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#81 TheRealZap

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:59 PM

I think this is a universal truth.

 

I'm also very annoyed and disappointed that this doesn't work.


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#82 silverhead

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:54 PM


.

 

I appreciate the attempts of the Line6 apologists,

 

I'm certainly not trying to be an apologist here. You seemed to be extrapolating form the service guy's comments, and reading into it that Line 6 does not ever intend to fix this. That may be, and you're certainly entitled to that interpretation. I was only offering another interpretation - namely that he's not trying to dance on the grave of anything; he simply really doesn't know. That's all he said. You can read into that whatever you want.
.


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
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#83 brue58ski

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:27 PM

Just to throw some hope in here.  I am hoping that the Yamaha purchase has put some things on hold until they looked into how things were being run employee/management wise, and maybe did/are going to do some tweaking.  That's what I'm hoping.  Having said that I'm VERY disappointed in how long this is taking.  The JTV spank model position 2 issue is definitely a problem and not an unrealized feature.  So I'm expecting at least one more patch/upgrade, whatever you want to call it, before it's completely abandoned.  Hoping HD500 connectivity will be coming with that. And if it's not, LET US KNOW!!  I don't think it was unreasonable at all to expect this kind of connectivity since it's been in everything else before.  And to say anyone shouldn't have expected it since it wasn't promised is a bit disingenuous.  Especially since, as we know ad nauseum, they don't comment on anything "in the pipes" which only leaves us to speculate based on past actoins.  I too will be saying goodbye to Line 6 if this doesn't happen.  And I've been a Line 6 boy for a long time.


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#84 sandman69

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

That's all fine and dandy if it wasn't stated in the Workbench HD Manual that is DOES work through the HD500 or any other Line 6 device that has the VDI interface.

 

Page 13 of the Workbench HD manual, that is STILL online and not updated to address this bug.  So not only is it a bug it is false documentation.   I just bought my Variax JTV59 after having my POD HD500 since it came out.  Which I love.   I looked at the manual, prior to buying my JTV.  Hey sweet, I can do everything with both HD Edit and Workbench HD.   Flash everything to get the latest models and it doesn't work as documented.   Pretty sad if you ask me.   Very disappointed to discover this after the fact.   Guess I should have read the forums more.   Luckily the guitar plays and sounds sweet, but should work as documented.  Period.

 

Which Line 6 devices will work as a computer interface with my Tyler Variax and Workbench HD?

The Variax Digital Interface that came with your Tyler Variax is the best interface to use with Workbench

HD. You’ll need a fully charged battery and a 1/4 inch guitar cable plugged in to power up your Variax.

Any other Line 6 device with a VDI input will also work. This includes the POD HD Pro, POD HD 500, POD

X3 Live, POD X3 Pro and Vetta II. Those devices, when connected to your Variax with a Line 6 VDI cable, will

also provide power to your Variax.

 

 

Ok, you be mad.

 

I'm not apologizing for anything... 

and you can do what you want or hold a grudge and be a miserable person in general...

but it works.... if you don't like how it works... flash back and be happy...

or you just have to wait until its ready.


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#85 TheRealZap

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:56 PM

It really doesn't matter what it says...

reality is what matters...

or quoting myself:

 

"if you don't like how it works... flash back and be happy...

or you just have to wait until its ready."

 

I'm certain we'd all like it to work through the VDI but it doesn't...

we can all have a good cry.....

or we can work with what we have until they fix it...

and i'm certain they will...

 

again.. we could write manuals about a button that promises epic talent...

and it still wouldn't be reality...

come join us.

 

That's all fine and dandy if it wasn't stated in the Workbench HD Manual that is DOES work through the HD500 or any other Line 6 device that has the VDI interface.

 

Page 13 of the Workbench HD manual, that is STILL online and not updated to address this bug.  So not only is it a bug it is false documentation.   I just bought my Variax JTV59 after having my POD HD500 since it came out.  Which I love.   I looked at the manual, prior to buying my JTV.  Hey sweet, I can do everything with both HD Edit and Workbench HD.   Flash everything to get the latest models and it doesn't work as documented.   Pretty sad if you ask me.   Very disappointed to discover this after the fact.   Guess I should have read the forums more.   Luckily the guitar plays and sounds sweet, but should work as documented.  Period.

 

Which Line 6 devices will work as a computer interface with my Tyler Variax and Workbench HD?

The Variax Digital Interface that came with your Tyler Variax is the best interface to use with Workbench

HD. You’ll need a fully charged battery and a 1/4 inch guitar cable plugged in to power up your Variax.

