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Variax 2.0 Spank Bug ?


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#41 1999

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:57 AM

Try this to see if it will work for you guys.   You should be able to save it now. There is nowhere else to share, so I put it in my google drive.  Here is position 2 setting .

 

Derek and fremen .. thanx for pointing this out and posting the temp. solution.  You guys rock  ;)

 

1999


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#42 TheRealZap

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:23 AM

then i guess 2.0 isn't for you... i have been told that after performing the workaround that hugo suggested that the strat is as intended.

the only thing they are going to fix is the need for the workaround.

that's as fixed as it's going to get... beyond that you can use workbench hd to change to your fit your own personal ideal.

 

Not true... I never used Workbench HD, and I was so unsatisfied with the Spank models that I "downgraded" to 1.9.  While the "quack" from 2 and 4 are important, position 3 is just as important. The new Spank just didn't cut it at all.

 

As I have posted elsewhere, I loved nearly all of the other HD models. Can't wait until the Strat is fixed...


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#43 snhirsch

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:40 AM

Okay. I have looked at my preset. I don't see any mistakes.

When you notice the bridge pickup being down near the bridge on preset 2, it is OFF. Ignore it. The middle pickup is now the bridge pickup. Just use your ears. It is very evident that it works as noticed in Fremen's video. If you notice on my position 4 preset the bridge angle is off, ignore it. The pickup is OFF. ;)

Position 2

Position 4


Let me know if you have any troubles with this, but please, listen to it and tell me it doesn't sound better. :)

 

For whatever reason, my reply never appeared.  When I load your Strat2 file it initially behaved exactly the same as the 2.0 firmware.  I had to cycle the bridge p/u off/on before getting the correct sound - and even after that it reverted back to the incorrect behavior when uploaded to the guitar.  After going through several rounds, lo and behold it started working!  I'm not going to touch it until Line6 releases an update.  Nor sure what was going on nor why it suddenly began to cooperate.

 

I have not tried your Strat4 sound since it's not clear to me that there's any problem with that setting.  It does not sound like the old Strat4, but it's distinctly different from 3 and 5. 


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#44 phil_m

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:40 AM

As I have posted elsewhere, I loved nearly all of the other HD models. Can't wait until the Strat is fixed...

 

I don't think it's going to be fixed. It's not broken.


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#45 Junis

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:49 AM

I would very much like the line 6 to hurry to fix these serious bugs in strat


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#46 Junis

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:53 AM

phil but you do not consider the fact not be possible to save the bridge and pickups together through a defect? in fact, what we did was a form of work out, as we say in Brazil, a little Brazilian way, but it seems clear that there is a software problem seems to be solved

I don't think it's going to be fixed. It's not broken.


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#47 johnbartus

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:24 AM

then i guess 2.0 isn't for you... i have been told that after performing the workaround that hugo suggested that the strat is as intended.

the only thing they are going to fix is the need for the workaround.

that's as fixed as it's going to get... beyond that you can use workbench hd to change to your fit your own personal ideal.

 

The need for a workaround is a problem that needs to be fixed. The fact that we have to have a workaround to get the Strat model sounding like a Strat is a problem that needs to be fixed. Once the problem is fixed, I will gladly re-upgrade to 2.0 -- but when a good 50% of my live gig sounds are Strats, I need a model that sounds like a Strat. I can always go back to playing a real Strat anytime. I really like, however, the flexibility of having a JTV with all the models so I can leave my Strats, Teles, and acoustics at home.

 

The first step is admitting that there really is a problem...

 

;) 


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#48 TheRealZap

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:44 AM

yeah, by all means if it's just eliminating that position 2/4 bug is the fix you're looking for... its going to be done...

i thought you said you wanted positions 1/3/5 to be somehow different... that's not going to happen.

they've admitted that one and are working on it....

i think everyone here loves the variax.. :)

 

The need for a workaround is a problem that needs to be fixed. The fact that we have to have a workaround to get the Strat model sounding like a Strat is a problem that needs to be fixed. Once the problem is fixed, I will gladly re-upgrade to 2.0 -- but when a good 50% of my live gig sounds are Strats, I need a model that sounds like a Strat. I can always go back to playing a real Strat anytime. I really like, however, the flexibility of having a JTV with all the models so I can leave my Strats, Teles, and acoustics at home.

 

The first step is admitting that there really is a problem...

 

;)


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#49 johnbartus

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:17 AM

As Frankenstein would say,

 

"Variax... GOOD!!!"

