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Fx Loop Question


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#1 Robzebr

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:29 PM

Using the 4 cable method...

 

Consider this dual path scenario...  I want to be able to have 2 paths .. Path A -  just my preamp... and Path B another amp model.....

 

My question is regarding the FX Loop in the HD500....  I can use the FXLoop to send the signal out to my preamp...

 

signal in... FX LoopSend  - my preamp input.. my preamp FXSend to HD500 FXLoop Return.... down to the mixer....  no problem.... This is not dual path... just a single path to the mixer...

 

If I use the Dual Path to have both signals... my preamp and a model...  How do I split the signal

so my guitar signal goes out the physical FX loop on the 500 and also goes to Path B where I can create the model?

 

In other words I want the same signal to be split right before the FXLoop so the FXLoop gets the signal... and Path B  gets the signal where I would put the modeled amp....

 

If I do the split right at the FXLoop ... in HD Edit the FXLoop has the input and then splits the signal into A and B as you would expect..

 

The way it visually looks now in HD Edit... the signal comes into the FXLoop... and the FXLoop splits the signal into 2 paths... A and B... A would go to my preamp and B would go to the modeled amp....

 

But, there is only 1 FXSend and 1 FXReturn physically on the HD500....

 

So my question is ... What is the FX Loop doing when the Dual Channel is created within the FXLoop icon in HDEdit..?

 

When I create the patch to just have my preamp in the signal... the FXLoop sends the signal out the physical FXLoop Send to my preamp... no problem...

 

But now that the FXLoop is the origin of the Dual Path... what is happening with the second path  in the FXLoop Icon...?

 

example..       Path A      |--------goes out FXSend to my preamp, back in FXReturn to mixer...out

                                     |

                                     |

..... signal in... FXLoop....|

                                     |

                                     |

                      Path B     |------- any amp model..... ...  to mixer ... out....

 

I'm trying to avoid the 2 preamps in the same signal path.. I want to keep them separate so its not preamp on top of preamp...in one signal path....

 

So I want to split the signal... or the signal to take 2 paths... 1 out the FX Loop to my preamp... the other path to run down Path B where I can create the model... both ending up at the mixer...

 

With only 1 physical FXLoop on the 500... I don't know how the FXLoop software is looking at Path B....

 

What I really want logically is this...

 

                       

                Path A        /FX LoopSend to my preamp... to FXLoopReturn... to mixer to out...

                                /

signal in.... Splitter..../

                               \

                                \

                                 \Path B to whatever model I create... to mixer to out...

 

Right now this "splitter" is the FXLOOP in the HDEdit software...creating the 2 paths A and B...

But as there only 1 physical FXLoop on the HD500.... I don't know how the software is dealing with the Path B as it comes out of the FXLoop Icon in HDEdit....

 

All I care about is having 2 paths.... one for my preamp and the other for a modeled amp...and the signals are not riding on top of each other... (preamp on top of preamp).... creating the usual muddiness that every talks about like when you send a modeled signal into the front of a combo amp to the amps preamp.....

 

What I think I need to do is to break off the signal right before it hits the FXLoop... sending it to the FXLoop and also down path B...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 Robzebr

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:39 PM

So the software only allow 1 FX loop... which makes sense because there is only one set of FXLoop Send and Return.....

 

But it looks like the signal will go out the FXLoop come back into the HD500 and then be split over Path A and Path B....

 

The problem is that ... that would put my amps preamp signal over Path B ... where I wanted to have an amp model by itself...


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#3 dbagchee

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:07 PM

You can move the FX Loop into Path A like this:

 

ajua7F2.png

 

Then it won't affect Path B.


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#4 Robzebr

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:26 PM

I think this is the answer....  when in doubt... RTFB...

 

Mix:   Blends the FX Loop signal that with the POD HD tone signal. When set to
100%, the full POD HD500 signal is fed to the  SEND.
 
When set to 0%, your input signal bypasses the FX Loop completely, so that you’ll hear only your POD HD
processed signal.
 
Be sure to set the Mix to less than 100%, or toggle the FX Loop Block “Off,” if you do not have a complete connection between the device’s SEND & RETURN jacks, or you’ll hear only silence from the output of POD HD500!
 
So I guess... if you have the mix set to 50%... the signal will go out the FXLoop Send to my preamp.. and then back in..going down Path A... .
 
.... and because I have the FXLoop as the Dual Path origin... the "other" 50% will go down the other path in this case Path B...
 
Now I just need to get a L2t to test it...
 
 

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#5 Robzebr

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:28 PM

You can move the FX Loop into Path A like this:

 

ajua7F2.png

 

Then it won't affect Path B.

 

That looks like it would work...!  Great! thanks..


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#6 Robzebr

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:30 PM

You can move the FX Loop into Path A like this:

 

ajua7F2.png

 

Then it won't affect Path B.

 

What would be a cause of not hearing the output form Path B?

 

I have it set up basically like above... FX Loop in Path A with a NON Selected amp... black amp icon... and in Path B a modeled amp....

 

The only thing I am getting is the output from Path A... the FXLoop to my amp... nothing from Path B...

