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James Tyler Variax Hd 2.0 Update Disappointments (not Just Spank/strat Quack Settings)

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#1 davemed

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:58 AM

I've seen others complain about the new Strat/Spank position 2 & 4 ("quack") settings being not as good in 2.0, but Line 6 responded that there will be a fix for that,  What about the Chime /  Rickenbacker settings?  I like the older ones better, these sound less authentic, both 6 and 12 string models.  Anyone else feel the same?  Line 6, is there going to be a further update/fix for that?

 


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#2 phil_m

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:15 AM

Well, everything is a matter of taste, but one thing to remember is that Line 6 is modeling specific models of the guitars in the update, and they may or may not be the same exact guitar that they modeled before. If you don't like the way a particular model sounds you have two options. You can either roll back to the previous firmware, or you can keep the current firmware and try adjusting the models to your liking with Workbench. Line 6 isn't going to be changing the base sounds of the models. If they tried to do that in order to make everyone happy, well, that would be an impossible task.


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#3 TheRealZap

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:17 AM

they will not be radically altering any of the tones... 

i've heard many others say that those specific models were greatly improved for them...

bottom line... you can't please everybody... so rather than try they specifically and accurately model the specific instrument they have, and it is what it is.

are there other ricks that sound different than the one they modeled.... surely.

is there some technical limitations to what they can do.... surely

i'm certain they'll continue trying to overcome the technical limitations and bring you the most accurate reproduction of the model they can...

outside of that i wouldn't expect any of the older models to resurface.

stay at 1.9 if it suits you better, tweak in 2.0 if you can get closer to your personal taste...

but whatever you do... i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for line6 to deliver update to the models currently released...

stranger things have happened... so its not impossible... but highly unlikely to happen quick if ever.


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#4 johnnyayyy

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:20 AM

I've seen others complain about the new Strat/Spank position 2 & 4 ("quack") settings being not as good in 2.0, but Line 6 responded that there will be a fix for that,  What about the Chime /  Rickenbacker settings?  I like the older ones better, these sound less authentic, both 6 and 12 string models.  Anyone else feel the same?  Line 6, is there going to be a further update/fix for that?

 

If your new 2.0 Rickenbacker does not sound good... what amp are you playing it through?

 

And do you have a real Rickenbacker handy to compare it to?


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#5 davemed

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

I do have a Ric 360/12C63, 620 custom, ...and had a 381V69 I sold.  Nothing sounds better than the real thing of course.   I found a workaround for both my dissapointments with strat quack and ric settings by simply using my compressor.  It also adds unwanted volume so I have to turn the volume knob on the guitar down, but thats not a biggie.  I tried messing with the settings in Workbench HD and just couldnt get it where I wanted and was afraid I was making it worse.  I must say that in this update I am extremely pleased with the updated acoustic (6 and 12 string) settings.  


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#6 offashead

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

If your new 2.0 Rickenbacker does not sound good... what amp are you playing it through?

 

And do you have a real Rickenbacker handy to compare it to?

Very good point. The fact is I have never played a Ric, I have heard them on records and live, I want one but it ain't gonna happen. I now have one and I like it. I have never played any of these models for instance a 1959 Les Paul, I probably never will, but the Les Paul models in the the update and indeed before sound like Les Pauls, I have a 1990 standard and the Variax is close, I have recorded both and my mate doesnt know which one is which. As for the Ric whatever year the Ric is, you are going to be very hard pushed to compare unless you go and spend a lot of money buying one, even a newish one. And, I have a nice 1980's MIJ Strat and that new version sounds very close to my Strat, which really threw me in a very good way. I can now sell it :o

 

 Edit ::: Posted after the OP replied saying he had a Ric.


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#7 dkemusic

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:47 AM

I think the v2.0 version is a lot better than v1.x.  If the octave sounds on the E & A string weren't so poor the Variax would finally have a very good Ric 12 string model, as is too me it's passable for solo work and pretty decent for rhythm.  The Acoustic 12 strings I think sound very close to a real 12 string.

