Feature request: Snapshots that don't recall block on-offs

[zooey]

Snapshots are great, but the fact that they always recall the on-off state of all blocks means you can't use one as a simple volume boost, for example.

 

If would add a lot of flexibility if there was an option in each snapshot to NOT recall any block on-off states, but only make whatever parameter changes are recorded in the snapshot. By default, it would recall block states too, but that could be disabled. The fact that snapshots can store way more parameter settings than a stomp switch makes them very powerful.

 

Since you can't freely mix snapshot and stomp footswitches, this capability would be super useful to me.

 

If you agree, please vote it up on Ideascale.

[silverhead]

Perhaps I misunderstand. Within any snapshot you can still assign stomp FS as usual to dynamically control the on/off state of any block without switching snapshots. And you can freely mix up to 4 simultaneous snapshot and stomp switches in the display. So can you not assign your volume boost FX as a stomp in every snapshot and use it as desired?

[PeterHamm]

So can you not assign your volume boost FX as a stomp in every snapshot and use it as desired?

 

First off, I would do that.

 

Second, if you leave all the blocks that activate with a footswitch OFF when you save the patch and set global:preferences:snapshot edits to "discard" I believe you may achieve what you want.

[MonkeyXT]

Exactly as above - I believe this addresses what you're after; it's exactly how I use things.

The marvellous combination of the original v1.x firmware's ability to create controller/state stomp switches, PLUS the additional enhancement of using Snapshots.

And, I always use 'discard' mode so that I can 're-set' the state of the Snapshot simply by re-stepping on that SS's footswitch.

V2.0x is a great time to be a Helix user =]

[zooey]

It's completely possible that I misunderstand some things about snapshots. I've only experimented with them a little, because I don't see how using them won't cost me a bunch of functionality I have now in 10 switches mode. I appreciate folks working this through with me.

 

First, I'm used to having 10 stomps, one of which is often a generic volume Boost. If I only get 4 stomps and 4 snapshots at hand at a time, I'd rather devote a snap switch to Boost than a stomp.

 

Second, I have a More switch in some presets, which jacks up the params of a a bunch of different blocks, giving me an alternate version of all of them, effectively almost twice as many stomps. However, stomps can't store enough params to actually do everything I'd want, and snapshots can.

 

Third, doesn't turning all blocks off in a snapshot actually store them as off, so recalling that snapshot turns them all off? Every snapshot inherently enables or disables every block, according to its state when the snap was saved, or that's my impression. That's what I'd like an option to not do.

 

 

In a sense, all of this is trying to get around the somewhat awkward navigation between snapshots and 10 switches mode, or looking for a way to use snapshots + stomps that works as well as 10 switches does for me. Are any of you using 10 switches with snapshots? What do you think of the navigation possibilities with that arrangement? Can you think of ways to improve it?

 

Even if there are good answers to that, I still think that one simple feature would give snapshots even more flexibility, and would be great to have.

[PeterHamm]

I think I see what you're getting to.

But I think it's the logical limitation of having only 10 buttons to use, honestly.

For me, I think I can do everything you are looking to do in a patch better with 10 stomps than ANY snapshots.

The only thing I'm using snapshots for, personally, is to switch the amp eq and some other things around based on which guitar I'm plugging in.

[phil_m]

It's completely possible that I misunderstand some things about snapshots. I've only experimented with them a little, because I don't see how using them won't cost me a bunch of functionality I have now in 10 switches mode. I appreciate folks working this through with me.

 

First, I'm used to having 10 stomps, one of which is often a generic volume Boost. If I only get 4 stomps and 4 snapshots at hand at a time, I'd rather devote a snap switch to Boost than a stomp.

 

Second, I have a More switch in some presets, which jacks up the params of a a bunch of different blocks, giving me an alternate version of all of them, effectively almost twice as many stomps. However, stomps can't store enough params to actually do everything I'd want, and snapshots can.

 

Third, doesn't turning all blocks off in a snapshot actually store them as off, so recalling that snapshot turns them all off? Every snapshot inherently enables or disables every block, according to its state when the snap was saved, or that's my impression. That's what I'd like an option to not do.

 

 

In a sense, all of this is trying to get around the somewhat awkward navigation between snapshots and 10 switches mode, or looking for a way to use snapshots + stomps that works as well as 10 switches does for me. Are any of you using 10 switches with snapshots? What do you think of the navigation possibilities with that arrangement? Can you think of ways to improve it?

