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James Tyler Variax Hd 2.0 Update Disappointments (not Just Spank/strat Quack Settings)

chime rickenbacker strat spank hd update tyler jtv

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#41 zaphodboy

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:18 AM

it's not the same guitar.... at all... that position has a hollowbody P90 model rather than buckers... or vice versa... forget... but either way very different.

Ah...that explains it. Thanks for the info, I'll get tweaking!!


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#42 wankieguitar

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:45 PM

Regarding the JTV strat and ric disappointments:
 
I have encountered the strat pickup switching trouble and have corrected it HOWEVER
 I have a variax 300 and a variax 700. Both sound far, far better in the strat and ric tones. Disgustingly better.
I can't fathom how Line6 calls this an upgrade over the old sounds.
My JTV Strats have practically no 'quack' at all. And yes, I have spent lots of time on all three guitars customizing the tone.
 
I also don't find the acoustics quite as strident as on the old variax guitars.
I play the acoustics thru their own clean channel on a mixing board.
 
Has anyone else noticed the sad difference I've encountered?
 
This is my first ever post to any board so I apologize if I've gone astray here.


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#43 cruisinon2

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:08 PM


Regarding the JTV strat and ric disappointments:

I have encountered the strat pickup switching trouble and have corrected it HOWEVER
I have a variax 300 and a variax 700. Both sound far, far better in the strat and ric tones. Disgustingly better.
I can't fathom how Line6 calls this an upgrade over the old sounds.
My JTV Strats have practically no 'quack' at all. And yes, I have spent lots of time on all three guitars customizing the tone.

I also don't find the acoustics quite as strident as on the old variax guitars.
I play the acoustics thru their own clean channel on a mixing board.

Has anyone else noticed the sad difference I've encountered?

This is my first ever post to any board so I apologize if I've gone astray here.


Near as I can tell it's a 50/50 love -hate relationship wih the JTVs. Many guys who've had the older Variax guitars have gripes, and don't seem to like the newer guitars. Personally, I have nothing to compare the JTV to...I have found that this instrument has some quirks, and a few things needed getting used to in terms of pick attack, etc, especially for the acoustic models. But I like the strat tones on 2.0...some do, some don't. Very subjective and probably always will be.
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#44 arislaf

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:55 PM

Strat, rick, and position 4 of gibson...AND ACOUSTICS... Those are the guitars I enjoy most at the previous VARIAX...On the new, the tele, L.P., semi, jazzbox, firebird, and reso are awesome.Lucky I have a jtv with 2.0 and a 700 with the old and nice stuff.


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#45 wankieguitar

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:41 PM

Today I rolled the JTV59 firmware back to 1.9 and instantly the strat sounds were great.

I now have to use the older edit software which isn't pretty but it works. (The new HD edit only works with the v2.0 firmware).

 

I didn't notice a huge change in the acoustics.

 

I've taken screen shots of the strat, ric 12's and acoustic 12's with firmware 1.9 to use in the event that I retry firmware 2.0 with a better result.

Then I can affirm to myself that there are no variables involved other that the firmware itself.

 

As I can't leave well enough alone, I will probably retry firmware 2.0 later in the week. If the strats work out then I'll be happy, and if not  I'll roll back to 1.9 again and be almost as happy.

 

 

Also I have (so far at least) got an effective treatment for the problem of the model selector malfunction.

The method of stuffing something into the knob to prevent depressing the knob doesn't address the real problem which is that the frame of the model selector pot is mounted on the underside of the guitar's top using splined hardware pressed up into the wood of the top.

This hardware looks just like a very minature version of the inserts that are pressed into the top face of a Les Paul to allow raising or lowering the bridge.

 

With repeated depression of the selector knob, these small splined fittngs gradually get pushed out of the wood and into the body cavity.

I reset the fittings in the cavity and then used a liberal amount of epoxy to hold the whole thing in place.

The design seems poorly thought out or insufficiently tested.

I know if I ever have to replace the control, I'm going to have extra trouble getting the epoxy off but for now the repair is flawless.


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#46 arislaf

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:04 AM

Today I rolled the JTV59 firmware back to 1.9 and instantly the strat sounds were great.

