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Can Helix do something like this Amplitube patch?


zooey
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Got my Helix last Monday, and of course have been fiddling with it in my somewhat limited time. In general I'm enjoying it (may do a post on my reactions later), but there's a class of Amplitube 4 patches I really like that I haven't been able to get very close to. I've attached one. If anyone has any thoughts on how to do something like it in Helix, or better yet an actual Helix patch like it, I'd appreciate it.

 

This patch was tailored to a G&L Ascari HB3, 3 humbuckers, no idea how it'll work for anyone else's guitar or playing, but I thought I'd ask this anyway. Also, it was done primarily in AKG 240 phones, FWIW.

 

(The HB3 is pretty new to me. Nice guitar, but it arrived with a defective bridge PU, sounds like honky nasal crap, and I never use it. G&L will fix it when I'm ready to be without it for a while, I'm only mentioning that because this patch doesn't deal with the bridge pickup at all. I have a version of it that does for my main guitar, but that guitar is so different from anything anyone else has that I thought this one was more helpful here.)

 

Patch uses the Mesa Mark III, and as saved is pushed enough to be a little fat and sustainy, but barely distorted. If you can imagine playing with a friend who doesn't like distorted guitars, but you still want some Mojo, it's a version of that.

 

It has a number of more-drive options available. I really like it as saved, and with each of the various drive options. I care much more about Helix doing the patch as saved, that fat but not that distorted thing, less about the stomps and fx that are configured but off.

 

That said, the drive options need some explanation.

- The EQ in stomp A is always on

- The overdrives in stomp A I use less often than other drive options, still nice though

- The Crusher in stomp B is a mild thickener. I sometimes use the first EQ in stomp B with it to brighten it up slightly; that's all that EQ is for.

- The second 2 EQs in stomp B are the main overdrive options, used one at a time. The first one pushes medium hard, the second one more.

- The EQ-XS Fuzz-EQ chain on the right side of stomp 2 gets turned on or off as a single effect. (No controllers configured for that at this point though, or for anything else.) It's towards the more-drive end of things for me, different texture than the other options.

 

So far in Helix, by the time I get much fatness, I hear more obvious distortion than this, as it's saved. It's much easier to find things closer to the drive options. I like playing through the Helix patches I've made so far, but I'd miss something like this if I couldn't get near it, it's one of my home bases.

 

To be clear, I haven't gone through anywhere near all the amps, stomps, and cabs Helix has to offer. I keep just playing guitar instead of trying everything, which itself is a good sign. Still, I haven't landed on anything at all similar to this patch, thought I'd ask.

 

@roscoe5, and any other Amplitube (ex-, maybe) users, what do you think?

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I didn't see your *.at4p Amplitube preset file.  You might not have clicked Attach This File after you selected the file via Choose File.

 

I've done that more than a few times ;)

 

Also, the forum site may not accept that *.at4p file type.  You can change the extension to something general like *.txt to post it and I can change it back.

post-1189006-0-71469600-1460726972_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for looking, and you're right on both counts, file is attached.

 

Rename the extension back to '.at4p' to use it in Amplitube.

 

Compatible with AT 4 only. Requires Mesa Mark III and the Mesa Recto Slant cab, everything else is standard IK stuff if I remember right (can't see from here).

Cleanish but fat 6.xml

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Thanks for looking, and you're right on both counts, file is attached.

 

Rename the extension back to '.at4p' to use it in Amplitube.

 

Compatible with AT 4 only. Requires Mesa Mark III and the Mesa Recto Slant cab, everything else is standard IK stuff if I remember right (can't see from here).

 

Cool. Will check it out later today or this weekend.

 

Others without Amplitube probably don't understand that there is something unique going on in AT, especially the Mesa pack that is difficult to easily match in Helix.

 

Not saying one is better than the other, but those of us that have a pre-Helix, AT-tuned ear find ourselves missing it.

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Thanks for looking, and you're right on both counts, file is attached.

 

Rename the extension back to '.at4p' to use it in Amplitube.

 

Compatible with AT 4 only. Requires Mesa Mark III and the Mesa Recto Slant cab, everything else is standard IK stuff if I remember right (can't see from here).

 

OK zooey, I think I am really close to the AT4 Mark III amps with dual cabs you had in your preset, minus some guitar specific tweaking you will likely need to do.  I used my Les Paul to test.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/009bkqzooza1aop/AABUQHfMGU1C41V_vYMtcnhKa/IR/!IR%20Requests/zooey?dl=0

 

Files posted

  • Cleanish but fat 6.at4p - your original preset with (lots of) effects
  • Cleanish but fat 6 Amp Cab.at4p - your preset with only the Mark III amp and the two Mesa cabs on for baseline
  • Cleanish but fat 6 Amp Cab No Cab.at4p - for testing the IR with your AT4 Mesa MIII
  • zooey amp IR HX.hlx - Helix preset with US Double Nrm amp, 10 band eq, and IR (in Helix Impulse IR slot 82)
  • zooey MesaMIII DualCabs_82.wav - AT4 Mark III amp + 2cabs IR

 

That should give you a good Helix amp & cab base sound to build on.  I'll leave it to you to select and configure your 12 effects pedals like you had them in AT4.  you may want to add some Helix reverb after the IR to simulate the AT4 cab room reverb effect.

