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Spider Valve Mkii 212 Master Volume Issues


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#1 2kewl

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 11:25 AM

I have seen other topics with volume issues on the forums but couldn't find anyone with the same issue. I'm not sure if it is the master volume pot or something else. The Master Volume Pot does not control volume. When I turn the master volume pot though it pops and can affect the tone. The only way I can control the volume is via fbv express volume pedal, but sometimes the amp just jumps to full blast all of a sudden, ignoring the pedal all together. I have had the tubes replaced as well, just to make sure it wasn't just the tubes, but i still have the same problem. Any ideas if its just the master volume pot?


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#2 napynap

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:01 PM

Usually, turning the master volume knob quickly demonstrates the power your amp harnesses. Some questions.. Has the master volume ever worked before? Have you tried disconnecting any MIDI and Ethernet connections? Does it happen on all patches? Does another knob take on the characteristics of the master volume?


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#3 moshiposhi

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 10:57 PM

Hi,

 

i have the same problem. It´s hard to control the volume with the master volume. When i turn the volume 1 mm then its going up to the full volume and my ears nearly explode. I play my valve in my arpartment and so its hard to control the volume. I do at the moment a workaround that I use the "Channel Volume" but everytime i switch to another sound, the volume is going to maximum. The master volume is currently not to control with the knob.

 

Do you have an idea, what i can do with this knob ? Can i use any spray. Is is hard to pull the know out, that i can use contact spray ?

 

Regards

moshiposhi


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#4 2kewl

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:42 AM

Hi Napynap, thanks for your reply. Yes the master volume did work before. Now all i get is static , and a fluctuating volume, and not the normal fluctuating issues everyone else has. It does do it on all patches, as well, I have tried without the volume pedal, and the amp is either putting out static, or if I play with the master volume It will stop for a bit and I get very bad fluctuation in volume from full blast to nothing at all, and it doesn't matter where the knob is pointed to, even when I have the volume knob turned all the way down. It seems to me to be that the pot had gone bad. I have heard that it may just need cleaning too. 

 

I have experience in electronic and soldering, but its been a long time, and i don't have the proper tools anymore. So changing out the pot wouldn't be too challenging for me. 


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#5 Line6Drew

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:53 AM

The Spider Valve has the power to unleash fury when turning the Master knob. This is definitely true, but it can be tamed. What I do on mine is save the channel volume of my presets to about 3-10%. This allows me to crank the master volume up over half way without blowing my ears out or upsetting neighbors. It is best to manually adjust channel volumes on all of the presets you use to prevent bursts of volume.

 

2kewl,  

It sounds like your amp needs servicing. Use the link below to have an authorized technician diagnose the issue with your master knob.

 

http://line6.com/service_centers/


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#6 2kewl

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:43 AM

Line6Drew, I do believe you are right, but the closest service center is a 2 hour drive away. I'll have to check locally to see if someone can look at it.


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#7 LucienL

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 04:18 AM

Hi

 
My Line 6 Valve Spider MKII 112 is extremely touchy with the volume between No.1-2 on the Master is incredibly loud.
I have recently joined the church worship team and I cannot bring the volume down enough during the practice sessions. I almost at maximum volume on No.2?
 
I have been playing for 40 yrs and all the valve amps I have own have a progressive (linear) volume. However I do like the tones and convenience effects accessible via the of FBV MKII.
 
Is there a solution? I have read a lot of forums and Line 6 don’t appear to have a solution other than turn down every channel volume settings on every patch. 
I cannot accept this is a viable solution because the Factory  Settings are “blasting” at no.2 and tweaking between No.1 & 2 is so touchy. You are either in-audible or blasting without a sweat spot range. 
 
It is son frustrating. Can you please help. I am sure Line ^ must have some permanent fix by now.
 
Regards
Lucien Loriente

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#8 geppert

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:00 AM

You HAVE to use the Channel Volume(s) to control the relative level between patches. If you turn the Channel Volumes down for your desired presets then you can turn the Master Volume up HOWEVER, the extreme danger here is that you cannot permanently overwrite the 16 Model Presets on the left hand side so if you have your master volume up and you accidentally turn that left hand knob you will have a horrendous volume problem once the factory preset kicks in. It is really a bad design from that perspective. What I did to audition between the presets was to even them all out with each of the Channel Volumes and save them back into the banks ... then I could turn the M.V. up but I made a point of NEVER touching the 16 Model preset knob. If you own (and like this amp) these are the things you have to live with. I still have mine but I use a DT25 on a regular basis now and the SV 212 MKII is a backup. It still works perfectly fine. My only complaint is that it is too %$#@ heavy as all 2 x 12 combos are.

