Jump to content


Photo

Hd500 For Worship


Best Answer MikeTGreen , 14 September 2013 - 05:01 AM

I've not got a 500, but been playing direct with a 400 for over 2 years, so have some thoughts. Take it for what it's worth....

 

1.  The sound in the house is not within your control - the only thing you can control is what you send to the house.

2.  The sound you hear from the POD phones out is not what you are sending to the house.  Don't kid yourself.  Practice with it; have fun with it; but don't rely on it to make your patches, until you understand how different it is.

3.  Even the sound you send to the house is not the same as what the house hears - again, this is beyond your control - depends on the house mixer, amps, speakers, and above all, the techs.

 

Explain to the techs that the unmodified signal you sending to the board is what you want to have coming out of the house PA.  BUT, make sure that sound is what you really want by investing in a small (even cheap) mixer at home to monitor the same output that is going into the snake back to the board.  (Even a sub $50 Behringer is fine for this.)

 

If you have on stage monitors or even IEMs with a personal mixer, beware of coloration and distortion that can be introduced in taking your full emulation back through a signal path that may not be really ready for that.

 

Learn to use your ears, whether you start with patches you download, the presets that came with your POD, or something you make up.  There are a *lot* of ways to get a great sound out of these devices, but you have to spend some time learning how to listen.  (I'm still doing that.)

Thanks for this input.  This really confirms my decision to stick with my tube amp and pedal board.  Way too much work to get where I want to be.  Since most soundmen or women at churches are volunteers and learning, they would freak out if I laid all this on them. 

Go to the full post


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 MikeTGreen

MikeTGreen

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 09 August 2013 - 05:14 AM

Greetings fellow musicians and worshipers,

I'm trying to go fast track on setting up my HD500 direct to the church PA.  I currently have nice tube amps and analog pedals but my new church is too small and doesn't have an amp room.  I know I will have to read the manual and tweek, as much as it pains me, but I'd like to have

some good base patches to work with and any system set up advice by someone in my situation who has had great success.  I'm using a

Gibson LP and two Fender strats.  One strat is a deluxe with noiseless pickups and the other is a select HSS strat with noisey single coils and a humbucker.  So direct setup with guitars, no variax guitars unless that works, would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks and GOD bless,

Mike


  • 0

#2 schlottdog

schlottdog

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • LocationTHe Bay area

Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:43 AM

I have downloaded a few from Customtone. The one I use mainly is called "Worship DIstortion". Also, download Lincoln Brewsters patches....they are really good

 

 

http://line6.com/cus...ne/tone/222674/ = Worship Distortion

 

https://www.facebook...190322544333196 = Lincoln


  • 0

#3 guilhordas

guilhordas

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 301 posts
  • LocationBrazil

Posted 09 August 2013 - 06:58 AM

probably  he not runs straight into the mixer, because it uses pre amp, I would like to see some of these but made ​​for anyone who uses the direct mixer


  • 0

Jtv 69 , pod hd 500, suhr S3,prs custom 22, Gibson SG standard 96, fender plus strat 93


#4 ddewees

ddewees

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:48 AM

I've had good luck with the Lincoln Brewster HD500 patches. I did back the gain down some and tweaked the eq; bumped the bass and treble and backed down the mids. I also tamed the delay time down on the analog pedal.

 

You will want to test in your PA system at churchI tested my patches at home via an Alto powered monitor. It was kind of dark and bassy on that system but perfect at church.3


  • 1

#5 K3NTaj2

K3NTaj2

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:22 PM

I downloaded all the "Hillsong" patches from Custom Tone. The "Higher(Hillsong) Delay patch is good for single note stuff in many worship songs. You have to tinker with it a bit though. I turned off the Delay with mod Fx and turned down the analog delay in the mix. I'm using it this weekend for Chris Tomlin's "I Will Follow" The Hillsong Main Worship patch (I forget what it is called exactly) has good clean and distortion sounds for many worship songs.
  • 0

#6 guilhordas

guilhordas

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 301 posts
  • LocationBrazil

Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:04 AM

but you guys use ful amp pre amp when run direct to mixer ? from what I understand pre amps are to run in amp right? or not it is a rule?


