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Vocal Effects Pedal > Stagescape


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#1 federalhog

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:49 PM

I'm wondering if there's any problem with using a pedal in front of the stagescape? I have a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic. I love the pedal. Before I got the stagescape, I was using this pedal > into a 3LT and it sounded awesome. I'm doing the same with the stagescape, but the pedal does the tone automatically and I'm wondering if I'm just better off shutting off all the EQ on the channel on the stagescape. 

 

Anybody else using a pedal or vocal processor in front of the stagescape?


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#2 Digital-sound

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 04:29 PM

I use a TCHelicon Voice Live play.  I take all the effects off of my vocal channel on the board, and use that of the voicelive.  It sounds great.  I like it better...but, in fairness, I have not played around with my M20d nearly as much as I should be.  We have been just way too busy.  I work at a full time day job which takes me out of town during the week, and then we have been playing at least two gigs a week.  So, I think I can get the same sound from the board alone.  I don't use the harmonies on the pedal...but I may someday.  And I am not sure if the pre amp is better on the voicelive or not, but the sound is better than I had with my 30 second set up on the M20d.

 

So I say, if you try it and like it, then use it.  I am not familiar with the pedal you are referring to.  Havent looked it up.  But, you may find you get the same from the board itself?


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#3 scotterp

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:12 PM

I used the Mic Mechanic before I got the M20d. I don't use the Mic Mechanic anymore as I find the various default settings in the M20d for vocals take care of what the Mic Mechanic did before (EQ, compression, effects). And they are tweakable where the settings in the MM are not other than how much of the effect is blended in. At least that's been my experience. YMMV. There should be no problem using it, I just found it was no longer necessary. 

 

I found the MM was a fantastic pedal when connecting into a standard mixer where I don't have the know-how to tweak optimally for vocals. The M20d simply made it redundant for me.


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#4 RonMarton

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

For what it's worth, this old fogey would keep that Mic Mechanic, either as a "back-up", or to simply retain the option of using gear that isn't as comprehensive as an M20d. 


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#5 federalhog

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:13 PM

Well to me, I can't seem to figure out the same type of effect on the M20D that the MM gives me. The MM is not adjustable, which is good for me. The M20D to me, is a great mixer, but has far too many options for someone like me that has absolutely no idea what they are doing. 


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#6 RonMarton

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:40 PM

Sincere apologies on behalf of all of us if we accidentally gave the impression that we're in any way disrespecting your query, federalhog.

 

That was definitely NOT our intention, neither is it what these forums are about, ...as you will have seen from other posts.

 

...I'm wondering if I'm just better off shutting off all the EQ on the channel on the stagescape...

 

You should also be assured, O Esteemed Federal Friend...

 

...That you'll get both

  1. The great and (probably of more importance to you) predictable results you're seeking with that "clean input" approach to your M20d's "Mic Mechanic" channel  ...and...
  2. A huge amount of joy from experimenting with the enormous additional repertoire of instantly storable and retrievable sonic "tricks" that an M20d now places at your command. 

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#7 federalhog

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:11 AM

Not offended at all. I tend to be an all business type of guy when it comes to getting things working properly. Sorry if I don't have much of a sense of humor, but I do not understand your last (science professor type) response at all Ron.  :)

 

What the Mic Mechanic does is set the tone automatically for you and also has pitch correction. I yell a lot with my music and they NAILED this pedal in my opinion and I've used lots of their products in the past  (vocal processing) and nothing really impressed me. 

 

The M20d as I said is fantastic, but has far too many options for each channel input. I've tried a dry signal from the mic, that is not using the MM and tried to setup the same type of sound I get with the MM and I did not succeed. My question is. Since the MM is doing some of the tone for me. I'm wondering if I should just run the EQ for the vocal channel in the M20D flat. 


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#8 scotterp

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:56 AM

OH! I forgot about the pitch correction in the MM. That's certainly one thing the M20d does not do. As for the EQ, you can run it flat, or I think you can simply turn it off on that channel. I've not tried that though.


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#9 litesnsirens

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:17 AM

I use TC-H Voicelive 2.  I just use a plain flat unaffected channel setting on the M20d and get all my EQ, compression and effects from the VL2.  Before I started using the TC-H stuff (Started with a voice live play GTX) it never really occurred to me how much closer you could get to nailing the vibe of a song by having the right vocal effects.  


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#10 federalhog

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:47 AM

When you have a voice like mine (Johnny Cash monotone) you need effects to make it sound 1/2 decent. 


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#11 Digital-sound

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:30 AM

Johnny made a lot of money with that voice!


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#12 RonMarton

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:21 AM

...Sorry if I don't have much of a sense of humor, but I do not understand your last (science professor type) response at all Ron.  :) ...

 

Sorry about that !    Too much "Los Pollos Hermanos", eh, Mr White ?  ;)  :lol:

 

I was hoping my last point would (more or less) reinforce this...

 

...So I say, if you try it and like it, then use it...

 

...in the hope you can find some time to "play around" with Johnny Cash's or (even better) your voice, (live or replayed) passing it through an M20d channel to either headphones or speakers, ...in order to eventually arrive at and store a "sound" (and/or a "library" of "favourite sounds") for instant recall while you're performing.

 

Most of us seem to find that sort of "playing around" to be a far more pleasurable way of gaining both familiarity and confidence with new gear than studying manuals or reading long technical descriptions. 

 

Enjoy.


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#13 federalhog

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:26 AM

Say my name!!! Say my name!!!! HEISENBERG! Best damn show on TV. 1 hour of on your seat edge stress. On season 5, have season 6 recording as well. I'm going to be pissed when the show is over. 