Any other Line 6 device with a VDI input will also work. This includes the POD HD Pro, POD HD 500, POD

X3 Live, POD X3 Pro and Vetta II. Those devices, when connected to your Variax with a Line 6 VDI cable, will

also provide power to your Variax.


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#86 sandman69

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:06 PM

Sure a document I write up doesn't matter what it says.  Unless of course I am making a commercial product that I am making money off of.  I would make damn well sure that the documentation matches the capabilities.    Especially, capabilities that have been around with older version of the software.

 

Doesn't matter what it says?    That is hilarious.     

 

 

Mmmmm Koolaid.  Strawberry is my favorite, Grape is a close second.

 

7 or 8 months they could at least fix the documentation  ;)

 

To quote someone earlier in this thread "They tell you up front it doesn't work"  

 

Ummmm, where is that information at?   Not on any of the JTV Features or Specifications pages...


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#87 TheRealZap

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:20 PM

well let's put it this way....

 

it is what it is.

 

if the document says its anything other than what it is...

 

does that change what it is?

............................................

 

that's my point about it not mattering...

 

the release notes for the firmware update explicitly stated that it would not work....

so it overrides this anyway... as far as official/legal whatnot.

.............................................

 

you can be mad... and i want it to work as much as anyone....

but why dafuq would anyone spend all their energy crying and screaming about koolaid and apologists...

none of that alters the reality....

they will fix this, i'm certain of it.

until then...

well i guess keep crying why the rest of us play guitar.


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#88 sandman69

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:29 PM

Ok, first off, I am not crying.  I am not screaming.  I am just stating my opinion as a paying customer and longtime supporter of Line6 on something that should have been addressed by now and actually should never have been a problem.

 

I am also not spending all of my energy on this.  You appear to be spending the most energy in this thread bitching and complaining about people not being happy that something that should be simple to fix since the USB via VDI communication was already there.

BTW, most people don't read Firmware update documentation before they actually have the product to be updated.    They should have updated their documentation and stated somewhere on the Features page "Workbench HD Communication must use included USB adapter"


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#89 brue58ski

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

"well let's put it this way....

 

it is what it is.

 

if the document says its anything other than what it is...

 

does that change what it is?"

 

 

So let's see, Line 6 said something would happen in writing and it didn't happen and our attitude is supposed to be "it is what it is"?  lollipop.  Using that attitude, Madoff promised high returns on investments in writing to many people.  Oh well, it didn't happen, it is what it is.  Carry on your merry way Mr. Madoff.  And you people that lost your life savIngs.  Waddaya gonna do?  Cry?  Quit your whining and move on!!!

This may be an extreme example but the principle is the same.  Normally I agree with the "experts" but I think you're way off on this one.  They did the same thing with the Variax Bass.  Workbench capability promised in the manual but never transpired.  And that was one of the main reasons I bought a Variax bass. And let's not forget the acknowledged Vetta bugs that got pushed to the side of the road. 

 

No more Vetta support, deal with it. 

 

Not that they couldn't fix them, they just wouldn't.  I mostly got over those but if it happens again, good-bye Line 6.


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#90 TheRealZap

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

they did BUT they didn't

 

the firmware notes explicitly state this function does not work.

 

and it WILL happen.. just hasn't happened yet.

your attitude doesn't need to be  "it is what it is"... that's just yours, mine, and our reality.

 

 

 

So let's see, Line 6 said something would happen in writing and it didn't happen and our attitude is supposed to be "it is what it is"?  lollipop.  


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#91 brue58ski

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:39 PM

I am comforted by your saying it will happen.  Thank you for that.  Sure has been awhile though.


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#92 Geekydaddy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:46 PM

Coulda , shoulda , woulda bought an AXE FX if ......


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#93 alsithi

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 04:33 AM

Line6 states this in the latest release notes for the HD500:

 

"Variax Workbench HD will not connect via POD HD - use the VDI/USB interface included with your JTV as a workaround"

 

This clearly implies that a: Line6 accepts this is a definite issue which needs to be resolved, and b: It will be resolved sometime in the future.

 

My opinion is simply that the 'fix' will be available when it is ready, but also that 2.0 should not have been released until then. However, it was, so we each have our own option for dealing with this, which in my case is sticking with 1.90.

 

It's not a drama, not a complaint, merely an observation.