  • 0

Jtv 69 , pod hd 500, suhr S3,prs custom 22, Gibson SG standard 96, fender plus strat 93


#7 davidb7170

davidb7170

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 329 posts
  • LocationDavenport, IA

Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:00 AM

There are no rules -- just find what sounds best to you....


  • 0

#8 lilguitar

lilguitar

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 40 posts

Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:28 PM

I did the same as above...Hillsong and LB patches...tweaked to my liking and go direct to PA.  The fact that it only has an amp pre doesn't matter...what you hear is what you get minus any coloring that the PA or amp may add.   You'll likely have to tweak again to make final adjustments at the PA, but should be workable.


  • 0

#9 BigChas52

BigChas52

    Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 2704 posts
  • LocationWashington, DC

Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

but you guys use ful amp pre amp when run direct to mixer ? from what I understand pre amps are to run in amp right? or not it is a rule?

 

In general most people prefer the full models for going straight into a mixer or powered speakers, and pre models for going into a guitar amp.  There are no hard and fast rules on this though.  As a previous poster stated, use whatever sounds best to you.


  • 1

#10 ftuller

ftuller

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 38 posts

Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:43 PM

I responded to another post yesterday on worship tones and was asked to post my patches. Probably the easiest way to access the 9 patches I posted is to go into customtone and search ftuller. I posted clean, crunch, gain, auto swell, and a few different uses of delay. Output option used is studio/direct so they should be fine for right into the system although you might need some tweaking for your guitars and the room you play in.


  • 1

#11 Stratotron

Stratotron

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 142 posts

Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:15 AM

"You will want to test in your PA system at church. I tested my patches at home via an Alto powered monitor. It was kind of dark and bassy on that system but perfect at church.3"

 

You are right on the money with this! Some folks take a long time to figure this out. Read the Fletcher Munson Loudness Contour Study and it will explain why your rig did this.

 

In a nutshell, as you increase your volume level, the eq curve flattens out with the upper mids going through the roof. That is why a rig will sound sweet and bell-like at home, but will become harsh wooden and brittle on the gig. I as a routine, create my patches a little on the dull side at home, they sweeten right up at volume in the house. That is, unless you can create your tones at stage volume at home. Done that too, I warn the wife and the cats...

 

Blessings, Strato


  • 0

#12 MikeTGreen

MikeTGreen

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 18 August 2013 - 02:48 AM

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.  I'm sorry for the late response, but I'm not on the forums much.  I'm currently still using my small tube amp and pedal board.  As soon as I can get with the sound man on another day or days to try and work this out, I'll post the results.

Attached is my current setup.  I currently only use the HD500 for delays and particle verb.

 

Thanks,

Mike

Attached Files


  • 1

#13 Jhatem81

Jhatem81

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 25 posts

Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:55 AM

weird that you have a blue sky and a delay pedal but use the HD500 for delay/reverb. Blue sky is a great pedal right?


  • 0

#14 still_fiddlin

still_fiddlin

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 136 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:07 PM

I've not got a 500, but been playing direct with a 400 for over 2 years, so have some thoughts. Take it for what it's worth....

 

1.  The sound in the house is not within your control - the only thing you can control is what you send to the house.

2.  The sound you hear from the POD phones out is not what you are sending to the house.  Don't kid yourself.  Practice with it; have fun with it; but don't rely on it to make your patches, until you understand how different it is.

3.  Even the sound you send to the house is not the same as what the house hears - again, this is beyond your control - depends on the house mixer, amps, speakers, and above all, the techs.

 

Explain to the techs that the unmodified signal you sending to the board is what you want to have coming out of the house PA.  BUT, make sure that sound is what you really want by investing in a small (even cheap) mixer at home to monitor the same output that is going into the snake back to the board.  (Even a sub $50 Behringer is fine for this.)

 

If you have on stage monitors or even IEMs with a personal mixer, beware of coloration and distortion that can be introduced in taking your full emulation back through a signal path that may not be really ready for that.