 

The basic rule with these amps is .... if you are using that Master Volume at 12 o'clock or more you have to be CRITICALLY careful with what you are doing.


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#9 metalal

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:17 AM

Dear team Line 6 .I have just bought a as new condition Line 6 Valve and cab. The only issue that i am finding is the master volume pot being jumpy.... i can set the vol to 1 and when move to 2 or even below the amp is jumping and pomping nearly full power to the cab. Can i get this sorted by posting the whole plate to you so you can guys replace the pot ? please contact me ASAP as i need the amp. Kind regards .Al


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#10 geppert

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 11:04 AM

Al ... you will have better luck by opening a "support ticket" with Line 6 than asking them here.

 

http://line6.com/sup...ickets/add.html


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#11 hieri69

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 02:55 PM

certainly the master volume is a real pain in the neck but can be easily solved with a volume poti which is linked between the Pre amp out and Power Amp IN, basically allowing a more sensitive volume adjustment, see http://stinkfoot.se/archives/2159 I used a 100 k ohm log/Audio pot and it works great, makes the amp soo much more responsive. see also attached diagram

 

Hope it helps!

 

Juergen

www.juka-sound-craft.eu

  

Attached Files


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#12 JoeViking

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:28 AM

"You HAVE to use the Channel Volume(s) to control the relative level between patches. If you turn the Channel Volumes down for your desired presets then you can turn the Master Volume up HOWEVER, the extreme danger here is that you cannot permanently overwrite the 16 Model Presets on the left hand side so if you have your master volume up and you accidentally turn that left hand knob you will have a horrendous volume problem once the factory preset kicks in. It is really a bad design from that perspective. What I did to audition between the presets was to even them all out with each of the Channel Volumes and save them back into the banks ... then I could turn the M.V. up but I made a point of NEVER touching the 16 Model preset knob. If you own (and like this amp) these are the things you have to live with. I still have mine but I use a DT25 on a regular basis now and the SV 212 MKII is a backup. It still works perfectly fine. My only complaint is that it is too %$#@ heavy as all 2 x 12 combos are."

 

Spot on! I have adjusted the channel volumes on my most used channels (well, only down to 40-50 so I guess I need to go even lower as my master is usually only on 2 or 3 when gigging) but you are right though.....hit any of those factory presets where the channel volume is 70+ and you are toast! Prepare to scare people. After hooking up the shortboard to my PC and using the software I turned down the channel volume on all the banks around the ones I use most frequently just in case I accidentally click over into one of them. I have not had any issues.

 

Joe V. 


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#13 geppert

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 03:36 PM

Joe V ... you got it right. What a disaster in a music store with those amps and having people turn that master volume up then changing the "Model Presets" ... OUCH ??? I am sure the music retailers hated the SV amps for that reason. Whenever ANYBODY plays through my SV 212 MKII I am right on them about the Master Volume level. What is REALLY cool though, is that a keyboard player for instance, can just go into the back efx return and use the SV as a true clean power amp. Works perfect. Master Volume and Presence are all that will work at that point. That is a feature I wish they had on the DT's.


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#14 spaceatl

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 03:46 PM

You can power amp in into either DT....The DT50 has a level on the power amp input that acts as a Master...But there is no analog presence like the SVs...The Master on the DT is very different because of the class switching.....


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#15 JoeViking

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 06:30 AM

Brings up an interesting question....where do most of you have the preset channels volumes at? As I said, most of mine are in the 40's and 50's and even gigging I am not at 9 o'clock on the master. Should I ratchet those preset channel volumes down even further (10-20) and jack up the master (noon or so)?. I am sure that is better for the distorted presets where it will really heat up the amp and the tone, but what about my clean channel?

 

Ideally clean should have high channel volume and low master and vice versa on the distorted presets, no? I have a lot of songs where I switch between clean and dirty and solo (think Skid Row "I Remember You") and I just want to stomp on the preset buttons and not use the volume pedal. Right now I have everything balanced in the presets so I just switch back and forth between presets with the FBV without using the volume pedal.