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#94 cruisinon2

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:01 AM

Line6 states this in the latest release notes for the HD500:

 

"Variax Workbench HD will not connect via POD HD - use the VDI/USB interface included with your JTV as a workaround"

 

This clearly implies that a: Line6 accepts this is a definite issue which needs to be resolved, and b: It will be resolved sometime in the future.

 

My opinion is simply that the 'fix' will be available when it is ready, but also that 2.0 should not have been released until then. However, it was, so we each have our own option for dealing with this, which in my case is sticking with 1.90.

 

It's not a drama, not a complaint, merely an observation.

 

I'm not complaining either, and nobody can read the mind of the whomever drafted the release notes. But simply acknowledging a problem really doesn't imply an impending solution at all. In fact, all it really says is what everybody already knows. Then they're giving us the solution in the next sentence...use the USB interface. Technically, it's "resolved"...not to anyone's satisfaction, but resolved notheless. I'm not holding my breath.


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#95 flabergaster

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:14 AM

We all seem to agree that it should be fixed. Most seem to agree, or at least feel, that Line6 will eventually do the right thing and provide the fix.

 

The point of this whole thread is: Why are we still waiting 8 months later?

 

It has been my observance of today's corporate world that companies put emphasis on that which impacts their future sales, and will relegate problems with things that they've already been paid for to the back burner. It will sit their simmering until someone gets around to dealing with it, or until it starts to boil over or scorch, causing enough of a mess or smell to make future customers pause before trying the new items on the menu.

 

It seems that the squeaking wheels from this thread aren't close enough to the ears that matter to move this issue to the front burner. If they were listening to us, you'd think they would comment, with something like "Calm down guys. We've got a team of folks working to get this fixed." What reason do we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially in light of the newly released AMPLIFi line, which I'm sure used resources that could have been put toward this issue.

 

I had an idea, but I don't have the equipment to carry it out.  A truthful YouTube video review of the JTV and the HD500 focused on this very issue might get their attention. If someone had the video equipment to do this, a simple video showing the ease of the "before" process, followed by the hassle of the "after" process, and highlighting the fact that the fix for this is not available 8 months later, and that Line6 hasn't even let it be known if it can (or will) be corrected, wouldn't be that difficult.

 

I haven't bought any music gear recently that I haven't searched YouTube for a video review, prior to purchasing. I'm sure that Line6 knows this. They

have several video reviews they've done themselves.

 

The way I see it, either this problem can't be fixed without a completely new revision, or there is no excuse for it to still exist. If Line6 would have waited until the dish was done prior to serving it up, we might still be wondering when it is coming instead of wondering why we're dealing with a design flaw.

 

I know its not like we're talking a huge amount of money by corporate standards, but nearly $2k (for a JTV and an HD500) is a lot of money for most of us. When I spend that kind of jack, I shouldn't expect protracted use of a "work around". It's not that I can't get great sounds from Line6 gear. Its the fact that Line6 is damaging my trust in them as a company by disrespecting a prior commitment.  That is no way to treat your customers, at least not if you expect to keep them.


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#96 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 06:17 AM

Everybody is forgetting here that Line6 never had to introduce WB HD or 2.0 JTV  FW.  They gave that to us free.  If they put their resources on other projects I can understand that.  People talk here like they owe it to us to fix these Free programs for us.  I agree that it would be nice if they did but I don't think they owe us anything!


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#97 philippjost

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 07:32 AM

Everybody is forgetting here that Line6 never had to introduce WB HD or 2.0 JTV  FW.  They gave that to us free.  If they put their resources on other projects I can understand that.  People talk here like they owe it to us to fix these Free programs for us.  I agree that it would be nice if they did but I don't think they owe us anything!

 

they are NOT free programms, they come packaged with the deal... the WB is pretty useless if you don't buy a Variax... you can also download drivers for free, they are useless without the hardware, and if someone who owns that hardware complains about the drivers not working as they did before, you can't tell them "shut up, they are free programms"


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#98 Melissiah

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 08:20 AM

Too bad I already reach my daily positive feedbacks I can give cause there is so much good post in there that I can see way too often and they are right to think so IMO.

 

8 months is a lot of time in technology theses days and stay silent as dead open the gate for customers speculations and frustrations.

 

I hope at least they will read that post and the one I created few days ago on the same subject.


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#99 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 08:53 AM

The new WB is a Free program that Line6 released for use by anyone that already  owned or is buying a JTV (and is willing to upgrade to 2.0).  There was an old WB so they did not have to release a new one.  AND the old one works with pods.