 

Learn to use your ears, whether you start with patches you download, the presets that came with your POD, or something you make up.  There are a *lot* of ways to get a great sound out of these devices, but you have to spend some time learning how to listen.  (I'm still doing that.)


  • 2

#15 MikeTGreen

MikeTGreen

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:18 AM

weird that you have a blue sky and a delay pedal but use the HD500 for delay/reverb. Blue sky is a great pedal right?

The BlueSky is amazing and is what I use for most of my ambient swells.  The only reverb I use in the HD500 is the particle verb.  I can't find any other pedals that sound like that.  After trying this out direct, I decided that it takes way too long to tweek and get tones I'm happy with. 

I don't enjoy tweeking, I enjoy playing.  Getting the tone I want with the pedals and my amp is a breeze.  Even the sound guy said lets stick with the amp and pedals and we worked out the volume issues so the HD500 is up for sale on Pensacola Craigslist.  I will replace it with an M5 for the particle verb and buy one or two other pedals for the delays.

 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions,

Mike 


  • 0

#16 MikeTGreen

MikeTGreen

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:01 AM   Best Answer

I've not got a 500, but been playing direct with a 400 for over 2 years, so have some thoughts. Take it for what it's worth....

 

1.  The sound in the house is not within your control - the only thing you can control is what you send to the house.

2.  The sound you hear from the POD phones out is not what you are sending to the house.  Don't kid yourself.  Practice with it; have fun with it; but don't rely on it to make your patches, until you understand how different it is.

3.  Even the sound you send to the house is not the same as what the house hears - again, this is beyond your control - depends on the house mixer, amps, speakers, and above all, the techs.

 

Explain to the techs that the unmodified signal you sending to the board is what you want to have coming out of the house PA.  BUT, make sure that sound is what you really want by investing in a small (even cheap) mixer at home to monitor the same output that is going into the snake back to the board.  (Even a sub $50 Behringer is fine for this.)

 

If you have on stage monitors or even IEMs with a personal mixer, beware of coloration and distortion that can be introduced in taking your full emulation back through a signal path that may not be really ready for that.

 

Learn to use your ears, whether you start with patches you download, the presets that came with your POD, or something you make up.  There are a *lot* of ways to get a great sound out of these devices, but you have to spend some time learning how to listen.  (I'm still doing that.)

Thanks for this input.  This really confirms my decision to stick with my tube amp and pedal board.  Way too much work to get where I want to be.  Since most soundmen or women at churches are volunteers and learning, they would freak out if I laid all this on them. 


  • 0

#17 still_fiddlin

still_fiddlin

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 136 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:21 AM

Well, sorry to have discouraged you!  Like others, I've been confounded with how to work with the volunteer & non-professional sound folks in this situation.  Another way to look at this is that it's also hard for them, because they can't know what it's *supposed* to sound like, since there's nothing for them to audibly hear when you are playing.  For all they know, it's supposed to sound like fizz, or whatever.  And, likely they are not listening to the monitor mix when it's going back through a submix, i.e., you don't have a dedicated person working the stage monitor mix  So, ultimately, even with a mic'd amp, the sound in the house may not be what you are hearing.  But, in that situation, both you and the sound folks have something to listen to be compare the house against.  So, if you can use an amp, all of this (POD HD direct) gets a lot easier if you have the ability to use a small power amp on stage as a monitor, and split the signal that you're sending there.  For me, the problems have all been due to the mismatch between how I expect it to sound, and what I actually hear in the IEMs once they're screwed in, because there's nothing else for me to listen to.

 

With all that, we have Avioms, and with my constant whining, I've managed to get the house sound fairly consistent, but the monitor mix still can be random, due to changing folks behind the desk.  Even with the ability to recall scenes on the Yamaha mixer, I can't rely on them using them, so the gain on my channel (which might have been used for something else in a different service, or maybe everything was reset due to a t-storm power cycle/surge) is subject to change.  So, I've actually switched to using a digital recorder/mixer to monitor myself.  I take my Aviom feed, and remove myself from that mix, then take the L/MONO out for the house and my digital recorder.  Almost the best of both worlds, save the 2 extra minutes of setup time to run 2 more cables and set recorder levels.  But, at least now I know that what I hear in my ears is exactly what's going to the board.