 

I also thought the Helix Mail Order Twin with the new IR model was close to your preset too.  It had a little more lo-fi sound if you think the US Double Nrm is too present and punchy.

 

Maybe Line 6 will make a Mesa Mark III (or 2C+) model soon.  It's requested pretty frequently I think.

 

That 5-band Mesa Mark series EQ is at different frequencies than the Helix 10 band.  I had to do a bit of visual and audio interpolation to get close.

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Thanks, really appreciate your work on this (and all your IRs too), will check these out when I can.

 

Re Cleanish but fat 6 Amp Cab.at4p, the first graphic is really a part of that sound I think, so as a baseline it might not be quite right, depending on what you mean by that.

Didn't quite get what Cleanish but fat 6 Amp Cab No Cab.at4p was for. Building the amp and cab IR, maybe?

 

I'm one of the people wishing hard for a Helix Mark III, but the vast majority of Mesa wishes I've seen were for the IIc and the V, both of which I've never heard. Most of the Mesa wishers are high-gain guys, which I'm really not. Wasn't expecting it, but the Mark III is definitely my fave out of the AT Mesas.

 

Re the Mesa Mark EQ, I wish Amplitube let you use it as an effect with other amps, but I can see Mesa not letting that happen. I bet it's got an effect on the audio besides what its frequencies and bandwidths would indicate. I think it's basically a passive EQ, like with inductors and very analog-type stuff. It'd be awesome if Helix had one :).

 

Leaving the Mesa mojo out of it, you could make one out of a couple of parametrics. It'd be cool if Helix let you build reusable blocks that combined multiple effects, possibly with control over the placement of their combined controls in the block's pages. Put gain for each of the bands on page 1 in this case, with frequencies and Q fixed "inside", on later pages.

 

Thanks again, looking forward to this.

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Yeah, sorry. Missed the part about the always on EQ when I first read it.

 

However, it may still be closer to your AT preset for you to put a similar eq in front of the Helix amp block.

 

Making an IR with the eq on in front in AT might behave closer to putting an eq between the Helix amp block and IR cab.

 

No big deal to rip it into another IR for you to try.

 

The AT amp no cab was just for me to test the AT Mesa Mark III (no AT cabs) into the Helix IR (no Helix amp block). Just something I do for myself to see if I am getting what I expect.

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zooey EQMesaMIII DualCabs.wav uploaded to dropbox.

 

Only a slightly different sound in the IR in Helix. Not quite the dramatic difference that turning on the EQ pedal before the amp makes in AT4.

 

Still, now you have two IR's to try out.

 

Sometimes you will lose IR settings switching out IR's if you're not careful. I posted a pic of the IR, EQ, and amp settings on Dropbox.

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@roscoe5, had a good long play w your setup last night. Was way brighter than my AT version here, assuming it didn't seem like that in your environment, not sure why that'd be.

 

But the bigger problem, no fault of yours, is that is just doesn't have anything like the dynamics response of the AT Mesa patch. The Mesa thing does something seriously cool when you pick harder, feels to me like my imagination of a super high-end boutique amp. It's related to the fat but not very distorted-sounding thing, sounds like a nearly clear guitar through a nice amp when you pick softly, but lay into it a bit, and it has this wonderful bite and crunch.

 

I get nothing like that from anything I've tried in Helix.

 

Also, pick gently, and most patches, even clean ones, have a slight digital buzz on the top end, almost like quantization noise or something. So far I've just been in phones, which I'm sure exaggerates that -- you might not hear it in a room, certainly wouldn't in a band context, but it's there.

 

I'll try your new version roscoe5, and keep exploring, but so far, I can't say I'm knocked out by Helix sound-wise. Ergonomics, form factor, and connectivity features are great, just wish I was in love with the actual sound.

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Yeah, I thought we got pretty close (at least the tonally), but certainly not exact, especially considering feel. The amp model itself seems to drive that.  The AT Mesa amps have their own mojo. I can get a bit of the essence and frequency response (limitations of an IR) but certainly not a full copy of AT to Helix.

I think you will find at the very least, Helix is a great interface and controller for AT.

As I really don't want to take a pc out live (yet), then best of both worlds to me at the moment is using Helix amps and stomps into AT cabs, tweak the AT cabs, speakers, mics, positions, etc. Then IR the AT cab. Then running the same Helix amp into the resulting AT cab IR is VERY close to the Helix amp onto the AT cab. Of course you don't get the reverb of the room mics, so I usually turn down the room mics when going for the closest match.

So while trying to perfectly match the sound and feel of AT in Helix is difficult (and a recipe for insanity), hybrid Helix amps and AT cab IR'S give me some of both in a single package.