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#100 arislaf

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 10:48 AM

The new WB is a Free program that Line6 released for use by anyone that already  owned or is buying a JTV (and is willing to upgrade to 2.0).  There was an old WB so they did not have to release a new one.  AND the old one works with pods.

So then why not let us with the old version and old workbench, instead of given a half backed  2.0 version? And yes the program is free, but we pay for the guitar with the knowledge of the abilities of the guitar..How many JTVs bricked by the 2.0 version? And how many bugs exist? too much for a 1000 euro instrument, plus the poor setup and the problematic knobs-switches... Nevermind the connectivity with the pods, but the strato work arround, the volume on E and B, those are true bugs.

 

In the very end, line 6 is losing more than us, that we support the company many years...


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#101 sandman69

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:09 PM

Axe FX won't control the Variax either ;)   :P

 

Coulda , shoulda , woulda bought an AXE FX if ......


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#102 Geekydaddy

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:18 PM

Axe FX won't control the Variax either ;)   :P

 Don't need the Variax with my PRS  :lol:


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#103 sandman69

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:20 PM

I think you are in the wrong forums ;)

 

 

 Don't need the Variax with my PRS  :lol:


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#104 Geekydaddy

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:24 PM

Everybody is forgetting here that Line6 never had to introduce WB HD or 2.0 JTV  FW.  They gave that to us free.  If they put their resources on other projects I can understand that.  People talk here like they owe it to us to fix these Free programs for us.  I agree that it would be nice if they did but I don't think they owe us anything!

  Not exactly free upgrades. I paid $1300 for a guitar that without the "included" hardware should sell for $800-900ish. I purchased the Variax KNOWING that it was software "expandable".


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#105 Geekydaddy

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:27 PM

I think you are in the wrong forums ;)

 Maybe you misunderstood... sorry


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#106 arislaf

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:53 PM

Axe FX won't control the Variax either ;)   :P

That is the point.Both cant' control the variax, so why get a pod?


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#107 sandman69

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 04:19 PM

That is the point.Both cant' control the variax, so why get a pod?

 

Yeah but the fix is right around the corner! ;)


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#108 Geekydaddy

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 04:50 PM

LOL ....  

 

 I purchased my first HD 500 in November 2010 using various guitars with it. Next came a JTV 69 in January of 2012. I decided to """" upgrade """" to the 500X in August of 2013 thinking the best was yet to come ...  

 

I do really enjoy the "marriage" of the HD/JTV and their ability to do so much together ;)


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#109 arislaf

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 11:50 PM

Yeah but the fix is right around the corner! ;)

We shall see...


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#110 sandman69

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:21 PM

LOL ....  

 

 I purchased my first HD 500 in November 2010 using various guitars with it. Next came a JTV 69 in January of 2012. I decided to """" upgrade """" to the 500X in August of 2013 thinking the best was yet to come ...  

 

I do really enjoy the "marriage" of the HD/JTV and their ability to do so much together ;)

 

How much of an upgrade from the 500 do you think the 500x is?   I have been toying with upgrading mine as well.   I have had my HD500 since Nov 2010 and it is one of my best purchases through the many years.  I simply love it.   However, I really love the dual amp capabilities which unfortunately leads to out of DSP pretty easy and I usually juggle a few and use a different preset for some variations.

 

I watched one review of the 500x and it didn't seem to give as much DSP headroom as I was expecting.   He was able to add like one more effect on his example preset compared to the 500.  Other reviewers have mentioned a couple additional effects, but that probably depends on which ones you are using as some use more DSP than others.   They also talk about how much greater the switches are compared to the 500.  Personally, I think the 500 switches are pretty damn solid as it is and the thing is pretty much a tank itself.   The lights on the 500 are just fine and if I wanted to make the Looper Text more readable I can do that myself.

Would have been nice if they added some other simple niceties (Power Switch and a better/longer power brick. )

So other than a little more headroom, I am not sure it is even worth looking at upgrading.   So I can focus my fund saving for a DT25 in the future quicker if I don't go the X route.

 

Anyway, gotten off topic.   Let me start up Monkey and see if there is a new release to Workbench HD or Variax Firmware...  Nope.  I will check again in a hour or so 


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#111 Geekydaddy

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 03:15 AM

Perhaps mistakenly , I assumed that with the arrival of the 500X that Line 6 had BIG plans for the HD. Sure the switches are nicer and the processor a bit more powerful as one doesn't "DSP" out quite as quick BUT it wasn'tt worth the dineros in hindsight. I should have moved in a different direction with perhaps an Eleven rack or AXE .

