Connect HD500X to another HD500x?

[schweizt]

Has anyone connected one HD500X to another HD500X? Purpose would be using the 2nd HD500X only as an effects unit (storing a wide assortment of FX patches that are accessible on the fly). I currently use the FX loop on an HD500X to access additional FX pedals. Works great. However, the FX on the HD500X are so good, I would be happy to use them and ditch the additional high end pedals. I could also store a lot of "custom" FX patches that could be accessed by the first HD500X. It would save money and actually be more flexible. (I can only access one Timefactor setting at a time in a typical FX loop.) I can easily purchase another HD500X by selling some pedals. 

 

I am pretty sure it would work. It's a matter of what the correct settings would be on Unit 1 and Unit 2. I don't have a 2nd one to try it. Just wondering about the optimal way to patch the two HD500Xs together.

 

I *could* use the FX loop on Unit 1. I could I use FX send on Unit 1 to guitar in on Unit 2. Then send mono output from Unit 2 back to FX return on Unit 1. Is there a better way? I currently use stomp box setting with FX and get no noise. I want to avoid any "double modeling" issues that would mess up the tone of Unit 1.

 

Curious about the switch settings directly to the right of the Master knob on unit 2. I seriously want to do this. I just don't have the extra unit to play with the settings. Can someone set up up and let me know?

 

[silverhead]

Have you considered getting the Line 6 M9 or M13 instead of a second POD HD? The POD uses the M-series FX. The M9/13 can store presets/scenes. You would place it in your POD HD FX Loop. You could use one device for the Pre-amp FX and the other for post-amp depending on where in the preset you choose to place the FX Loop. You would connect them by midi to coordinate your presets on the two devices.

[schweizt]

No, I am totally unfamiliar with the M-Series. I will take a look at what they do. I should clarify that I run from my G50 wireless to my compressor, then gain/dist/fuzz pedals, and EP booster in *front* of my HD500X. (That would be unit 1.) The compressor is always on. The other pedals are on true bypass switches. I prefer these gain, boost, etc. pedals. I would be using the 2nd Unit for "post amp" effects in my chain. (I *am* using the amps in the HD500X.) I am not using any guitar amps. I run direct into FOH and it is a killer setup.

[schweizt]

I do want to make sure I avoid problems caused by "double modeling." I've run into that problem with other modeling units connected to a POD 2.0, HD500, and HD500X.

[AlexKenivel]

A 500X into another 500X. Sounds like a poor man's Helix. :)

 

if my reading comprehension is on par today, it sounds like you have most of your effects for the front of the amp as external pedals, so you could probably just get away with using the amp modeling and any post effects you want without running into any DSP limits.

[schweizt]

I have definitely hit DSP limits with the HD500X. Just using post amp FX.

How much DSP would I "get back" if the 2nd HD500X was only for effects and used no amp models?

 

The M13 allows only 4 effects together at one time. I realize other effects are instantly "available" in a "scene," but the limit is still 4 at one time.

The HD500X would theoretically be able to access 8 effects at one time.

 

Can an M13 handle any combination of effects without hitting DSP limits?

Would the 2nd HD500X be able to access any combination of 8 effects without hitting DSP limits if no amp models were being used?

[AlexKenivel]

These might help you out.

hd500 dsp test summary (table).pdf

HD500 Effects DSP Usage Estimations (collapsed version 1 page).pdf

[jandrio]

well with 2 hd500's, the possible combinations r really countless...
conventionally, guitar is feeding Unit1, Unit2 is connected via FX LOOP and output is thru Unit1 L+R outs.

however combining Unit1 L + Unit 2 L is also possible.

in extreme situations, where FOUR channels r available in the mixing console, using BOTH Unit1 L+R AND Unit 2 L+R, one can even have a QUAD signal, with 15 FX blocks + 4 amps :o

in the attached setlist, u can explore some of them.
Unit1 represents the 1st hd500, which accepts the guitar input.
Unit2 represents the 2nd hd500.


