!

 

 


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#33 Tboneous

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:06 AM

here is some worship tone dude!
 

 

Thanx! Great tone! I think I've got it! Worship music and tone is just a rip off of Cold Play and 10,000 Maniacs! Substitute the word "Baby" with "Lord"...Bada Bing, Bada Boom....Worship Music! ......Nah....Just messin' with ya! But really, I got it!
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#34 Luigo69

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:05 AM

I'm very confused :wacko:

 

I've seen "worship music" referenced on different forums and never quite knew what they were referring to. 

 

HELP!!!!

 

I think that all of us that are True Worship Musicians understand that term exactly, in my opinion it does not refer to an specific tone but pretty much to a trend or a tone that has become somehow a standard or a go to tone that has proven to set a specific atmosphere

 

But, That term does not represent every worship musician, Let me tell you.. A few days ago I was looking for a "Funk" tone.. ( yes,To use at church..) well, I found out that there is a lot more than just one set tone.. I like a James Brown guitar tone I heard and was trying to replicate, I think all of this is based on a popular song or artist.

 

Is kind of talking about Mexican Music and think of Mariachis... If you know what that is.

 

By the way, I listened to your tunes, Very good tone from your Rig. :)


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#35 ftuller

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:50 AM

I'm using a gibson SG and the pod hd500 out to a fender blues jr that is mic'd into the sound system. Input 1 guitar, input 2 variax (for mute), output is studio/direct. I use specific banks per song mainly to align the tempos but also to fine tune the effects per song. Base patches go from left to right A-D: clean, crunch, medium/heavy crunch, gain.

 

Chain is tube comp (use 2 as a toggle, both at 100 thresh, output 12 always on and can toggle to 24 for a clean boost) -> tube screamer on clean and crunch patches (use 2 but not at the same time - one at 50 drive and 70 output, the other at 70 drive and 65 output) -> digital delay (always on - dotted 8th, feedback 10 for a single repeat, 50 mix for clean, 30 mix for the other patches) -> blackface 'lux vib full amp with volume at 40 -> mixer (panned hard left and right) -> tape echo to thicken a little (25ms, feedback 0, mix 50) -> spring reverb (set close to hall - decay 60, predelay 101ms, tone 40, mix 20).

 

For the gain patch I use classic distortion instead of the 70 drive tube screamer. Settings are drive 50 and output 20 (and bass 90).

 

I also adjust the drive on the blackface 'lux vib amp across the patches: clean 51, crunch 73, medium/heavy crunch 83, gain 73 with rat classic distortion.

 

For songs like Hillsong's Time Has Come and Fee's All Because of Jesus, to get a galloping delay I use the digital delay dotted 8th with feedback 10 and mix at 70 followed directly by (not dual) the analog echo quarter note with feedback 10 and mix at 50. I pull back on the gain a little for the galloping delay, otherwise the gallop isn't as clearly defined.

 

I also sometimes use the auto volume delay for swells.

 

In terms of the room, my church meets in a movie theater that seats about 300 people. Hopefully that helps. 


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#36 joemama78

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:09 AM

Tboneous, I think you have run face-first into an issue of "worship" as shorthand within a specific subgroup, namely white, suburban evangelicals, (though surely plenty of people in this subgroup are non-white, urban or rural, and outside of evangelicalism) particularily in America, the UK, and Australia.

 

We tend to draw from the same pool of artists, as named above (Chris Tomlin, Paul Baloche, Hillsong, etc) whose music receives airplay on Christian radio, who are featured at large conferences across the world, and whose music is backed by large Christian record labels. There are a lot of us who are descending onto music stores seeking guitars. amps, and effects that will help us to sound similar to the guitarists on those recordings.

 

Indeed worship music is any music that is used in religious gatherings or with the intent of bringing glory to God, but in the world of guitarists, a large number of us use the word "worship" as shorthand for the specific genre of music we've been discussing. So when you bring up other styles of music used in worship, we are not trying to pretend they don't exist or aren't valid; we just are speaking from inside of our realm of experience.


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#37 Jhatem81

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:24 AM

I'm using a gibson SG and the pod hd500 out to a fender blues jr that is mic'd into the sound system. Input 1 guitar, input 2 variax (for mute), output is studio/direct. I use specific banks per song mainly to align the tempos but also to fine tune the effects per song. Base patches go from left to right A-D: clean, crunch, medium/heavy crunch, gain.

 

Chain is tube comp (use 2 as a toggle, both at 100 thresh, output 12 always on and can toggle to 24 for a clean boost) -> tube screamer on clean and crunch patches (use 2 but not at the same time - one at 50 drive and 70 output, the other at 70 drive and 65 output) -> digital delay (always on - dotted 8th, feedback 10 for a single repeat, 50 mix for clean, 30 mix for the other patches) -> blackface 'lux vib full amp with volume at 40 -> mixer (panned hard left and right) -> tape echo to thicken a little (25ms, feedback 0, mix 50) -> spring reverb (set close to hall - decay 60, predelay 101ms, tone 40, mix 20).