 

Dan


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#8 davemed

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:29 AM

I'm fairly impressed with the mags it comes with.  I've played more expensive guitars that dont sound nearly as good.  Ive been going thru pickups on my Explorer and having a terrible time of picking ones that truly make me happy, but Im sticking with the Duncan I just put in with a coil tap.  Was thinking about putting that paid (Pearly Gates and 59) in the Tyler Variax but now I have it in the Explorer and the Variax many friends have said, "Ive never though I'd like a LIne 6 guitar but Jeez that sounds good and the magnetic pickups are really great" so Im just gonna stick with them.  Still not thrilled at all with the Ric models, and wish there was better (more quack) Strat 2 & 4 position tone models (I liked the previous version better for those 2, as well as the RIcs).  But the acoustic is better and I use it a lot on those setting so newer update will have to stay.  And yes, a classical/nylon string acoustic model would be cool, more useful than some of the other settings.  I never really use or liked in either 1.9 or 2.0 the Jazzbox or Semi settings, it just cant come close to get that full sound of a real one.  I do like many of the other settings.  Wish I knew how to play banjo or sitar, I

gotta work on that.


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#9 alsithi

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:59 PM

Number one: not being able to plug my guitar into the PC through my HD500. What is the point of customizing guitar settings when I can't play them through my Pod?

 

Number two: I did the update, then turned up to my next gig and found my sound was tinny, pathetic and lacking sustain. Admittedly the acoustic patches were clearer, but everything else was bright with no balls....


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#10 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:03 PM

number 1: you can do this, just run the 1/4" into your pod... (although they will fix this)

number 2: wtf were you thinking turning up at a gig with an untested update? of course you'd have to tweak etc... you brought that one on yourself though.

 

 

Number one: not being able to plug my guitar into the PC through my HD500. What is the point of customizing guitar settings when I can't play them through my Pod?

 

Number two: I did the update, then turned up to my next gig and found my sound was tinny, pathetic and lacking sustain. Admittedly the acoustic patches were clearer, but everything else was bright with no balls....


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#11 alsithi

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:23 PM

number 1: you can do this, just run the 1/4" into your pod... (although they will fix this)

number 2: wtf were you thinking turning up at a gig with an untested update? of course you'd have to tweak etc... you brought that one on yourself though.

Hi TheRealZap

 

Sorry but why didn't they fix these issues BEFORE releasing the update? (usb limitation, spank quack settings and who knows what else that they obviously already knew about)

 

As regards the guitar models, the Lester ones have hardly been improved that much if the sustain has disappeared. I hadn't needed to tweak the sounds before so why should I need to now? The only customisation I had made before was to put 5 of my standard guitars into one place for ease of access in a live situation.

 

The JTV is fantastic but what I really want is the output options for my HD500 sorted, though presumably that isn't going to happen now.

 

Finally I find it disappointing that as a representative of Line6 you feel it appropriate to insult customers when they dare to make comments not necessarily praising their efforts. This is supposed to be a forum for expresing opinions and exchanging information.

 

Thank you

John


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#12 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:31 PM

i'm not insulting you... and i'm also not employed by line6...

i'm saying you basically took a guitar that you'd never played before to a gig... and that's not the guitars fault.

and that is my opinion i'm expressing right next to yours... so we can assume the forum works. :D


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#13 alsithi

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:51 PM

I have on many occasions gigged with an unknown guitar, but I wasn't expecting to do that last saturday....lol....in fact some of my best performances have been off-the-cuff using someone else's instrument!

 

However I do think Line6 have been rather premature releasing this update for the reasons already suggested and expect I am not the only user who wishes they hadn't bothered.....not yet anyway.


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#14 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:03 PM

In my experience, many bugs don't get found until lots of people get to try the new SW.  If you were on this forum, you know that many were asking for the new 2.0 release every day.  The limitations of this release are very manageable.  If we waited until the new WB worked with pods, we would still be waiting.  I am sure that Line6 will fix the bugs - they have in the past.  It's up to us the users to tweak on the models to get the best tone we can based on what we are looking for.  Everyone has an opinion and some love the new models and some don't.  Nobody is forcing anyone to take the "Free" FW upgrade and "Free" workbench.