 

:) 


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#50 phil_m

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:58 AM

phil but you do not consider the fact not be possible to save the bridge and pickups together through a defect? in fact, what we did was a form of work out, as we say in Brazil, a little Brazilian way, but it seems clear that there is a software problem seems to be solved

 

There is a bug in Workbench that needs to and will be fixed. But the base Strat sound in the HD update is not going to be changed. Once the bug in Workbench is corrected, though, it will make it easier for people get a sound that is more like the 1.9 sound without going through a workaround procedure.


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#51 Line6Hugo

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:13 PM

Hello,

 

Just want to reiterate that we are currently fixing a bug in Workbench HD v2.01.0 that can defeat the bridge pickup sound uploading models that use the bridge+middle pickup combination to the JTV. Users who have uploaded (even an unmodified) Spank-2 patch either individually or as part of a bank or bundle, will now have a patch which sounds identical to Spank 3 in that position.

 

Users who have not uploaded Spank-2 to the guitar via workbench will have the correct bridge+middle model based on the 1959 Stratocaster in Spank 2.

 

Users affected by the issue can use the following workaround to repair affected patches or create new Bridge+Middle patches:

 

1. Begin w/ the desired patch loaded in workbench making sure that the bridge and middle pickup slots are turned on.

2. Choose either the middle or bridge pickup and note the position, angle, level and model settings of either pickup.

3. Select the neck pickup slot (which should be OFF at this point) and enter the settings noted in the previous step.

4. The bridge/middle/neck labeling for the pickup slots may have changed dynamically at this point, note which pickup is OFF.

5. Turn OFF the pickup chosen in step 2.

6. Turn ON the pickup noted in step 4.

7. Upload this patch to the guitar.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Line6Hugo


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#52 Junis

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:19 PM

hugo, in my case I did download the patch workhound, but even so I would have corrected spank and do it again when the new update is released, we can all have this update right?

Hello,

 

Just want to reiterate that we are currently fixing a bug in Workbench HD v2.01.0 that can defeat the bridge pickup sound uploading models that use the bridge+middle pickup combination to the JTV. Users who have uploaded (even an unmodified) Spank-2 patch either individually or as part of a bank or bundle, will now have a patch which sounds identical to Spank 3 in that position.

 

Users who have not uploaded Spank-2 to the guitar via workbench will have the correct bridge+middle model based on the 1959 Stratocaster in Spank 2.

 

Users affected by the issue can use the following workaround to repair affected patches or create new Bridge+Middle patches:

 

1. Begin w/ the desired patch loaded in workbench making sure that the bridge and middle pickup slots are turned on.

2. Choose either the middle or bridge pickup and note the position, angle, level and model settings of either pickup.

3. Select the neck pickup slot (which should be OFF at this point) and enter the settings noted in the previous step.

4. The bridge/middle/neck labeling for the pickup slots may have changed dynamically at this point, note which pickup is OFF.

5. Turn OFF the pickup chosen in step 2.

6. Turn ON the pickup noted in step 4.

7. Upload this patch to the guitar.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Line6Hugo


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#53 Inerzia

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:49 PM

At last! the experts acknowledged there is a problem that needs to be fixed. We're saved!
BTW, the strat DOES have another problem. Strings 1 and 2 are quite lower in volume (and it's not just my case, it's something that many people have reported since 2.0 came out), something that doesn't happen with other bodies.
Yes, I know I can fix it with workbench, and that's exactly what I did, but it's still a defect ...and please, no one tell me it's a matter of taste...


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#54 AdInfinitum

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:20 AM

Why can't Line6 include both the 1.9 and 2.0 Strat in the new firmware? There are enough of their customers who are complaining they don't particularly like the sound of the "HD" Strat. So, why is Line6 forcing users to choose between the two. And yes, Line6 is making users choose. Please don't say "if they don't like the new Strat then don't upgrade." There are many additional features besides an upgraded Strat sound in the update. Users should forego all of that because Line6 makes an arbitrary decision to "fix something that was broken".

For example, when the Axe-FX updates an amp model and the users say, "hey, I really loved the old one" Fractal will frequently include the old amp model in the next update.

I really can't understand why companies can't just add the new models, but keep the old ones as well. Let the users choose what models they want. Isn't that the whole point of the Variax in the first place?
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#55 phil_m

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 07:37 AM

I really can't understand why companies can't just add the new models, but keep the old ones as well. Let the users choose what models they want. Isn't that the whole point of the Variax in the first place?