EXAMPLE 1: 3 amps with 15 FX blocks (patches 01A+01B)
guitar in Unit1, pathA1 with 1 amp+ 7 FX
Unit1 LOOP.SEND--> Unit2 guitar input, possible twin amp patch, total 8 FX--->
                            -->  Unit2.L+R 1/4 outs-->Unit1 LOOP.RCV L+R
get final outputs from: Unit1 1/4 Left+Right (stereo signal)
With this example u have a 3 amps arrangement with 15 FX blocks.

EXAMPLE 2: 4 amps with 15 FX blocks (patches 02A+02B)
guitar in Unit1, twin  amps + 7 FX
Unit1 LOOP.SEND--> Unit2 guitar input, twin  amps + 8 FX
get final outputs from:  Unit1 1/4 Left (mono signal with 2 amps)
                                    Unit2 1/4 Left (mono signal with 2 amps)
With this example u have a 4 amps arrangement with 15 FX blocks.

EXAMPLE 3: twin amps with 15 FX blocks (patches 03A+03B)
guitar in Unit1, twin  amps + 7 FX
Unit1 LOOP.SEND--> Unit2 guitar input, no  amp + 8 FX -->
                            --> Unit2.L+R 1/4 outs-->Unit1 LOOP.RCV L+R
get final outputs from: Unit1 1/4 Left+Right (stereo signal)
With this example u have a twin amps arrangement with 15 FX blocks.

Unit2 offers 8 FX blocks in front of AMP1 (PRE-POSITION).
Moving the FX LOOP, u can position the 8 FX blocks of Unit2 POST AMP1, or POST MIXER.

hope i gave u some possible arrangements, further improvisation is up 2 u

consult also foll link:
http://line6.com/support/topic/6087-pod-hd-pod-hd500-best-way-to-connect-both/

 

note that FX LOOP [SEND-RETURN-MIX]settings must b arranged accordingly (not as shown in the examples).

ps
i'll gladly bow to superior knowledge, here, if anyone's got it, but it seems that 3 or 4 amps arrangement is only feasible via twin hd500's and not helix.
but again  i'll quite happily be wrong :)

Twin HD500.zip

[schweizt]

Thank you! This helps me a lot! :)

Thanks for the DSP tables, too!

[jandrio]

u r welcome :)

[schweizt]

Have you considered getting the Line 6 M9 or M13 instead of a second POD HD? The POD uses the M-series FX. The M9/13 can store presets/scenes. You would place it in your POD HD FX Loop. You could use one device for the Pre-amp FX and the other for post-amp depending on where in the preset you choose to place the FX Loop. You would connect them by midi to coordinate your presets on the two devices.

I purchased a used M13 on eBay. It should arrive Saturday. (Figured I would try that before trying two HD500Xs).

Do I treat the M13 the same way I have been treating other post-amp effects? I normally use stompbox (not line) setting for FX loop.

 

So it would look like: HD500X FX Send ---> M13 (what M13 input should I use?) -----> M13 (what M13 output should I use?) -----> HD500X FX Return

 

I assume connecting them by midi is optional. I'm not a midi expert. If connected by midi, are you saying the HD500X patch would recall the M13 patch automatically?

 

Thanks for your help on this. I love the HD500X - I have a lot of experience deep editing (started with the POD 2.0, then HD500, and now HD500X) - it really pays off - awesome sounds.

[silverhead]

I think you'll be very happy with the HD500X and M13 combination. There's no possibility of doubling up your amp/cab models in a serial path and you should have plenty of DSP to do what all but the most outlandish signal chains would require.

 

There are actually a few different ways you could set this up. The way you describe is one setup. Use the HD500X FX Send to the M13 main input(s) and the M13 main output(s) to the HD500X FX return. You can use mono or stereo for both. In this case set the HD500X FX Send to Stomp level matching the M13 input expectations.You can place your FX Loop in the HD500X Preset anywhere you like in the signal chain. This will depend on where you want the M13 FX to kick in. You can change this on a preset basis so sometimes your M13 FX can be pre amp and sometimes post amp.