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#15 Mr_Arkadin

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 02:04 PM

I have on many occasions gigged with an unknown guitar, but I wasn't expecting to do that last saturday....lol....in fact some of my best performances have been off-the-cuff using someone else's instrument!

 

 

 

You can't really compare using someone else's Tele when you're used to an LP (for example) to updating a piece of technology.

 

Would you update your DAW the day before you had a big recording session, or even your POD HD? For instance your tinny sound may be the result of an incorrect flash (some have had to do it a few times for it to 'take'), or it may be that you need to adjust the HD500 patches, or any number of factors. You should give yourself a clear period before doing such things and with any new software there may also be user error as things behave differently.


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#16 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

dude chill out...

i don't have to alert them to anything i do that to help people out...

i'm not going to alert them to every difference of opinion.

i didn't select a title or anything... i was just a new guy once and asked alot of questions...

stuck around shared what i had learned from everyone here... that's it.

no secret... no super better than everyone ego type musician...

with 40 years of experience you undoubtedly put my music abilities to shame...

happy? now stop trying to make it personal.

 

The misconseption is further fueled by the fact that on more than one occassion you have told us Line 6 won't do anything unless you "EXPERTS" let them know that there is a problem that YOU alert them too. Then you hang the Line 6 Company logo on your tag and then call yourself, and I quote "AN UBER GURU". Did Line 6 give you that title or is it self awarded? I agree with Alsithi about your aloof attitude and condesending statements. Maybe you should back off a little a give someone else a little credit. I.ve been playing for almost 40 years

but just because i'm new to the Line 6 community and don't have everything they make hooked into my rig doesn't make me any less of a musician than you. Line 6 itself does look at and read these sites. PSarkissian is the US tech and has replied personally to several on this forum site.


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#17 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

I do know what i'm talking about.

all experts have to sign a NDA (non disclosure agreement)

and from time to time we also participate in betas as well as have direct contact with the product managers.

when i don't know something I ask.... often times they will tell me more than i'm able to share (NDA)

i don't make decisions.... but i don't make stuff up either...

if i say i know something, then i do...

if i hint at knowing something, then i MAY know something and not be able to say.

contrary to what you may think... i probably do have some idea of what line6 may or may not do... 

they certainly don't tell me everything... and certainly don't want me talking about lots of things they do tell me....

lovingly signed,

the helpful yet pompous lollipop.

 

 

Then you NEED to stop answering questions with a diffinitive answer that makes it sound to all of us like your in the desicision making loop at Line 6. You've made statements more than once saying what they would

and wouldn't be doing....Where are you coming up with this?

I don't think you know what Line 6 might do any more than the rest of us do.

Be more of a FELLOW musician than a know it all expert and we won't think yer a pompous lollipop....Deal?


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#18 toasterdude

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:04 PM

One thing I learned this week. . .L6 forums change @ss to lolipop. . .


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#19 johnnyayyy

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:11 PM

One thing I learned this week. . .L6 forums change @ss to lolipop. . .

 

Well that sucks lollipop...


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#20 ozbadman

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

Chuckle, just so you know the Expert tag is assigned by Line 6. The UberGuru title occurs automatically to anyone who gets assigned the Expert tag. It is given to a select number of users/customers who have spent a lot of time on these forums helping people out and are deeply knowledgeable about the products. They often get asked to be Beta testers and have inside access to Line 6 information and employees, hence the NDAs. But, at the end of the day, they are mostly users like the rest of us. They are providing whatever help they do for free. They are also human. They have good and bad days like the rest of us.

 

Was Zap's initial response a touch aggressive? In my opinion, probably. But the follow on responses from others have been much more so, probably due to the "expert tag" curse. The fact is, the experts do have better access to information than the average user, and they don't have to pass any of that information on to us. I'm glad that we have at least some information coming to us from them so that we get an idea of where Line 6 is heading. Now, you might not like the answer, but it's better to at least know that the models are likely to stay as they are now for the foreseeable future (barring obvious bugfixes of course)

 

So the way I see it, we can harangue them in these forums, at which point they'll respond like a human and stop passing on information to us. If we see something aggressive, we can ask them politely to back off, or we can retaliate and ramp up the war of words.


