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Panning In Monitor Mode Independently Of Main Pa?


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#1 tochiro

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:04 AM

Hi,

 

I wondered if it's possible to pan the inputs in monitor mode independently of the main output mode?  I'm using in-ears in stereo and would like to pan the inputs in my in-ears without necessarily panning them in the main PA.

 

Thank you for your help.


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#2 silverhead

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

I am not sitting at my M20d right now to verify, and the documentation seems to be silent on this, but it may be possible. You would use the Unlinked mode to activate this if it's available. If you have defined your monitors as a stereo pair the panning feature may be available separately from the main mix, along with the monitor level, in Monitor Tweak mode.


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#3 tochiro

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:22 AM

I've tried many in various screens but cannot find a way.


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#4 Digital-sound

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:50 AM

It is only a mono signal to the monitor, so I cant see it being possible.  You would have to use two monitor sends, and adjust what you would like in each monitor mix.  Sort of like panning in that you can put more in the left monitor if you choose, depending on the level you send to the monitor.


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#5 litesnsirens

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:54 AM

But if you used two monitor signals, say monitor A and B, into a single transmitter, wouldn't you be able to use the volumes of each instrument into Monitor A and B respectively to create a stereo mix in your in ears?


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#6 Digital-sound

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:00 PM

Yeah, that is what I think. To have stereo in ears, you need to use two monitor sends. And then adjust each ear. That is what I understand. I am not sure if M20D links them or not. some boards do that.
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#7 tochiro

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:01 AM

The problem is that voices are not stereo signals and some other instruments are not stereo either.  Even for my HD500 which is a stereo pair I do not see any way of adjusting the monitor pan independently from the main PA (there's only one track)...


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#8 litesnsirens

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 06:31 AM

Well that's always the case, and when you listen to stereo there are lots of mono tracks that still get panned to some degree to one side or the other.  So if for instance you want the vocals straight up the middle equal volume from Monitor and Monitor B.  Then you can pan any of the mono instruments slightly left or right just to give a little separation until you get a mix that is comfortable for you to perform to.


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#9 Digital-sound

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:52 AM

In a live performance, it is unlikely you will have any stereo instruments with the exception of those that produce stereo (keyboards, HD500, etc) and they will also use two inputs.  We had a similar discussion in another thread on here.  You wont get a true stereo, but, you can pan things to left and right using 2 monitor sends.  You won't be able to do any panning with a signal coming out of the monitor sends (a,b,c,d) from the M20D.  You will have to use two sends.  If you want something in both ears equally (vocals?), then you must send the same amount of signal to each ear. (from each send).  Then you can put guitar over in one ear by increasing guitar in send in "A", and decreasing guitar in send "B".  And bass over in the other ear by increasing bass in send "B" and decreasing bass in send "A".

 

I am not overly familiar with IEM, but if they have a pan on them, you will still likely have to adjust at the board, and leave your IEM pan in the middle.  Assuming it just pans send A and send B.  But the first paragraph here is the only way I think you will be able to pan things or keep them in the middle on the M20D as far as a monitor mix goes.  You can do it on the front end through the PAN knob, but not on the monitors.  Just not built that way.

 

(and then I read the post above and realised it is a long winded repeat of that...more or less...sorry lites...)


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#10 tochiro

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:14 AM

Ok I conclude that you cannot pan in monitor mode independently of the main outputs.  That would be a useful update IMO...


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#11 Digital-sound

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

The update wont be possible (I don't think), as the monitor out's are mono.  Only one signal can leave.  It is not possible to pan.  If the L6 link went to a yet to be released IEM system with an L6 link, then that would be available possibly.

 

Now how about that for a new product?  IEM's from Line 6 with L6 link technology.  Wireless of course, but they could be part of the whole speaker system!  Off to the idea board I go!


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#12 litesnsirens

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

Ok I conclude that you cannot pan in monitor mode independently of the main outputs.  That would be a useful update IMO...

Well yes you could it would just be that you would have to turn two volume knobs instead of one pan knob.  It wouldn't be as clean and elegant but you could do it.  So as previously stated you have monitor A from the M20d to the left input or your IEM transmitter and monitor B to the right input of your transmitter.  