I now have to use the older edit software which isn't pretty but it works. (The new HD edit only works with the v2.0 firmware).

 

I didn't notice a huge change in the acoustics.

 

 

 

The acoustics are different if you go to the first version, 1.71 (I think). Those are the acoustics we love <3


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#47 edstar1960

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:02 AM

The acoustics are different if you go to the first version, 1.71 (I think). Those are the acoustics we love <3

 

Correct - the 1.71 versions were replaced with the HD acoustics with the 1.8x release.  They are the same as the ones in the 2.0 release but remember with 2.0 you are also getting different processing software to go along with a complete new set of HD models and the new Workbench HD, and that different processing code may mean the 1.9 and 2.0 acoustic sounds are rendered with a very subtle difference but the underlying models are the same.  If you want pre-HD acoustics, you are correct in stating 1.71 is the firmware needed, and the models in that release match the models in the Variax v700 and other first gen Variaxes.


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#48 cruisinon2

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:39 AM

Correct - the 1.71 versions were replaced with the HD acoustics with the 1.8x release.  They are the same as the ones in the 2.0 release but remember with 2.0 you are also getting different processing software to go along with a complete new set of HD models and the new Workbench HD, and that different processing code may mean the 1.9 and 2.0 acoustic sounds are rendered with a very subtle difference but the underlying models are the same.  If you want pre-HD acoustics, you are correct in stating 1.71 is the firmware needed, and the models in that release match the models in the Variax v700 and other first gen Variaxes.

 

Something does seem different with the acoustics. I've gone back and forth between 1.9 and 2.0 a few times now, and they never sound the same through the 500X patches I have after the switch...then again, I also mucked around with the string volumes whilst experimenting, so that may account for it, I suppose.


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#49 edstar1960

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:45 AM

Something does seem different with the acoustics. I've gone back and forth between 1.9 and 2.0 a few times now, and they never sound the same through the 500X patches I have after the switch...then again, I also mucked around with the string volumes whilst experimenting, so that may account for it, I suppose.

 

Yes - it is because the 1.9 code is different to the 2.0 code - so they process the same models differently.  End result the acoustics will sound slightly different between the two releases even though they are using identical model data.  You are noticing the difference but others may not.


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#50 guilhordas

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:53 AM

I'm on 2.0 since it released the update, I had gotten used to, but as I had problems in my usb interface and I could no longer use the hd workbench had to roll back to 1.9, what a surprise, I liked it much more 1.9. More balanced, less volume difference between models (I understand that in real life this is normal, but a lot of work on jtv) strato sound good, my jazztones sounds and semi back, which I loved, only to miss the tele humbuckings, but I intend to stay at 1.9

 

but unfortunately, bad news, I found out yesterday that the old workbench not working the pod hd 500x, and as my interface broke, I can not use WB


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Jtv 69 , pod hd 500, suhr S3,prs custom 22, Gibson SG standard 96, fender plus strat 93


#51 livepoor

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

I'm not happy with the variax 2.0 firmware update either.  I tried flashing it twice, and each time afterward, playing through the models, they sound thin and screechy.  When I roll back the firmware to 1.9, they're round and balanced again.  With 2.0 installed, I tried adjusting EQ, going into patches to start from scratch, but nothing helped significantly.  I just want the models to sound good on their own, without any amps/effects, but even starting with no amp or effects, the models sound nasty.  I went into workbench to try to make adjustments because the string volumes sound off as well (strings 4,5,6 are louder than 1,2,3).  I'm playing through a POD and L2T like I always have, and they sound bad through that, and through headphones.  I've tried adjusting the output settings from studio, to the combo options.  Any suggestions other than reflashing the firmware again?  Did anyone have luck on the 3rd/4th time?  


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#52 edstar1960

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:33 AM

I'm not happy with the variax 2.0 firmware update either.  I tried flashing it twice, and each time afterward, playing through the models, they sound thin and screechy.  When I roll back the firmware to 1.9, they're round and balanced again.  With 2.0 installed, I tried adjusting EQ, going into patches to start from scratch, but nothing helped significantly.  I just want the models to sound good on their own, without any amps/effects, but even starting with no amp or effects, the models sound nasty.  I went into workbench to try to make adjustments because the string volumes sound off as well (strings 4,5,6 are louder than 1,2,3).  I'm playing through a POD and L2T like I always have, and they sound bad through that, and through headphones.  I've tried adjusting the output settings from studio, to the combo options.  Any suggestions other than reflashing the firmware again?  Did anyone have luck on the 3rd/4th time?  