 

Any thoughts?????

 

Thanks!


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#16 jesuscares

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 10:39 PM

Master volume on the L6 spider valve MK2 is no doubt a pain.L6 needs to have some mercy on those who paid a huge price only to end up unusable & dangerous for the ears.Mine has been siting at home for (y)ears! Can't use it for home recording either as we are advised not to disconnect the speakers & use it as amp head.Maybe a volume control fix is what is needed as someone suggested here.L6 ought to give us a free fix & supply those controls.Such a shame,a great amp ends up being a great pain !


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#17 napynap

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 10:57 PM

...Can't use it for home recording either as we are advised not to disconnect the speakers & use it as amp head...

Program the Direct Output for Studio. Then you can use the direct output for recording, while turning down the master for low level monitoring. I actually used this setup in live settings as well. Direct Out to the PA, and Master volume for my own monitor. It sounded pretty close to the mic'd sound when I compared both the direct sound with a Senheiser E609 mic on a live multi-track recording.


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#18 indyj_son

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:00 AM

Can you get it to stay full on? A work around might be to put an external volume pot in the effects loop. They are cheap or can be made easily with some basic electronics skill.


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#19 psarkissian

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 08:27 AM

Probably a loose connection inside, take it to an authorized Line 6 service center.

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT try to do this yourself. There is a supply line voltage there, 

and it hurts like hell when you get zapped by it,.... even with the power off.

 

DO NOT go in there yourself, have a tech who knows this product deal with it.


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#20 jesuscares

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 08:48 AM

Program the Direct Output for Studio. Then you can use the direct output for recording, while turning down the master for low level monitoring. I actually used this setup in live settings as well. Direct Out to the PA, and Master volume for my own monitor. It sounded pretty close to the mic'd sound when I compared both the direct sound with a Senheiser E609 mic on a live multi-track recording.

Thanks.Yeah the direct output seems to be a good idea.I did not resort to it as I read that some of the tubes were passive during its operation.(Preamp tubes I guess).The direct output can be used even in standby mode?


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#21 napynap

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 09:25 PM

Thanks.Yeah the direct output seems to be a good idea.I did not resort to it as I read that some of the tubes were passive during its operation.(Preamp tubes I guess).The direct output can be used even in standby mode?

Correct, all the tubes, including the smaller ones, only apply to the sound of the power amp stage to the speakers.


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#22 jesuscares

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:02 PM

Correct, all the tubes, including the smaller ones, only apply to the sound of the power amp stage to the speakers.

Thanks.Is it true that the tubes work well only when the volume is high? I'm not into tube amps very much so just curious.Also I heard that disconnecting the speakers is a bad idea.Is it ok to connect the spider valve speakers to an external amp head by disconnecting from the Spider valve amp?If so do I need to have the Spider amp on or off?


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#23 psarkissian

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 12:40 PM

--- Tube amps want to see a load on their outputs. Never turn on a

tube amp if the speakers are not connected.

 

--- Is it true that the tubes work well only when the volume is high? No.

They work well when they used correctly.

 

--- Is it okay to connect the Spider Valve speakers to an external amp head

by disconnecting from the Spider Valve amp? If, and only if,... the other speakers

have the correct impedance rating marked on it and they are correctly connected

as such.

 

Amp output impedance and speaker impedance have to match, including the correct

kind of speaker cable (which has its own impedance). All impedances have to be matched.

 

Disclaimer and caveat--- However, not a good idea to do this, too many variables,

too many things can go wrong. So we recommend not doing that. If the speakers

get damaged and you re-connect the amp to its own speakers, the amp can get damaged too.

 

 

--- If so do I need to have the Spider Valve amp on or off? Yes, turn it off...

or it will end up on my bench for repairs, or the bench of one of my lab mates.

 

Disclaimer and caveat 2--- However, not a good idea to do this, too many variables,

too many things can go wrong. So we recommend not doing that. If the speakers

get damaged and you re-connect the amp to its own speakers, the amp can get damaged too.