 

I think a big part of comes down to service and maintaining the base code. I suppose they could possible make the different models available through Workbench, but even then it could become troublesome. If you have models that were constructed using one modeling technique and others that were made another way, if issues come up with things, it could be a real pain trying to work back through two different modeling paths.

 

I think what's different with the update compared to other Line 6 updates is that typically Line 6 doesn't radically alter the core sounds of an existing product. Usually the only do that with a hardware change. The Variax was weird because even though the hardware was updated in 2010, the software models weren't updated beyond some tweaking until now. But the original Variax models are almost 10 years old now, and that's a really long time for a platform. I think Line 6 decided now was the time to renew the platform.


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#56 TheRealZap

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:08 AM

there's also the probability that they had to update the variax "engine" that renders the models to audio...

perhaps playing the old models on the new engine would not sound the same anyway.... as in it isn't possible without tweaking the old models... which they are done with and have no intention of tweaking further.

just one theory....

but they give you the tool to do your own tweaking in workbench HD...

the new models are here to stay.


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#57 ReverendLove

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:16 AM

It's supposable or nearly obvious that they cannot do it. If they use a complete new code, then structures, data types, classes and everything like this changed.
For the old models they would have to implement a converter in the firmware for the price of loosing processing power.


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#58 davemed

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:51 AM

Is anyone else also unhappy with the new Chime settings in the HD update?


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#59 johnnyayyy

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:16 AM

It's supposable or nearly obvious that they cannot do it. If they use a complete new code, then structures, data types, classes and everything like this changed.
For the old models they would have to implement a converter in the firmware for the price of loosing processing power.

 

Obvious solution:

 

1. buy a used Variax 300 for next to nothing (usually around $200)

 

2. install Variax 300 guts in JTV next to JTV guts

 

3. Add an A/B/ switch to choose between old Variax sounds and 2.0 sounds

 

Or just play the Variax 300 when you want the old sounds

 

Or just leave 1.9 installed and enjoy it.

 

Or reinstall the firmware when you want to change between sounds

 

Or tweak the 2.0 sounds in Workbench til they sound exactly like the 1.9 sounds (someone will eventually do this and provide the results as a download, thus becoming a hero to a few here ( I would start by rolling off the tone knob and decreasing the volume in 2.0, that should get you in the ballpark).

 

Or work the EQ on a POD HD til it sounds like the old tones. I know, I know, "But the EQ in the POD HD is labeled in % and I can only use and EQ that is labled in Hz or Db!".

 

Adapt/evolve or die, as they say... or: "you must choose, but choose wisely, for as the real grail brings eternal life, the false grail brings death"

 


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#60 offashead

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:18 AM

Is anyone else also unhappy with the new Chime settings in the HD update?

I reckon it's major improvement, give it time. These new models ( all of them) do sound a little different but better to me, and like anything that changes it can be drastic to some and not to others. However having not had the guitar long I didn't get to know the previous versions in great detail, never the less I can tell the difference


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#61 davemed

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:38 AM

I do have a Ric 360/12C63, 620 custom, ...and had a 381V69 I sold.  Nothing sounds better than the real thing of course.   I found a workaround for both my dissapointments with strat quack and ric settings by simply using my compressor.  It also adds unwanted volume so I have to turn the volume knob on the guitar down, but thats not a biggie.  I tried messing with the settings in Workbench HD and just couldnt get it where I wanted and was afraid I was making it worse.  I must say that in this update I am extremely pleased with the updated acoustic (6 and 12 string) settings.  


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#62 ReverendLove

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:41 AM

Obvious solution:

 

1. buy a used Variax 300 for next to nothing (usually around $200)

 

2. install Variax 300 guts in JTV next to JTV guts

 

3. Add an A/B/ switch to choose between old Variax sounds and 2.0 sounds

 

Or just play the Variax 300 when you want the old sounds

 

Or just leave 1.9 installed and enjoy it.

 

Or reinstall the firmware when you want to change between sounds

 

Or tweak the 2.0 sounds in Workbench til they sound exactly like the 1.9 sounds (someone will eventually do this and provide the results as a download, thus becoming a hero to a few here ( I would start by rolling off the tone knob and decreasing the volume in 2.0, that should get you in the ballpark).

 

Or work the EQ on a POD HD til it sounds like the old tones. I know, I know, "But the EQ in the POD HD is labeled in % and I can only use and EQ that is labled in Hz or Db!".