One thing I might do for you that you might enjoy is IR just your AT cabs. You have a very cool dual cab multi mic setup in that preset. Getting that response into a single IR may be useful and enjoyable for you to use with Helix amps.

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zooey DualCabs Only RectoMIII.wav posted with the amp and EQ off, cabs only.

 

Somewhat surprisingly, there wasn't much difference in the Amp + Cab and Cab only IR's.  It might actually be a little easier to work with the cab only IR in Helix, but both are pretty flexible.

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Let me take another run at this. The patch I originally posted wasn't actually a good example of what I'm having a hard time doing in Helix. My bad, I wasn't in a place where I could listen to it, didn't pick a good one.

 

So here's another Amplitube patch that's closer to what I'm after, and my best shot so far at sometime like it in Helix. Thanks again to roscoe5 for all his work, I started from there, including the IR he made from my original Amplitube patch.

 

The AT patch file needs to be renamed to .at4p, and the Helix one to .hlx. The Helix one expects the IR from earlier in this thread in slot 82, as before.

 

The main patch is as saved. There are some additions and alternatives too...

- Just to the right of the IR, there's a cab and an EQ, which together are an alternative to the IR. It's sort of close, but not as good IMO.

- In the top row are 3 optional overdrives and an EQ used as on overdrive

- There's an optional chorus in the bottom row.

 

IMO, this isn't too bad, not as good as the Amplitube version, but fairly reasonable. Among other things, it's neither as clean as the AT version when picked lightly, nor as crunchy when you hit it harder. If anyone has any thoughts an how to improve that sort of behavior in Helix, please clue me.

 

All told, I spent I LOT of time in Helix over the weekend. I wish I could say I'm totally sold on it, but not yet. Love the UI. Used the editor a bit too, it's good, though mildly annoying in some ways.

 

Sound-wise, it's just not as touch responsive as Amplitube, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it be so.

The Leslies are awful, not that that's a huge deal.

The usable overdrives are less varied than what's in AT. No idea what you could do with the industrial one that you could actually hear in a live mix.

 

Will continue exploring, but I'm not used to spending this kind of many unless I'm totally knocked out.

Mark lll extra cab less.xml

zooey amp IR HX3.txt

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Let me take another run at this. The patch I originally posted wasn't actually a good example of what I'm having a hard time doing in Helix. My bad, I wasn't in a place where I could listen to it, didn't pick a good one.

 

So here's another Amplitube patch that's closer to what I'm after, and my best shot so far at sometime like it in Helix. Thanks again to roscoe5 for all his work, I started from there, including the IR he made from my original Amplitube patch.

 

The AT patch file needs to be renamed to .at4p, and the Helix one to .hlx. The Helix one expects the IR from earlier in this thread in slot 82, as before.

 

The main patch is as saved. There are some additions and alternatives too...

- Just to the right of the IR, there's a cab and an EQ, which together are an alternative to the IR. It's sort of close, but not as good IMO.

- In the top row are 3 optional overdrives and an EQ used as on overdrive

- There's an optional chorus in the bottom row.

 

IMO, this isn't too bad, not as good as the Amplitube version, but fairly reasonable. Among other things, it's neither as clean as the AT version when picked lightly, nor as crunchy when you hit it harder. If anyone has any thoughts an how to improve that sort of behavior in Helix, please clue me.

 

All told, I spent I LOT of time in Helix over the weekend. I wish I could say I'm totally sold on it, but not yet. Love the UI. Used the editor a bit too, it's good, though mildly annoying in some ways.

 

Sound-wise, it's just not as touch responsive as Amplitube, or at least I haven't figured out how to make it be so.

The Leslies are awful, not that that's a huge deal.

The usable overdrives are less varied than what's in AT. No idea what you could do with the industrial one that you could actually hear in a live mix.

 

Will continue exploring, but I'm not used to spending this kind of many unless I'm totally knocked out.

 

 

Made a second pass at IR'ing your new AT4 preset and tested with your Helix preset.  This batch has a little more fullness and depth.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/009bkqzooza1aop/AAC8hJwHgCi4TII79wWcy_0ca/IR/!IR%20Requests/zooey/v2%2020160422?dl=0

 

Placed two versions out there for you to try

  • Mark lll extra cab Rm.wav - has the room mics on
  • Mark lll extra cab.wav - no room mics

Link to root IR folder with other IR's

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lstuzn05tdpin9v/AADjdknZwdrze5VqaO7whHroa?dl=0

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Thank you again for all your explorations and efforts here. Will check this out when I can.

 

I have to say, outside of this version which I haven't heard yet, I'm getting happier with Helix :). The Mark III patch I uploaded has continued to evolve, still w the original IR you made for me, and it's pretty cool.

 

To me, Helix isn't perfect sonically. I hear various digital sounding artifacts in different situations. But overall, it sounds good, and the UI is super easy and fluid to use, really pleasant in comparison to pretty much anything.

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