Then from Monitor Mode on the M20d, touch the first input, say lead vocal mic, tap monitor A and turn the volume of the lead vocal up then tap monitor B and turn it up the same amount.  Then you will have the lead vocal panned to the centre.  Then let's say you want guitar 1 panned a little to the left.  Tap the input of guitar 1, then tap monitor A and turn the guitar up to say 60%, tap the monitor B and turn the guitar up to say 40%.  That guitar will now sound like it's panned a little to the left.  If you need it more or less play with the levels in monitor A and B until it's sitting the way you want.  

 

So you are essentially setting the monitor level in your IEMs at the same time that you are setting the panning.  So instead of setting the level and then the pan (two knobs) you are setting level A and B (also two knobs).  This admittedly will feel a little clumsy but once you have the entire band panned and levelled the way you want in your IEM monitor mix.  You can save it and likely not have to tweak much at future gigs, since the IEMs block out the outside sound the room will have far less impact as you go from room to room.


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#13 Digital-sound

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:29 AM

I suppose that and update that could be done, would be to offer a "link" button in the software to make this easier?  Could link monitor sends?  Still like the idea of Line 6 IEM's with L6 link technology built in!


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#14 tochiro

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:12 AM

So you are essentially setting the monitor level in your IEMs at the same time that you are setting the panning.  So instead of setting the level and then the pan (two knobs) you are setting level A and B (also two knobs).  This admittedly will feel a little clumsy but once you have the entire band panned and levelled the way you want in your IEM monitor mix.  You can save it and likely not have to tweak much at future gigs, since the IEMs block out the outside sound the room will have far less impact as you go from room to room.

I use the In-ears stereo model but I cannot do that as far as I can see... My IEM is connected to Monitor Outputs A and B but there's only one icon on the display and the volume of one voice input cannot be increased on one side more than on the other.  What am I missing?


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#15 Digital-sound

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:26 AM

That is strange to me.  But I don't have a set of IEM's anymore to test it.  Maybe that is the issue the OP has?  I would think you should be able to control outputs A and B independently.  As though they were plugged into two onstage monitors.  And if they are linked in the M20d, then it is even more strange that Line6 has not set up a way to pan it.

 

I would try to set it up again first.  From scratch and watch as the icons appear when you first plug into outputs A and B, and then see if they disappear when you connect the other end of the cables to your IEM.  They shouldn't disappear.

 

EDIT - I see you are the OP.  Sorry for that oversight....


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#16 litesnsirens

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:57 AM

OK I tested out my stereo headphone theory with my IEM using channel A and channel B into my sennheiser ew300 iem system (which I just got BTW).  My report is my method works perfectly.  Channel A is everything I want into the left side Channel B is everything I want in the right side.  Then I just play with the levels that I send to each monitor mix.  If I want Bass dead centre I just send the exact same level to both channel A and B.  If I want my guitar a bit to the left I just send more of my guitar to channel A and less to Channel B and so on until I have the band completely mixed in stereo in my iems.  

 

As it was just a theory before I tested it out, I figured it would be more cumbersome than it actually turned out to be.  It was actually quite easy to do and as I said before instead of setting levels and volume separately your just setting left and right volumes separately so it's kind of a wash.  I actually didn't realize how nice a stereo in ear could be I think using stereo you could share a mix with more musicians.  In fact the mix I set up I'm sure my whole band would be happy with.  Panning the voices just slightly and the guitars a little off to each side it's really easy to pick out each instrument and voice in the mix.  So I think if you are going mono you may need more separate mixes but if you are going stereo, I can't see needing more than a couple.  I'm sure if I wanted for my band I could make two stereo mixes one that's a little more drum and bass heavy for those two musicians but really I think they would be happy with the mix that I listen to, you can hear everything very clearly, and really don't you want to hear everything so you can play off each other?

 

With that on mind it might be a simple solution to just get more belt pack receivers and then everyone can share the one mix.  I must say having messed the the iems a bit, I'm converted... I love it...


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#17 tochiro

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:28 PM

Now imagine you have a guitar that is a stereo pair in inputs 15 and16 and your IEM is also defined as a stereo pair.  Would it work?


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#18 litesnsirens

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:17 AM

I'll have to do more testing to answer that. If not a workaround might be to not stereo pair your guitar and then set up a small sub group for the guitar.

I another thread Arne says that you can make monitors send stereo pAirs and that they use the pan if the mains. He also agreed that it makes sense for monitors in stereo mode to have their own panning, maybe god idea for next firmware release.
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