 

Adapt/evolve or die, as they say... or: "you must choose, but choose wisely, for as the real grail brings eternal life, the false grail brings death"

 

Yayy, johnnyayyy, buuut some are just more interested in caring for their problems, than looking for solutions ;-)


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#63 TheRealZap

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:44 AM

actually it would be cheaper to buy 2 jtvs and keep one at 1.9.... than to buy a 300 and do any kind of transplant... i think...

but i've never seen anyone build a transplant variax and not gold plate every detail to the point of being an expensive deal.


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#64 Junis

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:29 PM

please fixed volume of E and B strings of strat, they are much lower than the other
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#65 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:12 PM

Just turn them up (or the others down in Workbench!


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#66 wood

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 07:36 AM

then i guess 2.0 isn't for you... i have been told that after performing the workaround that hugo suggested that the strat is as intended.

the only thing they are going to fix is the need for the workaround.

that's as fixed as it's going to get... beyond that you can use workbench hd to change to your fit your own personal ideal.

 

I hope the people that work at Line 6 will take the critics serious. I just tested the strat sound again and I sounds like a Joke, not even like a real guitar.  I own 7 strats, 4 Fenders 3 Haar guitars so I know what I'm talking about. The JTV wasn't a cheap guitar so I expect a good sound out of It. To switch back to the 1.9 version isn't a option because that version also needs allot of work, the acoustic sound are very bad and the overall sounds is nog realistic. The acoustic sound in the older variax are much better. I believe you like the sound, that fine. But that doesn't mean other people must like I. Just compare a real fender (a good one, custom shop or a old one) with the variax, maybe you understand what everbody mean. 

 

(sorry my English is very bad)


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#67 TheRealZap

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 07:47 AM

they did compare it to a real strat... and the modeled sound is accurate to that strat....

i'm sure there are millions of other strats...that sound different...

 

here's details on the modeled one:

The hugely popular Fender® Stratocaster® can be heard on hits by legendary guitarists Jimi Hendrix (“Foxy Lady”), Stevie Ray Vaughan (“Pride and Joy”), Eric Clapton (“Layla”) and many others.

Based on* 1959 Fender® Stratocaster®. Considered a radical departure when introduced in 1954, the Stratocaster® influenced electric guitar design more than any other single instrument—and its distinctive comfort-contoured body, bolt-on neck and versatile electronics have become industry-standard features. Our model takes one slight liberty—unlike the modeled instrument, the tone control works on the Bridge pickup, too.

 

 

this model will not change to suit your preference...

you can either mess around with it in workbench HD, rollback to 1.9 and mess around with that in workbench if you desire, accept it, or wait and hope that one day they offer additional models or model packs... (possible... but not likely to be anytime soon...)

 

I hope the people that work at Line 6 will take the critics serious. I just tested the strat sound again and I sounds like a Joke, not even like a real guitar.  I own 7 strats, 4 Fenders 3 Haar guitars so I know what I'm talking about. The JTV wasn't a cheap guitar so I expect a good sound out of It. To switch back to the 1.9 version isn't a option because that version also needs allot of work, the acoustic sound are very bad and the overall sounds is nog realistic. The acoustic sound in the older variax are much better. I believe you like the sound, that fine. But that doesn't mean other people must like I. Just compare a real fender (a good one, custom shop or a old one) with the variax, maybe you understand what everbody mean. 

 

(sorry my English is very bad)


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#68 phil_m

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 07:56 AM

Just compare a real fender (a good one, custom shop or a old one) with the variax, maybe you understand what everbody mean. 

 

I have done this... Just did it again yesterday, and to me the Variax model is pretty much identical to my 2012 American Standard Strat with the Fat 50s pickups (which makes sense considering Line 6 modeled a 50s Strat).

 

I also have Strat Plus with Lace Sensors in it, and those are bit thicker sounding, but they also don't have quite the same bite as standard Strat pickups.


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#69 wood

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:22 AM


they did compare it to a real strat... and the modeled sound is accurate to that strat....

i'm sure there are millions of other strats...that sound different...

 

here's details on the modeled one:

The hugely popular Fender® Stratocaster® can be heard on hits by legendary guitarists Jimi Hendrix (“Foxy Lady”), Stevie Ray Vaughan (“Pride and Joy”), Eric Clapton (“Layla”) and many others.

