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Delay Line With M20d?


Best Answer dboomer , 16 August 2013 - 03:42 PM

Currently there is not a good way to do this with the mixer. It may be possible someday using the DSP built into the L2/3 speakers but not today. Go to the full post


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#1 case67

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:48 AM

Hi all,

 

how can i realize a Delay Line with the M20d?

 

I have the M20d with two L3t connected by L6 LINK FOH.

Now i want another pair of speakers 15 meter in the audience.

This second pair of speakers must be delayed somehow.

 

Any tipps how to i can do this?

Does M20d support delay line?

 

Kind regards,

  Tom


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#2 pierrebriend

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:15 AM

It is a pertinent question. Did line6 designers took this important detail into account. It could be very useful to set a delay between two sets of Output devices, for instance 30ms for 10 m distance Is it possible with the M20d LINK?
Same question between two mics/inputs?
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#3 dboomer

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:42 PM   Best Answer

Currently there is not a good way to do this with the mixer. It may be possible someday using the DSP built into the L2/3 speakers but not today.

#4 pierrebriend

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:25 PM

OK dboomer, users like me and case 67 are waiting for the "update"... under christmas tree??!!
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#5 RonMarton

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:46 PM

...I want another pair of speakers 15 meter in the audience.

This second pair of speakers must be delayed somehow...

 

...users like me and case 67 are waiting for the "update"... under christmas tree??!!

 

FYI, Tom and Pierre...

 

...about 500 US Dollars (or a few Euro less) buys this "outboard" solution that I often use:

 

http://www.dbxpro.co...ts/driverack-pa


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#6 Digital-sound

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:38 PM

FYI, Tom and Pierre...
 
...about 500 US Dollars (or a few Euro less) buys this "outboard" solution that I often use:
 
http://www.dbxpro.co...ts/driverack-pa


Just to clarify what I asked in the other post, I will not be able to use my driverack with the L6 link, but if I did need it, I suppose I could still link all the speakers (I will have in a week or so), via L6 link, after I run from the driverack to the first speaker? So my regular lines to the frist speaker, then L6 link from there?

But because I don't need delay, I assume it will be best for me to connect via L6 link from the M20d to the speakers? Can't wait to get them.....so much better than speculating and wondering!
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#7 case67

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:28 AM

Hi RonMarton,

 

>...about 500 US Dollars (or a few Euro less) buys this "outboard" solution that I often use:

>http://www.dbxpro.co...ts/driverack-pa

 

Thanks for your answer!

 

Google 'dbx DriveRack PA delay times' -> Second answer:

  The DriveRack PA has only output delay modules capable of up to 10 ms of delay per pair of outputs (suitable for driver alignment).
 
RonMarton, 10 ms delay equals to ca. 3.5 meters (assuming 344 meter per second speed of sound at 20 degrees Celsius at sea level).
I think the DriveRack PA is a wonderful peace of gear, but the delay feature is just for 'driver alignment', not for a delay line i (and Pierrebrind) have in mind?

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#8 RonMarton

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 12:58 PM

...RonMarton, 10 ms delay equals to ca. 3.5 meters (assuming 344 meter per second speed of sound at 20 degrees Celsius at sea level).

I think the DriveRack PA is a wonderful peace of gear, but the delay feature is just for 'driver alignment', not for a delay line i (and Pierrebrind) have in mind?

 

Those figures are exactly right, Tom...

 

...Although we "old hands" find it a whole lot easier to think in approximate terms of "1ms per foot" instead of "10ms per 3.5m" !  :lol:

 

However, when dbx refer to the "output alignment delay" built into their DriveRack, they are, in fact, describing a fully transparent "delay line" with an easy to use "coarse" or "fine" rotary control that is specifically configured for the precise "Haas Effect" delay adjustment required for your secondary speaker (or, alternatively, even spotter mic to main microphone) placement, based on a "user selectable" display that shows "seconds", "feet" or "meters".

 

Just to clarify what I asked in the other post, I will not be able to use my driverack with the L6 link, but if I did need it, I suppose I could still link all the speakers (I will have in a week or so), via L6 link, after I run from the driverack to the first speaker? So my regular lines to the first speaker, then L6 link from there?

But because I don't need delay, I assume it will be best for me to connect via L6 link from the M20d to the speakers? Can't wait to get them.....so much better than speculating and wondering!

 

I reckon that what you've posted there, Digital-sound, will prove to be substantially correct, but I don't quite see the need for (or "get" the thinking behind) running DriveRack control processing between an M20d and that first StageSource speaker in an L6 Linked "daisy chain".

 

To my mind, the M20d includes a far more intuitive and quicker way of achieving pretty much all of the DriveRack's management functions, the only notable exception being the Haas Effect delay required for Tom to achieve the "stage focussed" coherent reinforcement from the "mid auditorium" array that he and Pierre have in mind.

 

I guess that (when I pointed towards that specific use of an "outboard" processor with a StageScape and StageSource based rig) I should have made it clear that those "secondary, mid-auditorium" (and mostly self-powered) "delay ring" speakers could NOT be L6 Linked, as they would have to be driven directly from that outboard Haas Effect delay processor, which was itself deriving its input from an analog output of the M20d.

 

Years of providing and tuning such "Haas Effect rigs" for troublesome venues have taught me that being forced to employ "lower spec" arrangements for those "mid-auditorium repeater" arrays is nearly always NO disadvantage whatsoever, given that "room boom", "thump" and "focus" considerations usually demand the specific exclusion of bass from everything other than its "main FOH" source.

 

So my highly successful "room-taming delay" arrays are very often "skinny lightweights" that derive their delayed signal from a "buss", "aux" or "main" mono output, without even the benefit of the processing used to tune the "main FOH" array. 


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#9 pierrebriend

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

So it is clear to me that the use of an analogic device between M20d and L2/L3 is nosense. Adding secondary mid-room speakers can be solved using a dbx driverack, but this device is overspecified for this use (50 to 80ms delay) , and rather expansive (450€)
The question about delay is still open when you "need" to set a delay on inputs, between 3 and 10 ms. Then, let's wait for LINE6 Christmas surprise
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