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#21 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

yes, 3 negative posts personally attacking me resulted in me voting them negative...

 

Then you go online and give me 3 negitive votes for my opinion????? NOBODY DOES THAT....Now we know you..


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#22 johnnyayyy

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:17 PM

Then you go online and give me 3 negitive votes for my opinion????? NOBODY DOES THAT....Now we know you..


Oh well, he admits he gave you the negatives... the negative/positive vote thing is there for a reason, you have the right to use it as much as anyone... I empathize with the problems you are having with your guitar but really you should try to get along here or move on. You might notice Zap has more than 6000 POSITIVE votes here, many from people he has helped over the years. He really is a L6 EXPERT, and he really does know things the rest of us don't, and nearly all of what he posts here is good info or helpful in some way. He is also entitled to his opinion (IMO :lol: ) as are you, but... maybe try to keep it civil...


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#23 TheRealZap

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:18 PM

thanks for that...

anyone is also welcome to PM me here if they have an issue with my posts.

 

Chuckle, just so you know the Expert tag is assgined by Line 6. It is given to a select number of users/customers who have spent a lot of time on these forums helping people out and are deeply knowledgeable about the products. They often get asked to be Beta testers and have inside access to Line 6 information and employees, hence the NDAs. But, at the end of the day, they are mostly users like the rest of us. They are providing whatever help they do for free. They are also human. They have good and bad days like the rest of us.

 

Was Zap's initial response a touch aggressive? In my opinion, probably. But the follow on responses from others have been much more so, probably due to the "expert tag" curse. The fact is, the experts do have better access to information than the average user, and they don't have to pass any of that information on to us. I'm glad that we have at least some information coming to us from them so that we get an idea of where Line 6 is heading. Now, you might not like the answer, but it's better to at least know that the models are likely to stay as they are now for the foreseeable future (barring obvious bugfixes of course)

 

So the way I see it, we can harangue them in these forums, at which point they'll respond like a human and stop passing on information to us. If we see something aggressive, we can ask them politely to back off, or we can retaliate and ramp up the war of words.


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#24 johnnyayyy

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:39 PM

See ya later johnnyayy, Ill try to behave if I come back on the forum.

 

Okay, best wishes in whatever you choose to do.


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#25 brue58ski

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:31 PM


Don't be so hard on old Zap.  I'll admit the

 

"wtf were you thinking turning up at a gig with an untested update? of course you'd have to tweak etc... you brought that one on yourself though."

 

was a bit insulting but Zap's generally a good guy and may have just gotten a little overzealous. In regard to his comments on what Line 6 will do, I haven't seen anything he said that wasn't true. I've been a Line 6 boy for awhile too so his comments are just based on what they've done in the past. One big point is they aren't going to radically change the models anytime soon. They'll fix the bugs (the spank 2-4 position problem for example and has been acknowledged)but, based on the past, if you were able to properly download the update (I know there have been a few issues, most not the fault of the JTV owner) these are the models we're stuck with for awhile.  So if you don't like them better than 1.9 then, you'll have to go back. Personally, overall, I am pleased.


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#26 alsithi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:08 AM

I don't want to add fuel to the (dwindling) fire but.....

 

Given that the title of this thread refers to 'update disappointments' I consider the response to my comments from the 'experts' to be inappropriate and patronising to say the least when I was merely pointing out unexpected issues with the update I applied.

 

I've been playing guitar in bands for 36 years so I am not going to be lectured on how I should prepare for gigs. You may be experts in your field but so am I in mine.

 

I am a Line 6 customer and expect a more measured response from their representatives (employed or not these guys carry the Line6 logo below their avatar) and the evident opinion that if something is not right it must be the customer's fault is not acceptable.