Based on* 1959 Fender® Stratocaster®. Considered a radical departure when introduced in 1954, the Stratocaster® influenced electric guitar design more than any other single instrument—and its distinctive comfort-contoured body, bolt-on neck and versatile electronics have become industry-standard features. Our model takes one slight liberty—unlike the modeled instrument, the tone control works on the Bridge pickup, too.

 

 

this model will not change to suit your preference...

you can either mess around with it in workbench HD, rollback to 1.9 and mess around with that in workbench if you desire, accept it, or wait and hope that one day they offer additional models or model packs... (possible... but not likely to be anytime soon...)

 

Do you work at Line 6? I hope that they fix the sound very quick.  I played allot of strat and also owned allot strats. I know ever guitars sounds different. I also know that a good tone is in the fingers but the Line 6 strat doesn't sound like a normal guitar, the sound is very thin and cold. 

 

For the people who don't know what a Haar guitar is, check this 

 

Reinhold Bogner own's allot of them. 


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#70 TheRealZap

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:38 AM

I do not work for line6, But i did speak very specifically to those that worked on this model.

and again refer you to my previous words... nothing is changing on this model, except for the elimination of the need for the common knowledge workaround.


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#71 Junis

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:58 AM

yes, I already did it, but definitely there is a defect to be repaired

Just turn them up (or the others down in Workbench!


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#72 Junis

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:06 AM

I'm having a lot of difficulties to adjust the pod drives these new JTV model, I already realized that will take a long time to readjust my pod 500 , lester 1 became much treble and with much more gain and output than before


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#73 stevekc

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:20 AM

I finally have down loaded and installed The 2.0 HD update to one of my Tylers.
 Probably going to revert to 1.9.
Line6 has placed this odd ADSR Envelope on the Strat tones (always been there even on JTV Firmware 1.9) , but the new HD 2.0 Strats are just plain lifeless with no sustain - by design. something is VERY wrong when you can dial up a Mesa Dual Treadplate  Amp Patch on the HD500X and then use the new Tyler HD 2.0 Strat, yet  have zero sustain. I've heard more sustain on a Ukelele. 

 

Does anyone at line6 beta test this stuff before its released? I find it hard any company would release this and call it a "Strat"


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#74 johnnyayyy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:57 PM

actually it would be cheaper to buy 2 jtvs and keep one at 1.9.... than to buy a 300 and do any kind of transplant... i think...

but i've never seen anyone build a transplant variax and not gold plate every detail to the point of being an expensive deal.

 

Submitted for your approval: my 2 cheapo transplants:

 

The Tele is Mexican and cost me around $700 total ($300 for the Tele, $200 for the Variax donor, and $100 for the GraphTech bridge, $100 for the Bigsby setup).

 

The White Falcon is a Chinese replica, around $750 total ($300 for the "Gretsch", $250 for the Variax 500 donor, $100 for the GraphTech bridge, and $100 for the DeArmond pickups not shown in the pics).

 

My only goal when putting these together was to have all the flexibility of a Variax without anyone knowing I was playing a Variax. The guitars are junky for sure but still look miles cooler than the Variax 300 and 500 I used to build them IMO.

 

9689948404_b8ba17e0f0_c.jpg


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#75 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

Nice but the do it yourself ability helped the cost a bit. You're braver than I am.
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#76 spikey

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

Nice but the do it yourself ability helped the cost a bit. You're braver than I am.

 

I once added a Roland internal 13 pin plugin and pickup (with the guts inside too) to my first red ax 500... I used the battery compartment for the tronics. Wish I still had it too. A "pro" job if I do say so myself and turned out nice. It has nothing to do with being brave Zap... You just have to have "lots" and "lots" of time and patience and go very slow and careful...

 

FWIW I dont think that my JTV 69 in the "strat" 2 n 4 sounds cold at all. In fact Im on the side that says before the update, #2 sounded muddy...

 

And sounds better now to me.  YMMV as always... 


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#77 johnnyayyy

johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:34 PM

It has nothing to do with being brave Zap... You just have to have "lots" and "lots" of time and patience and go very slow and careful...

 

 

 

in my case I just muddled through and kept fumbling and bumbling and hacking away at it til it worked, made tons of mistakes along the way but didn't really care - I had no fear from the start as I figured if I screwed up it was no big deal, I would only be losing a few bucks and destroying some cheapo guitars that meant nothing to anyone... if I had purchased the Variaxes new and paid full price I would have been much more hesitant, but a $200-250 used Variax is just begging to be torn apart and repurposed IMO.


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