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#24 jesuscares

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 04:05 PM

Thanks :)


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#25 Jberry75

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 06:04 AM

I haven't seen this mentioned yet...but it is true that the 16 preset amp models can not be overwritten, however the models are all setup with autoFx which means that gain, bass, mid, treble, chorus, delay, and even channel volume are all pre-set based on what Line6 thought sounded good for each amp model.  This can be turned off by going to setup>AutoFX>Disabled.  Now whenever you turn the amp model knob it does not automatically set the parameters, rather it uses which ever position the knobs are at on the amp.  So if you leave the channel volume at noon, you can turn the amp model knob and have consistent volume for each one.  Hope this helps!


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#26 logixpro

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 05:44 PM

Can this not be done through the spider edit program. By disabling this auto fx how does this affect all the other effects can they still be incorporated into you own custom sound via tha amp model selected? Sorry I am new to this site not sure if I am using it properly.


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#27 Frankie_G

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 07:26 PM

I have read and read and still don't see a FIX for the volume issue. I just bought a used Live 6 Bogner Spider Valve 1st Gen and the volume knob is a piece of junk. I have owned 9 or 10 Line 6 amps and never had this issue. Very disappointed! HELP!


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#28 psarkissian

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 09:12 AM

jesuscares,... "Is it true that the tubes work well only when the volume is high?"----

No. There is a threshold point where the volume comes in, its lower point. Depending

on the size and output power specs, that will determine whether that threshold points

is perceive as loud or not.

 

For example,... the threshold point of a 30-Watt Orange tube amp will be lower than

say, a 100-Watt Marshal or a 100-Watt Line 6 HD100.

 

This threshold also applies to transistors. In transistors, it's the "depletion zone", usually

at the base/emitter junction, and is VBE = 0.3-0.7 Volts (typically). There is a similar threshold

for tubes with the gas between the cathode and plate. The screens/grids are used to mediate this.

**That's why tubes and transistors require biasing.

 

So the volume jump will seem greater on a 100-Watt tube amp than say a 30-Watt tube amp.

 

If you have a volume set, and it's jumping back and forth on its own,.... take the amp in for

servicing. **Especially if the tubes haven't been changed out in more than 18 months.


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#29 tommyt56

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 10:48 AM

Hello everyone. I have a Line 6 Spider Valve 112 40 watt Bogner.

 

The volume problem can be quickly cured simply by turning down the channel volume (not gain). Seems like a design or user issue to me.

 

The problem is, that on my used Bogner Valve amp, someone before me OR factory presets are saved with the channel gain set to max, therefore the Master volume needs to be turned down so low that the Master volume pot on mine is scratchy between 0 and 1. Even at 1, it blows my brains out.

 

So, if you have the time, resave EVERY memory location (stored presets) with the channel volume at 3 or thereabouts, then you can set the Master volume to about 4-5 for a nice tube sound. Just remember that as soon as you change presets, or the 1 through 4 channel, the output volume will change.

 

Have fun, please do experiment with Channel volume AND master volume settings!


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#30 nathanbebo

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 12:46 PM

Has anyone dealt with fluctuating volume levels?  I'll be playing at about a 2-4 on the volume level and the volume will cut way down then jump back up over what is set.  Also, I have the same issue with the volume knob when I change volumes.  Thanks for the Channel Volume advice.  I've been flipping the amp to standby then adjusting the volume.  Makes for a fun guessing game.


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#31 psarkissian

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:08 AM

nathanbebo,...

 

Two reasons,... 1) there is a threshold level where the volume engages.

2) if the tubes haven't been changed out in the last 18-20 months, then it's

probably time to change them out. for Spider Valve, use 12AX7B pre-amps 

and 5881WXT matched pair power tubes. Go to an Line 6 authorized service

center, they know the product. DO NOT do this yourself, the shock hazard risk is to great.


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#32 mkcr33l

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 07:17 AM

Or, you have bad UI PCB from the factory like mine, and which are no longer avaialble, so now i have a paper weight!


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#33 psarkissian

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 08:13 AM

Or a flat cable between the main board and UI board, might have a connector crimp starting wear,

or if the retainer nuts on the pots aren't snug, there could be an intermittent chassis ground,......

 

A whole host of things,... so it needs to be checked out by an authorized tech who knows the product

and has access to service info. It's not our father's analog tube amp anymore.

 

This is a tube amp with high voltage shock hazard. Do not go into it,... leave it to the pros who know

the inner workings of this product.


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#34 jesuscares

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 07:32 PM

nathanbebo,...

 

Two reasons,... 1) there is a threshold level where the volume engages.