 

Another option is the 4 cable method (4CM). That makes use of both the HD500X and the M13 FX Loops and will allow you the most flexibility in assigning FX from both devices in both pre and post amp positions. In that case you would do this:

Guitar -> M13 input -> M13 FX Send -> HD500X Guitar Input -> HD500X FX Send -> M13 FX Return -> M13 output -> HD500X FX Return -> HD500X output -> outboard equipment (amp/mixer/PA). You can place both the M13 and HD500X FX Loops where you like in their respective signal chains so that you can have both M13 and HD500X FX appearing both before the HD500X amp model and/or after it.

 

You could also experiment with changing the order of the devices in the above 4CM - placing the HD500X first and then the M13 but I'm not sure that there's any real benefit to that.

 

Yes - midi is optional and would, as you suspect, allow you to program your M13 preset/program numbers so that recalling the same preset/program number in the HD500X would send the associated midi message to the M13. Your M13 presets would be automatically selected to match your HD500X presets, up to whatever the preset/program number limit is on the M13.

[schweizt]

Thanks so much! You saved me a couple of hours of trial and error. The stomp setting on the HD500X is really quiet, so I'm thrilled I can use that setting.

 

I will start with something simple - using my comp/gain/boost/etc. off a pedal board in front of the HD500X and the M13 in a post amp FX loop, since I need access to an unusually large number of mod/delay/verb combination settings within one song. I used my high-end mod/delay/verb FX pedals in a post amp FX loop, but they could not provide enough on the fly mod/delay/verb FX combinations within one song. When I get time, I will play with some pre amp FX loops, since the M13 won't be limited to the mod/delay/verb FX pedals I used in the FX loop in the past.

[schweizt]

I think you'll be very happy with the HD500X and M13 combination. There's no possibility of doubling up your amp/cab models in a serial path and you should have plenty of DSP to do what all but the most outlandish signal chains would require.

 

There are actually a few different ways you could set this up. The way you describe is one setup. Use the HD500X FX Send to the M13 main input(s) and the M13 main output(s) to the HD500X FX return. You can use mono or stereo for both. In this case set the HD500X FX Send to Stomp level matching the M13 input expectations.You can place your FX Loop in the HD500X Preset anywhere you like in the signal chain. This will depend on where you want the M13 FX to kick in. You can change this on a preset basis so sometimes your M13 FX can be pre amp and sometimes post amp.

 

Another option is the 4 cable method (4CM). That makes use of both the HD500X and the M13 FX Loops and will allow you the most flexibility in assigning FX from both devices in both pre and post amp positions. In that case you would do this:

Guitar -> M13 input -> M13 FX Send -> HD500X Guitar Input -> HD500X FX Send -> M13 FX Return -> M13 output -> HD500X FX Return -> HD500X output -> outboard equipment (amp/mixer/PA). You can place both the M13 and HD500X FX Loops where you like in their respective signal chains so that you can have both M13 and HD500X FX appearing both before the HD500X amp model and/or after it.

 

You could also experiment with changing the order of the devices in the above 4CM - placing the HD500X first and then the M13 but I'm not sure that there's any real benefit to that.

 

Yes - midi is optional and would, as you suspect, allow you to program your M13 preset/program numbers so that recalling the same preset/program number in the HD500X would send the associated midi message to the M13. Your M13 presets would be automatically selected to match your HD500X presets, up to whatever the preset/program number limit is on the M13.

M13 arrived and it sounds awesome in the HD500X FX loop! Thanks so much for the idea and recommendation! 

Thanks also for explaining the various connection options.

 

I now have 3 mint FX pedals on eBay - I won't need any of them. :-)

 

My only struggle was updating the flash memory. I've used midi before, but I have never needed/used MIDI-Ox. It took me a few tries. I wish Line 6 Monkey worked with the M13 - please put in a request???? :-)

[silverhead]

Glad you're enjoying it. Have fun!