 

Even if there are good answers to that, I still think that one simple feature would give snapshots even more flexibility, and would be great to have.

 

It actually sounds like perhaps you don't need to use snapshots... It really depends on how you want your live playing experience to be. If you just want the Helix to emulate a traditional pedalboard, more or less, 10 stomps will do that. The main feature of snapshots is being able to change a bunch of things with just one stomp. Not every playing situation requires that, though. It does take more in the way pre-planning, in a sense. Snapshots are great for switching between things that would require multiple stomps or controller changes.

 

But I think the best answer was given above. You could easily set up a boost switch that tied to a footswitch and just have that boost bypassed in all your snapshots. Than you just use when you need it. Other people have mentioned different ways of altering snapshots, and while I don't want to discourage anyone from submitting ideas, it just seems to me that is would be hard to alter the basic concept of snapshots without having it turn into something overly complex. I like them now because it's pretty easy to conceptually grasp what a snapshot is. If you start making it so there's different rules that can be applied to certain blocks and whatnot, it just seems like opening a can of worms.

[MonkeyXT]

(8-button satellite Snapshot-devoted board as a 'side-car' to the floor units, allowing 10-stomp mode plus access to all Snapshots, for those with the need/want - ?)

 

... I know; adding hardware isn't ideal... but it would address some of these things folks have brought up.

[zooey]

(8-button satellite Snapshot-devoted board as a 'side-car' to the floor units, allowing 10-stomp mode plus access to all Snapshots, for those with the need/want - ?)

How about this, tongue firmly in cheek:

• Get a second Helix, and connect the MIDI outs of each one to the MIDI ins of the other one.
• Actual patches live in the primary one.
• Recalling a patch on the primary one loads the corresponding patch on the secondary one.
• The corresponding secondary unit patches are functionally all the same -- they have only footswitches that recall the 8 snaps in the primary unit.
• The only reason to have separate patches on the secondary unit is so you can label the snapshot switches for each patch.

 

That said, I've considered using an external MIDI foot controller with Helix, for snapshot recall, just as you said. Thing is, the only ones I have are either as big as Helix (FCB1010 UNO mod, ART X-15), or limited to program changes only (ADA MC-1). And no scribble strips.

[zooey]

It actually sounds like perhaps you don't need to use snapshots... It really depends on how you want your live playing experience to be. If you just want the Helix to emulate a traditional pedalboard, more or less, 10 stomps will do that. The main feature of snapshots is being able to change a bunch of things with just one stomp.

You may well be right, but there definitely are things I do with stomps that would be better done with snapshots. For example, I often have 2-4 different overdrives in a patch, on separate switches, meaning that in most cases, switching from one to another means turning the active one off and a new one on. Snapshots could do that with one switch press.

 

I do actually use all 10 switches pretty frequently, and the limitation of only 8 snaps makes it hard to map those 10 stomps onto snaps.

 

I could see myself using 4 OD-level snaps + Boost in the bottom row, and 5 FX stomps in the top row. Blockers to that are max 8 snaps instead of 10, and the inability to make one into Boost because it has to come with block enable/disables. Fix those two things I think I could be a happy Snaplander.

 

Another thing I think I'd like is if the Mode switch could be set to cycle through Presets, Stomps, and Snapshots, instead of having to press Bank Up and Down at the same time, on the opposite side from the Mode switch.

 

I know, where do I get off wishing for more stuff barely on the eve of v2, which delivered some definitely cool stuff. But there you have it. Not clear whether I'll try snapshots without those wishes or not.

[MonkeyXT]

(Quoting isn't working for me for some reason...)

 

@zooey; cautionary tale about thinking 'out loud' I suppose.

I haven't run into such a requirement for myself, just had that thought at that moment - I suspect others have pondered using a 3rd party add-on to cover some of these bases.

But as you suggest, it wouldn't integrate or have the advantages that a L6-built extension would have.

The idea of satellites like that isn't new to me: I come from a history of having used a Rocktron/Bradshaw system to handle switching and audio routing - significant footswitch controller.

That system also affords the option of connecting up to two more of the floor controller units in order to station controllers elsewhere (stage tech, elsewhere on stage, plus the 'main' one.

 

Anyway; I was quickly envisioning a L6 extension similar to the way that Bradshaw (and the various others who have adopted his methodology) has expandable controllers.

 

... but in this case, that would add a lot to the footprint. I'm pretty sure I would just as soon continue to work with what's available on my Rack Controller as is.

 

Anyway; /thinking-'out-loud'