 

The amp model is turned up... I adjusted the mixer.. for Path B... Level and panning...  Zero Zip Nada.... Its not that its low output... there isn't any...    on Path B...

 

.  Its just one speaker... my 2x12... So its the 4CM ending up at the FXReturn of my amp.... I hear my amp fine... just not picking up Path B...  I tried multiple models...

 

Any ideas..?

 

Thanks,

 

Bob


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#7 dbagchee

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

Where are you running the left and right outs from the Pod? Assuming your Left output is going to your amp return..where is the right output going?


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#8 MartinDorr

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:31 AM

You may want to check whether you are feeding an input signal to both signal paths, i.e., Input2=Same.
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#9 Robzebr

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:04 AM

Where are you running the left and right outs from the Pod? Assuming your Left output is going to your amp return..where is the right output going?

 

 The only output that I am using on the POD is L(mono) which is connected to the FXReturn on my amp....

 

When using Dual Path in the POD... does that necessarilly mean that I have to use both outs L + R and go to 2 different power/speakers?

 

That would mean that I couldn't do Dual Path into one speaker ... in this case a 2x12 hanging off my amp?

 

I thought it was possible to use Dual Path into one power/amp / speaker combination....  Mind you... I'm just testing and experimenting... Ultimately when I get the L2t I would use an output from the POD to it... but for now I'm just trying to see if I can get both tones... my preamp and a modeled amp... both coming out of my 2x12....


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#10 dbagchee

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:44 AM

You don't need to use both outputs to use dual path, but I assumed you were testing the separation of the two (since you probably wouldn't want the modeled amp/cab coming out the 2x12). If you are just using the left out then it should be summing the mixer block outputs to mono. Check the setting the MartinDorr mentioned. Also try reversing the patch (put model in path a, loop in path B) and see if you only hear the modeled amp.


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#11 Robzebr

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

You may want to check whether you are feeding an input signal to both signal paths, i.e., Input2=Same.

 

 

That was it!   I had it set for Variax... set it to Same and it works great.... 

 

As far as the mixer... if I'm sending both signals to one speaker.... does the panning do anything for me?  Does it matter if I have both Path A and B fully panned or set to center if the output is going to the same speaker....

 

Sounds the same regardless of the panning... which would make sense.. as its going to the same speaker...

 

Now I need to budget for the L2t..

 

Thanks!

 

Bob


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#12 Robzebr

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

You don't need to use both outputs to use dual path, but I assumed you were testing the separation of the two (since you probably wouldn't want the modeled amp/cab coming out the 2x12). If you are just using the left out then it should be summing the mixer block outputs to mono. Check the setting the MartinDorr mentioned. Also try reversing the patch (put model in path a, loop in path B) and see if you only hear the modeled amp.

 

Thanks for your help... I appreciate it... I would love to test the separation ... only problem is I don't have the L2t yet...!

 

Now that I see that this works .. I'm ready to see about getting the L2t...

 

Until then I can mess with the different models and volume levels so when I get the L2t I already did most of the heavy lifting...though I know it will be need to be re-tweaked because of the new speaker... but it should be pretty close...


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#13 dbagchee

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:34 PM

If you're running out to mono the panning won't do much but you will get slightly different levels if panned center vs panned hard left/right. The nice thing is you can leave your patch setup for total separation and have it "mono ready" by just using the left 1/4" output. Note that the XLR outs don't sum to mono if you were ever to use those.


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#14 Robzebr

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 04:48 PM

What does summing to mono mean to me in practical terms for the setup that I have...  my own preamp / amp on Path A... and a modeled amp on Path B that will be going to a L2t when I get it... both out of the 1/4"  outs...

 

vs.  maybe using the XLR for connection to the L2t...

 

Let me think this out...  Mono.. meaning not stereo... meaning all sounds lumped together and sent to a speaker... 

 

"The nice thing is you can leave your patch setup for total separation and have it "mono ready" by just using the left 1/4" output. Note that the XLR outs don't sum to mono if you were ever to use those."

 

So if I have a patch set up with L and R fully panned ... left and right... and just use the left 1/4" output... then both signals are "summed to mono.." .... makes sense.. there is only one output so it has to be summed...

 

If I get the L2t and use the 1/4" R mono out to connect to it... then because there are now 2 paths to 2 different speakers... then the mixer .. through panning is able to send 2 different signals down each path.. or if the mixer is put to Center on both channels.. then the same sound will come out of both speakers...

 

Note that the XLR outs don't sum to mono if you were ever to use those.

 

So if I am using a 1/4" out to my amps FXReturn... and let's say I use a XLR going from the POD to the L2t... I can still use the mixer to pan the signals for the separation... correct?

 

I don't know why I would do that.. just curious... probably just use 2 1/4" outs to the amp and the L2t....

 

Just to add another wrinkle...  how would using the L6 link on the POD for the L2t and  a 1/4" out to my amp impact things...

 

Thought I just read on another post about an issue with using the L6 with the L2t and an amp... but maybe that was with the DT25... I have to go back an find that post...

 

Don't really need an answer to any of this... I have to get the L2t .. hook it up and see where I'm at...

 

Thanks....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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