 

 Like most players that are starting out by buying substandard instruments as the money spent climbs to the level of a PRO grade guitar (which maybe should have been bought sooner rather than later). I have under my belt two HD500's and one JTV which are wonderful to use live.

 

 But back to  the USB interface issue which in effect is like having to boost start your vehicle. My time available is limited and when I want to use WB HD my battery is usually dead and req's me to wait. My supplied USB/VDI cable is getting REAL TIRED too.

 

 I WILL NOT buy a new Line 6 pedal board if/when it is released. Just way too slow in the FW upgrades.


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#112 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:20 AM

I'm not sure I would dump my HD500 to buy the HD500x but the HD500x is definitely an upgrade.  I really like mine - but I was upgrading from the X3live.


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#113 sandman69

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:50 AM

Very good points and thanks for the feedback.   Until I was thinking about upgrading my HD I hadn't really read anything about the 500x.   Pretty disappointmented it wasn't a bigger upgrade.  But at least they didn't bump the price up more, so guess it isn't aimed at existing customers mainly new ones.  So financially makes sense, but why add an X to it.  Shoulda been HD500 version 2.   

 

That is one of the big reasons I want the USB bug resolved.  Would be nice not worrying about the battery pack.   Mostly though, once the guitar settings are done it isn't a huge deal.  But would be nice to update everything via the Pod for little tweaks.     Would be REALLY cool is if you connected a Variax to things and HDEdit itself would enable an additional tab where all the Variax adjustments could be made.   That would be slick.  One app to rule them all.


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#114 TheRealZap

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:53 AM

you do lose one capability with the 500x also...

only reason i'm mentioning it is because of the forum in which this discussion exists.

 

the original workbench software will not work with any of the x models.

they do not plan to add that functionality.

they still plan to add workbench HD functionality to all of the variax enabled pods.

essentially the older software is no longer supported/upgraded.

 

if you have a generation 1 variax you will probably prefer the non-x models for this reason.


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#115 sandman69

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

you do lose one capability with the 500x also...

only reason i'm mentioning it is because of the forum in which this discussion exists.

 

the original workbench software will not work with any of the x models.

they do not plan to add that functionality.

they still plan to add workbench HD functionality to all of the variax enabled pods.

essentially the older software is no longer supported/upgraded.

 

 

 

Hmmm, that's interesting Zap.   Doesn't make logical sense to me, but I guess they changed something up with the X's USB configuration.   The 500X doesn't work with the Variax either using Workbench HD either right?

 

Now if that was the case, I would definitely entertain an upgrade.  Hey that could be a shady way for Line6 to boost X upgrade sales  ;)


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#116 TheRealZap

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:19 PM

None of the pods work directly with workbench HD.... yet.

not even the x versions.

 

Hmmm, that's interesting Zap.   Doesn't make logical sense to me, but I guess they changed something up with the X's USB configuration.   The 500X doesn't work with the Variax either using Workbench HD either right?

 

Now if that was the case, I would definitely entertain an upgrade.  Hey that could be a shady way for Line6 to boost X upgrade sales  ;)


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#117 sandman69

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:14 AM

That's what I thought.   Seems odd that the older Workbench wouldn't work through the X versions.   Guess they are at more of a disadvantage than regular 500 users.


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#118 brue58ski

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:36 PM

Just so people understand why the 500X appeared.  It was because the chip Line6 was using was discontinued and the chip they could use to replace it had more power.  So they had two choices, don't utilize the extra power or use the extra power.  They took the obvious choice and used the extra power.  Now, do you just put it in there, let people discover it and lollipop off all the people that bought an HD500 before the new chip.  Bad idea.  Here's a good one.  Give the HD500's with the new, more powerful chip, a different designation so everyone will know it is different.  Hey and maybe improve another thing or two while we're doing it.  That's what they did.  For the same price as the one with the discontinued chip, I might add.  It wasn't a big consipiracy to try and squeeze more money out of previous HD500 owners or fool anybody or anything like that.  They had to use a chip that was a slight bit more powerful.  If you have and HD500,in my opinion it's not worth buying a whole new 500 for what improvements I get.  But that's OK.  They could have just kept their mouths shut and not used the extra power at all.  The HD500X is essentially an HD500 with a little more processing power.  That's all.  Not more capabilities just a little more processing power.


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#119 silverhead

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

.... and improved footswitches... as you say, while they were at it.....


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
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#120 arislaf

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:03 PM

But no support for the old workbench...


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