 

aviomrecording.jpg


  • 0

#18 MikeTGreen

MikeTGreen

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:13 AM

Well, sorry to have discouraged you!  Like others, I've been confounded with how to work with the volunteer & non-professional sound folks in this situation.  Another way to look at this is that it's also hard for them, because they can't know what it's *supposed* to sound like, since there's nothing for them to audibly hear when you are playing.  For all they know, it's supposed to sound like fizz, or whatever.  And, likely they are not listening to the monitor mix when it's going back through a submix, i.e., you don't have a dedicated person working the stage monitor mix  So, ultimately, even with a mic'd amp, the sound in the house may not be what you are hearing.  But, in that situation, both you and the sound folks have something to listen to be compare the house against.  So, if you can use an amp, all of this (POD HD direct) gets a lot easier if you have the ability to use a small power amp on stage as a monitor, and split the signal that you're sending there.  For me, the problems have all been due to the mismatch between how I expect it to sound, and what I actually hear in the IEMs once they're screwed in, because there's nothing else for me to listen to.

 

With all that, we have Avioms, and with my constant whining, I've managed to get the house sound fairly consistent, but the monitor mix still can be random, due to changing folks behind the desk.  Even with the ability to recall scenes on the Yamaha mixer, I can't rely on them using them, so the gain on my channel (which might have been used for something else in a different service, or maybe everything was reset due to a t-storm power cycle/surge) is subject to change.  So, I've actually switched to using a digital recorder/mixer to monitor myself.  I take my Aviom feed, and remove myself from that mix, then take the L/MONO out for the house and my digital recorder.  Almost the best of both worlds, save the 2 extra minutes of setup time to run 2 more cables and set recorder levels.  But, at least now I know that what I hear in my ears is exactly what's going to the board.

 

aviomrecording.jpg

Don't sweet it, it wasn't you, it was the process.  I made my decision last year after having to spend more time tweeking than playing.  That's why I started building the analog portion.  I just figured I'd give it one more try.  I sure don't want to discourage any others reading this post.  I've heard You Tube demos and read other reviews of how awesome the HD500 is.  I truely believe it is if you have the time and patience.  The idea of having to carry just my guitar, HD500 to practice and Sunday morning Worship was very appealing.  I'm a 49 year old family man with a stressful career.  Time is one of my most valuable commodities.


  • 0

#19 still_fiddlin

still_fiddlin

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 136 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:57 AM

There is a learning curve, no doubt, and that's going to take some playing time away, but for me, there was no other option. And I do like it now that I've got everything set. Very little tweaking. Plus I've got the 400 so just not as much infinite complexity as the 500 - one of the reasons I got it and haven't been moved to upgrade. (I'm 60+ and still working long hours. I don't have but a few hours a week for this hobby!)

 

P.S. Thought I'd post a couple *live* recordings made just recently (last Sunday and a couple before that).  No exciting guitar work - sorry, it's my hobby, but it's fun to try and get the mix in the Aviom right so it works for monitoring live, but still all comes together, sort of, later.

 

Sovereign (R channel, swells and electric)

 

More Than Amazing (R channel, electric)


  • 0

#20 davidjmcconnell

davidjmcconnell

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 31 March 2014 - 06:46 PM

I've used the HD500 direct into our sanctuary’s PA for more than a year with excellent results. When I started out, I spent a few weeks fine tuning and tweaking settings – setting EQ, and adding delay, reverb and chorus effects (used sparingly). I also use the built-in expression pedal as a volume pedal so I can easily adjust sound between pieces or when moving between finger picking and strumming.

I've only played my acoustic, but will play electric with the HD500 for the first time this Sunday. I'm eager to hear how it sounds with amp models and a bit of crunch.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users