 

For the gain patch I use classic distortion instead of the 70 drive tube screamer. Settings are drive 50 and output 20 (and bass 90).

 

I also adjust the drive on the blackface 'lux vib amp across the patches: clean 51, crunch 73, medium/heavy crunch 83, gain 73 with rat classic distortion.

 

For songs like Hillsong's Time Has Come and Fee's All Because of Jesus, to get a galloping delay I use the digital delay dotted 8th with feedback 10 and mix at 70 followed directly by (not dual) the analog echo quarter note with feedback 10 and mix at 50. I pull back on the gain a little for the galloping delay, otherwise the gallop isn't as clearly defined.

 

I also sometimes use the auto volume delay for swells.

 

In terms of the room, my church meets in a movie theater that seats about 300 people. Hopefully that helps. 

awesome man. Thanks!


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#38 pratikb

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:07 PM

I'm using a gibson SG and the pod hd500 out to a fender blues jr that is mic'd into the sound system. Input 1 guitar, input 2 variax (for mute), output is studio/direct. I use specific banks per song mainly to align the tempos but also to fine tune the effects per song. Base patches go from left to right A-D: clean, crunch, medium/heavy crunch, gain.

 

Chain is tube comp (use 2 as a toggle, both at 100 thresh, output 12 always on and can toggle to 24 for a clean boost) -> tube screamer on clean and crunch patches (use 2 but not at the same time - one at 50 drive and 70 output, the other at 70 drive and 65 output) -> digital delay (always on - dotted 8th, feedback 10 for a single repeat, 50 mix for clean, 30 mix for the other patches) -> blackface 'lux vib full amp with volume at 40 -> mixer (panned hard left and right) -> tape echo to thicken a little (25ms, feedback 0, mix 50) -> spring reverb (set close to hall - decay 60, predelay 101ms, tone 40, mix 20).

 

For the gain patch I use classic distortion instead of the 70 drive tube screamer. Settings are drive 50 and output 20 (and bass 90).

 

I also adjust the drive on the blackface 'lux vib amp across the patches: clean 51, crunch 73, medium/heavy crunch 83, gain 73 with rat classic distortion.

 

For songs like Hillsong's Time Has Come and Fee's All Because of Jesus, to get a galloping delay I use the digital delay dotted 8th with feedback 10 and mix at 70 followed directly by (not dual) the analog echo quarter note with feedback 10 and mix at 50. I pull back on the gain a little for the galloping delay, otherwise the gallop isn't as clearly defined.

 

I also sometimes use the auto volume delay for swells.

 

In terms of the room, my church meets in a movie theater that seats about 300 people. Hopefully that helps. 

 

 

Please upload your patches . :)


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#39 ftuller

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

Links to base patches are below plus a few different uses of delay such as the intro/verses for hillsong united's the time has come ("4 delay time"), the verses in fee's all because of Jesus ("4 delay"), the instrumental in hillsong live's cornerstone ("73 delay"). The gain lead patch is used on things like the intro to hillsong's healer and the solo in bethel church's one thing remains. The swell patch is used on hillsong united's with everything from the live in miami record. The clean patch also works well with this version of with everything.

 

I read some of the comments above on what is worship music or the worship genre. I agree that it's not confined to any style of music. I actually think of the musical style we're discussing here as more along the lines of 1970s progressive rock (lots of dynamics, detailed guitar work, solid keys, etc.). If anyone wants to get a good feel for the type of tone that's being discussed in this thread, check out on youtube a block of three songs that run together from the hillsong united live in miami album: from the inside out/a song to sing/with everything.

 

Comments are welcome and appreciated as I never seem to be 100% satisfied with the tone.

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225490/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225491/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225492/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225493/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225494/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225495/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225496/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225497/

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/225498/


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#40 Tboneous

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:27 AM

Tboneous, I think you have run face-first into an issue of "worship" as shorthand within a specific subgroup, namely white, suburban evangelicals, (though surely plenty of people in this subgroup are non-white, urban or rural, and outside of evangelicalism) particularily in America, the UK, and Australia.
 
We tend to draw from the same pool of artists, as named above (Chris Tomlin, Paul Baloche, Hillsong, etc) whose music receives airplay on Christian radio, who are featured at large conferences across the world, and whose music is backed by large Christian record labels. There are a lot of us who are descending onto music stores seeking guitars. amps, and effects that will help us to sound similar to the guitarists on those recordings.
 
Indeed worship music is any music that is used in religious gatherings or with the intent of bringing glory to God, but in the world of guitarists, a large number of us use the word "worship" as shorthand for the specific genre of music we've been discussing. So when you bring up other styles of music used in worship, we are not trying to pretend they don't exist or aren't valid; we just are speaking from inside of our realm of experience.

Makes complete sense! I really only wanted to know what was meant by worship music. I now have an answer and know what to think about when that discriptive is used. But for the sake of accuracy, even though this is completely beating a dead horse, what everyone is referring to as "Worship" really is nothing more than pop/rock a la Cold Play or even U2. But Hallelujah....I am now apart of the in crowd!
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