2) if the tubes haven't been changed out in the last 18-20 months, then it's

probably time to change them out. for Spider Valve, use 12AX7B pre-amps 

and 5881WXT matched pair power tubes. Go to an Line 6 authorized service

center, they know the product. DO NOT do this yourself, the shock hazard risk is to great.

I have used my spider valve overall for only about 20 hours from the time of purchase.Do I still need to change tubes?


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#35 psarkissian

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 07:31 AM

Probably don't need to yet. But you might want to at least have it

looked at by authorized tech. Looks like it's been a while. Cars need

regular maintenance check-ups, and so do tube amps. May need

nothing more than just a slight tweak of something.


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#36 MichaelvanWeert

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 03:25 AM

Hi guys, I recently ran into some issues with the power section of my MKI 212.

The tubes had been changed less then 10 playing hours before this issue occured.

My master volume was all over the place, any slightest touch of the potmeter would blow the volume in any direction. Even with the channel volume turned almost down, the (master)volume would fluctuate from dead silent to earbleeding loud with hardly moving it.

So, I brought the unit to an ampdoctor for repairs, turned out the masterpot was physically worn out...because of the channel volume pot.

He explained to me what has been explained in this thread already; channel volume should be low at all times, so that the masterpot can be turned way up.

The thing is, the channel volume is a 'digital' setting, it's part of the moddeling infrastructure. The masterpot however gets an actual load to bear, the more it's turned down, the more tubepower/current it has to 'block'. So turning the masterpot down will wear it out sooner.

It was an expensive repair, the tech had to build a new potmeter by hand (no official Line6 replacement part available in the Netherlands unfortunatly).

 

Not sure if this direclty relates to OP's issue, (probably irrelevant since it's been 3 years) but maybe my case helps on other mastervolume-related issues :)


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#37 psarkissian

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 01:20 PM

Is this tech a Line 6 authorized service tech?

 

"... turned out the masterpot was physically worn out...because of the channel volume pot."---

Might be possible, though I've worked on hundreds of Spider Valves and haven't seen this yet.

 

"... channel volume should be low at all times, so that the masterpot can be turned way up"---

Channel volume all the way down is a default position. It's to control effects/pre-amp levels before

going to the power stage. Though I can see why he would see it they way he does.

 

"... the channel volume is a 'digital' setting, it's part of the moddeling infrastructure"---

That is incorrect. I can't say any more than that on that subject. 

 

"The masterpot however gets an actual load to bear, the more it's turned down, the more

tubepower/current it has to 'block'. So turning the masterpot down will wear it out sooner"---

Incorrect, there is no load there in that part of the circuit. That's as deep as I can go on that.

 

For the pot to fail as suggested, the pot would have to overheat and have a catastrophic

failure from a high current. That would occur if there was a short on a power tube. And even

then would be highly unlikely to fail any control pots, since the controls are isolation form the

power tube stage.

 

If that pot failed, it would be for some other reason than he thought. Knowing how these

amps work, I can comment on this. I can see how this other tech might think the circuitry is

they way he describes. If I were in his shoes, I might conclude the same. Good observations

on his part, he just drew the incorrect conclusions from that.

 

Are you using 5881WXT power tubes?

Are the power tubes biased to the correct bias voltage?


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#38 MichaelvanWeert

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 01:04 AM

I'm not sure if there's such a thing as a 'Line6 certified/authorized tech' in the Netherlands, we only have like have a dozen ampdoctors as it is.

I'm not a technician myself, I only know what the tech told me. He fixed my amp so I'm sure he knows what he's doing. If his conclusion was wrong however, then I'm just the messenger who doesn't know any better :)

 

The powertubes had been replaced by tubes suggested in the service manual. I assume they are biased (I wasn't in the room when the tubes were replaced).


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#39 psarkissian

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 09:19 AM

He would have to be an authorized service center to get access to the service manual.

Sounds like what ever he did, it worked. Very good.


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#40 psarkissian

psarkissian

    Line 6 Staff

  • Service Engineer Moderator
  • 1822 posts
  • LocationCalabasas, CA

Posted 16 November 2016 - 09:32 AM

For future reference, there is,...

 

Hanex Service
Waaier 36
2451 VW Leimuiden

 

Take the A2 north, turn west onto the E35.

 

... near Amsterdam. They have a good reputation with my counterparts

at Yamaha Europe in Germany.


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