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#27 TheRealZap

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:18 AM

feel free not to like my opinion, or perhaps the way i've expressed it... Line6 does not control my opinion, and i do try to be mindful of how it's expressed.

 

despite my perhaps poor expression of that opinion...

i stand by the sentiment that you made no preparation for the change in guitar tone, that you initiated by updating...

yet somehow still see fit to blame the instrument or the update....

 

not to bring religion into it at all... but to quote a famous guitar player: "even god needs to soundcheck"

 

perhaps the update is not for you... that's a subjective question that only you can answer...

but it's also equally as possible that perhaps with a little time and care, you could dial in a tone that works for you with the update.

 

my opinion is my own... and if you think that the customer is never wrong, and can never be at fault... then well i'm going to accept that as your opinion even though i disagree.


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#28 Bobbyl

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:49 AM

For the record, this is the first variax update since I bought a 500 that drastically changed the tone of the models I use in a way that I would have a problem doing a gig without preparation.

i stand by the sentiment that you made no preparation for the change in guitar tone, that you initiated by updating...

yet somehow still see fit to blame the instrument or the update....


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#29 TheRealZap

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:55 AM

yeah it's certainly the biggest most drastic upgrade to the variax ever...

which is my point....

but i do see your point as well, perhaps you didn't expect the upgrade to be so different?

all i'm saying is that i would have tried it without an audience first...

i don't really understand why that opinion is so offensive to anyone... or why anyone wouldn't think to do so.

again.. not out to offend... but alsithi put himself in that position.

 

For the record, this is the first variax update since I bought a 500 that drastically changed the tone of the models I use in a way that I would have a problem doing a gig without preparation.


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#30 alsithi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:33 AM

Well this is the 6th flash update so far isn't it? I don't recall how many of them I had already installed but for sure this was the first one that drastically altered the tone- at least in my experience anyway.

 

Maybe you misunderstand my comment about turning up to the next gig- obviously I played the guitar when I updated it, it was in my hand at the time, hooked up through my HD500, but not at stage volume. I can understand if you believed I flashed the memory without checking it had worked, but that is not what I said.

 

Because of the usb issue I didn't have time to find the interface so I could gen up on the new workbench and restore my custom settings ( for ease of use I have the neck and bridge LP, Strat 4th position, electric 12 string and Peter Green's LP in a single bank ) but my Pod is programmed to switch guitars according to the patch I select. (the custom bank is just to give easy access to alternatives regardless of the patch I'm using eg Pink Floyd stuff where I've programmed a strat but sometimes switch to a LP during solos for that bit of extra sustain)

 

Make no mistake, forwards is the only direction I am interested in...otherwise I may as well go back to my Ibanez which is lighter and much easier to play but doesn't have the versatility obviously...so 2.0 is staying- at least until 2.x comes out...lol


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#31 silverhead

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:50 AM

..

 

Because of the usb issue I didn't have time to find the interface so I could gen up on the new workbench and restore my custom settings ( for ease of use I have the neck and bridge LP, Strat 4th position, electric 12 string and Peter Green's LP in a single bank ) ..

Note that Variax models created in pre-HD firmware/Workbench are not compatible with the new HD firmware/Workbench. Your previous custom models will need to be recreated in Workbench HD.


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
.... John Lennon

 

 


#32 alsithi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:52 AM

Note that Variax models created in pre-HD firmware/Workbench are not compatible with the new HD firmware/Workbench. Your previous custom models will need to be recreated in Workbench HD.

Yes I read that. The Peter Green one is the only custom guitar, the rest are standard models.


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#33 TheRealZap

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:03 AM

Sorry to have misunderstood you, it sounded like you were surprised at the gig.

good luck, and keep rocking.

 

Well this is the 6th flash update so far isn't it? I don't recall how many of them I had already installed but for sure this was the first one that drastically altered the tone- at least in my experience anyway.

 

Maybe you misunderstand my comment about turning up to the next gig- obviously I played the guitar when I updated it, it was in my hand at the time, hooked up through my HD500, but not at stage volume. I can understand if you believed I flashed the memory without checking it had worked, but that is not what I said.