 

I had to reflash about 3 or 4 times before I had firmware 2.0 sounds that I felt were similar to what others had experienced and demo'd.  Unfortunately I hit another problem where my HD500 would make a popping sound whenever I changed to a patch that also forced a model change on the guitar, so rather than tweak the v2.0 sounds to see if I could get where I wanted to be, I simply rolled back to v1.9.  The popping sound went away and I was back with models that I did not need to tweak.   I will try v2.0 again at some point - in fact I may be forced into doing it quite soon because L6 support want me to give them an audio of the popping noise even though several other people have reported exactly the same issue, so I think it can be recreated fairly easily, but it seems that for L6 support everything is working perfectly so they need some evidence. 

 

If you can spare the time, I would recommend that you try the reflash a few more times.  If you perform it via the POD then it should work better and more consistently that without - but it certainly seems to behave differently after a few attempts.   If you still get nowhere after several re-installs or still do not hear any more potential in the new models, then roll back to v1.9 if you prefer those models.   The choice is yours.


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#53 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:04 PM

I would really love to hear an explanation from Line6 or anyone that knows - why re-flashing more than once makes a difference.  I work on embedded FW and I have never worked on a product that did not either work or not work when it came to reflashing.  The re-flash process should be covered by error checking that would not allow the process to complete if any errors were encountered.  Every post here says try re-flashing when somebody has a problem.  Makes zero sense to me.


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#54 edstar1960

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:22 PM

I would really love to hear an explanation from Line6 or anyone that knows - why re-flashing more than once makes a difference.  I work on embedded FW and I have never worked on a product that did not either work or not work when it came to reflashing.  The re-flash process should be covered by error checking that would not allow the process to complete if any errors were encountered.  Every post here says try re-flashing when somebody has a problem.  Makes zero sense to me.


It makes zero sense to me too, but I have first hand experience that it did make a difference. Crazy, I know. It should make no difference whatsoever, but, I have experienced different results with the same flash version install, particularly with v2.0. :s
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#55 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:34 PM

I have heard this but it just doesn't make sense to me. 


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#56 TheRealZap

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:52 PM

the nearest i can equate it to is a midi sysex update.... 

i've had to do these types of flashes multiple times as well...

only a guess on my part...


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#57 livepoor

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:08 AM

Edstar, thanks.  You've convinced me to re-run the firmware update again and again if necessary.  Somehow having an explanation about why this is needed would make me feel better about doing, but just the fact that several people have had success on the 3rd or 4th time is enough to give me hope it'll actually work.  When it didn't work the first time, I quickly rolled back to make sure I could get all my old tones back.  After the 2nd time I thought maybe it was some settings adjustment (but everything sounded bad even straight through to my L2T without the POD).  The Variax has so much capability and versatility, I tend to be forgiving of the technical weirdness.  I work in the tech field and have never hear nor seen anything like this with regard to firmware (a partial FW update?  It's just not a thing).


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#58 favance

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

So, I too was having problems w/the sound of the Strat using HD 2.0.  After working on this issue for quite some time w/the HD Editor, I could not get position 2 of the strat to stick (in other words, I could get it to sound decent, but when I unplugged from Workbench, no dice).  So, on a hunch, I moved the Neck Pickup on the strat directly over the top of the bridge pickup, set the position and slant the same...also set it to the Strat Bridge pickup.  Finally, I unselected the original bridge pickup and enabled the neck pickup (now in the bridge position).  Low and behold, it now sticks and sounds like my 2007 Strat Deluxe on position #2.  Also, I boosted the middle pickup and lowed the volume of the lower four strings to around 50%...also raised the volume level to 5.0.  Hope this helps others!


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#59 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:27 AM

This problem has been there and was well documented from day one of Workbench HD.  No excuse for not having a fixed version of WB by now but there is that simple work around for it.  The much bigger issue is no Pod support.


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