 

Yeah I just remembered the record function (DUH!) so I can tweak around more. I am more worried with too much processing in the signal. That's what I was getting at. I mean the MM pedal has it's own tone shaping and compression and effects. In my experience, at least with guitars and amps and such is that you don't run a compressor pedal into a rack preamp and then run compression on that as well. You see what I mean? 

 

I was just wondering if it's "the wrong thing to do" that is even run a pedal into the mixer. But I suppose they wouldn't make these pedals if they weren't compatible with using in front of a mixer eh?

 

I tend to "think" too much when it comes to this stuff. I'm a nitpicker when it comes to doing things properly and I like to do things only once, leave them be and focus on writing, playing and practicing, rather than turning knobs or freaking out about gear. You dig? 


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#14 Digital-sound

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:39 AM

Season 6? Season 5 was only half over when mine cut off. Ended at episode 8 in season 5. Have they started again??
Great great awesome series!

Way off topic.
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#15 RonMarton

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:48 AM

...I am more worried with too much processing in the signal. That's what I was getting at. I mean the MM pedal has it's own tone shaping and compression and effects. In my experience, at least with guitars and amps and such is that you don't run a compressor pedal into a rack preamp and then run compression on that as well. You see what I mean? 

 

I was just wondering if it's "the wrong thing to do" that is even run a pedal into the mixer. But I suppose they wouldn't make these pedals if they weren't compatible with using in front of a mixer eh?

 

I tend to "think" too much when it comes to this stuff. I'm a nitpicker when it comes to doing things properly and I like to do things only once, leave them be and focus on writing, playing and practicing, rather than turning knobs or freaking out about gear. You dig? 

 

Certainly do, Heisenberg...

 

...And I'm a HUGE fan of both "Breaking Bad" ...and even more (if that's possible) a fan of the "less is more" principle when it comes to signal processing, ...especially with regard to compression and limiting.

 

As for you "thinking too much", IMHO that beats the "don't give a sh#t" approach every time.

 

Also, one of the greatest things about audio is the way that there really is no "wrong thing to do", as the worst that can happen is for a particular "hook-up" to deliver a result we don't like, in which case we simply file it away in our "Never Again" folder.

 

The other side of that "coin toss" is the way that "old dogs" like me keep learning "new tricks" from you "young pups" reporting those "doing the wrong thing" experiments, so keep these posts coming...

 

...in the sure and certain knowledge that there's NO such thing is a stupid question, just the occasional stupid answer from idiots like me.


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#16 federalhog

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

Well, less is more is why I bought that pedal in the first place. Just knobs on it.  I returned my DL1608 to get this mixer, so I was without a mixer for a week or so. I can't stand singing dry, so I wanted a little reverb. I had one of those TC Helicon ARK of a vocal processor before but got rid of it; too many damn options. So I went and got the MM pedal, figuring it would sound like dirt. Well when I ran the mic Senn e935 > MM pedal > L3T I was blown away. I don't really even need the damn mixer for what I do. But it's nice to have options if you need it. I have a full  band but the only time we do sound is when we rehearse. 99% of the time we're at the mercy of sound guys with ZERO drive and ZERO passion, using equipment from 1960. But it's nice to know I have one of the best rigs out there. I also have way too much for this basement / space we have in regards to the amount of equipment. 3 3LM's one 3LT, 2 2LT's and my bass players L3T. LOL. We don't use all of that at once.  Once the upright bassist comes it all goes to sh*t, when the drummer arrives it goes straight to hell with no return ticket. Anyhow, I'm off on a tangent here. Back on track. 


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#17 dboomer

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:17 PM

Well to me, I can't seem to figure out the same type of effect on the M20D that the MM gives me. The MM is not adjustable, which is good for me. The M20D to me, is a great mixer, but has far too many options for someone like me that has absolutely no idea what they are doing. 

 

Dont feel you have to make any adjustments just because you paid for the knobs ;) .  Just try some different presets and if you feel the need to adjust something use the "Quick Tweak" controllers.  If your ear doesn't hear a change for the better than no adjustment was necessary.



#18 kolelsam

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:54 AM

I think it all depends on the type of vocal effects pedal you have. Ive used my BOSS VE-20 for 3 years and know it back to front. It gives me awesome harmonies, increased volume and different FX sounds (not that I use pitch correction - I'm awesome ha ha) at a tap of the pedal. I am in total control of my pedal as it is accessable with my foot. I find the use of a foot switch to control different scenes a lot more of an issue. Especialy if your not sure you hit the pedal or not during performance and your mixer is the other side of the stage and you dont know what scene your on. Whilst performing it also looks worse if your fiddling with buttons and tapping touch pads with your hands, the audience just accepts you using your feet its what they are used to seeing.

 

My advice is that ease of use and familiarity with your equiptment and your performance comes first. So if it is a problem or concern to use scenes then stick with what you know. However, use your practice/own time wisely and experiment with the M20D and see what you come up with.

 

Im sticking to my pedal for the FX as it has more and they are better....using the M20D for the Feedback Detection, Auto Trim, Gate, De-sser,Compresser and Eq's etc....


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#19 RonMarton

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:06 PM

...My advice is that ease of use and familiarity with your equipment and your performance comes first.   [Ron M's emphasis]  So if it is a problem or concern to use scenes then stick with what you know.  [Ron M's emphasis]  However, use your practice/own time wisely and experiment with the M20D and see what you come up with...

 

...And THAT "pearl" of wisdom, my young whippersnappers, is indeed worth far more than the proverbial "price above rubies".


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#20 diggerbarnz

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:46 PM

if u ended up getting the VL2...then trade up for a 3 you WON'T be disappointed - they really got they're $%@$# together


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