 

Because of the usb issue I didn't have time to find the interface so I could gen up on the new workbench and restore my custom settings ( for ease of use I have the neck and bridge LP, Strat 4th position, electric 12 string and Peter Green's LP in a single bank ) but my Pod is programmed to switch guitars according to the patch I select. (the custom bank is just to give easy access to alternatives regardless of the patch I'm using eg Pink Floyd stuff where I've programmed a strat but sometimes switch to a LP during solos for that bit of extra sustain)

 

Make no mistake, forwards is the only direction I am interested in...otherwise I may as well go back to my Ibanez which is lighter and much easier to play but doesn't have the versatility obviously...so 2.0 is staying- at least until 2.x comes out...lol


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#34 fr0sty

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:56 AM

How did you create his guitar/wiring in workbench?

 

Yes I read that. The Peter Green one is the only custom guitar, the rest are standard models.


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#35 ozbadman

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:44 PM

How did you create his guitar/wiring in workbench?

 

Hopefully alsithi will answer, but there's an interesting article here on Peter Green's tone:

 

http://www.premiergu...ter_Greens_Tone

 

The net result of which is to get the tone I think you're talking about, as a starting point use a Les Paul with Neck and Bridge in parallel, but out-of-phase. In Workbench, this equates to Neck and Bridge on with polarity reversed.


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#36 alsithi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:08 PM

I can't take any credit for the patch- 'Peter Green Burst' - this was created by a guy called Scott Jennings and I found it somewhere on the internet.

 

As suggested it is 'based on a '59 les paul with both pickups active @ 100%, out of phase'

 

It does work very well! I actually use it for ZZ Top stuff, and occasionally in other songs to spice up a solo section when the mood takes me....


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#37 mcdermike

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:59 AM

I purchased a James Tyler Variax recently after trying it out in the shop and being impressed, particularly with the Strat sounds. Got home and upgraded everything to HD version 2. Great acoustic sounds, good 12 string and dobo. Then I tried the strat  out,  2 and 4 position. Oh dear, not only a volume drop but thin sounds. in my humble opinion totally dead. I tried all the suggested changes on this forum, compressor, downloading patches, blending in the magnetic pickups,  still no joy. I then began to realise that almost all the electric sounds were to my ears very weak. There was definitely a volume drop from the magnetic pickups on most electric sounds as well . I began to think I would keep my 59 JTV for magnetic pickups and acoustic sounds, after all a great combination. One more thing to try, roll it back and see if it is just my imagination. Well not to my ears it is not. Back came all those good electric sounds and no volume drop, or thin sound. The acoustic sounds are not as good, but I now have the whole guitar working  almost the way I want. It is a shame I cannot have 1.9 for electric and 200 for acoustic.

 

I fully appreciate that 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder', so I am not writing this as a complaint, more an observation


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#38 Bobbyl

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 03:41 PM

When I buy another 69 for backup I'm gonna roll back to 1.9 unless they come up with a model pack type thing where they re-model the same strat and 335 that they used for 1.9. I can't believe they used the same guitars to model for HD. Completely different characteristics.

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#39 zaphodboy

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:01 AM

 

When I buy another 69 for backup I'm gonna roll back to 1.9 unless they come up with a model pack type thing where they re-model the same strat and 335 that they used for 1.9. I can't believe they used the same guitars to model for HD. Completely different characteristics.

This is the first post I have seen talking about the 335 (semi) mod. Especially in position one the v2 update is unrecognisable as the same guitar. Has anyone else noticed the same problem? Overall I have found the update poor so will be rolling it back.


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#40 TheRealZap

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:38 AM

it's not the same guitar.... at all... that position has a hollowbody P90 model rather than buckers... or vice versa... forget... but either way very different.

 

This is the first post I have seen talking about the 335 (semi) mod. Especially in position one the v2 update is unrecognisable as the same guitar. Has anyone else noticed the same problem? Overall I have found the update poor so will be rolling it back.


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