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Variax Vs. Axe Fx Pitch Shift?


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#41 stevekc

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 07:43 AM

regardless -

not trying to throw a turd in the punchbowl, but just informing that in regards to tools for guitarists, its worth trying a Boss GP-10 and discover the lowest latency DSP Alt Tuning, and Guitar modeling in 2014   


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#42 clay-man

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:08 PM

regardless -

not trying to throw a turd in the punchbowl, but just informing that in regards to tools for guitarists, its worth trying a Boss GP-10 and discover the lowest latency DSP Alt Tuning, and Guitar modeling in 2014   

 

It just sounds like you're kinda advertising. 

 

The problem with BOSS is that, despite if they released the latest product, a majority of their products sounds insanely outdated.

 

I've heard a demo of the GP-10. The guitar modeling isn't too bad, but it's not out of this world. The amp modeling and distortion is shameless and synthetic sounding as always (thank you Boss for being stubborn when it comes to innovating new techniques for making amp modeling sound good when there's clearly the technology there at your disposal to make it sound better)

 

I will admit that I really like the string bending feature, and some of the other features that you can only do on a hex pickup.

I really wish the Variax could do some of that with the POD.

 

Regardless, I can live without those and prefer the stellar modeling on a Variax opposed to the Roland stuff.


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#43 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 01:58 PM

One somewhat tangential point to all of this, is that the JTV pitch shifting is done internally (in the guitar) on a per-string instance; so to compare that with the Boss GP-10, you are also factoring in the use of an external unit, the GP10 and a 13 pin Roland GK-compatible pickup, if I am understanding this properly?

 

The footprint on the GP-10 sure looks nice and compact! 

 

When you look at it that way; and in terms of cost, for example Sweetwater sells the GP-10 + the GK-3 pickup kit for $500.

 

GP-10 + GK-3 (sweetwater)

 

So, it's alot less than an Axe-FX, and assuming you already have an electric guitar which that pickup kit can be mounted on, a lot less $$ than a JTV.

 

SO it goes, at least it's nice to know the world of music gear keeps getting more diverse and expanding options!

Are there any other retro install pickup systems that will work with this rig? IE, will the Graphtech Ghost bridge or something like it function like this, or am I mixing apples and macs again?


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#44 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 02:16 PM

And, for what it's worth - if anyone is doubting the quality of BOSS / Roland gear, there is always the ever amazing Glenn DeLaune (http://line6.com/sup...50-gangsterusa/) doing those awesome YouTube product demo videos!

 

"Glenn DeLaune

 
"Yes I love the JTV69. Actually I installed the GK-3 pick-up onto the Variax LOL. So now I've got both modelers going at the same time. The only thing the Variax models are better are for the reso models like Banjo, Sitar, Resonators etc. Boss has better acoustic and electric guitar modeling in my opinion. Heck the variax doesn't even do nylon string where the GP-10 has a beautiful nylon model."

 


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#45 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 02:42 PM

One more..

 


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#46 jandrio

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 02:53 AM

pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling...


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#47 clay-man

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:57 AM

pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling...

 

No. I'm sure all other modelers using convolution just like the JTV. Sampling would make it a guitar SYNTH not a guitar MODELER. 

 

That doesn't mean they all sound the same or accurate. I've made the following point many times:

JTV uses piezos. Piezos have a bigger an flatter frequency range than magnetic pickups. This allows for more accurate modeling.

 

It also depends on what techniques they're using to make the impulse response.

 

The whole thing people want or at least complain about out of a modeling guitar is how real and accurate they sound, so why get something that sounds inaccurate? As far as I'm concerned, the JTV is the most accurate, in my opinion. No DSP horsepower is going to change that if they don't PROGRAM it correctly. 

 

Once again, I will admit, I like the string bending features and other features that the BOSS product has, but I want something that sounds nice, and I can live without those features.

All I need is the ability to change the guitar I'm modeling, and to change the tuning, and I'm a happy guy.

 

Besides, WORKBENCH! :)


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#48 jandrio

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:51 AM

quoting from:

http://www.bossus.co...ProductId=1319#

 

Instrument modeling powered by COSM technology


http://www.roland.co...n/exp/COSM.html

COSM: Composite Object Sound Modeling
Once a musical instrument generates sound vibrations, it reaches the human ear through various mediating, objects, each of which significantly affects the sound. The material and configuration of the instrument, the electric/magnetic amplifying system, the air and the reverberation of the room all affect the final sound. Sound modeling, the latest DSP technology, "virtually" reconstructs these objects. Roland's breakthrough Composite Object Sound Modeling (COSM) uses the advantages of multiple modeling methods and succeeds in accurately emulating existing sounds, as well as producing sounds that have never before been created.


so it seems that only the jtv does true hardware modelling, all others use synth-like technology...


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#49 clay-man

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:24 PM

quoting from:

 

http://www.bossus.co...ProductId=1319#

 

http://www.roland.co...n/exp/COSM.html

 

so it seems that only the jtv does true hardware modelling, all others use synth-like technology...

 

COSM is modeling, it's merely an outdated technique that BOSS uses. They're too proud to admit that, but it is. It's been around for more than 10 years, and these past 10 years have had WAAAY bigger breakthroughs in modeling compared to COSM. 

 

Being an established pedal company for the past 30 years doesn't qualify you to be proud and arrogant pushing outdated technology for the past half decade though. Everyone is using new modeling each time they put out a new product, BOSS isn't. I'm not going to mess with any of their products besides a few classic pedals until they step up their game.


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#50 jandrio

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:31 AM

..COSM is modeling, it's merely an outdated technique that BOSS uses...

 

that's exactly what i was saying, in connection 2 the BOSS GP-10 Guitar Processor mentioned in this thread.

btw, roland and fender vg strat also uses this technology which is synth-based

so i repeat once again:

 

 

so it seems that only the jtv does true hardware modelling, all others use synth-like technology...

 

if u know any other GUITAR with true hardware modelling (incl true workbench utilities) , pls let us know...

 

ps

i do not know how the Gibson  HD.6X-Pro Digital Guitar works, but since i do not c any workbench options, i presume that this one is also synth-based...


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#51 fremen

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 12:06 PM

Looks like I'm the only one here to have both and Axe II and a Variax, and thus able to give an answer to your exact concern ;)

I have compared tracking on both, as I wanted to know that too. At first, I was using a detuned model of the Variax to play Breaking Benjamin's "Diary of Jane". Then, I tried to play the same with the magnetic pickups, dropping the lowest string two half steps, and detuning with the Axe (-2). Verdict, the Axe wins, and by far, with a slightly better latency, better sensations, and way better tone, as the palm muting is better with magnetic pickups. Less garble/artifacts in the sound too. I still love the Variax for what it brings to the table, custom tunings and different guitar models (even if I'm one of those who don't like firmware 2.1 Strats but that's another subject) ; I use it for DADGAD tuning (Kashmir) or some Alter Bridge/Creed songs. But for just detuning the six strings equally, the Axe pitch shift sounds and respond better.

 

I can record samples of JTV detune vs Axe detune if you want

 

I'm really intrigued by the Variax - especially now there's a model with a Floyd.  I play through an Axe FX II and in a hard rock / metal band which requires a lot of various tunings (E, Eb, Drop-D, Drop-Db, C).  I'm able to get by with multiple guitars and occasional use of a fixed harmony pitch shift block via the Axe.  Problem is the slight latency when utilizing a fixed harmony pitch block.  My question is for those with an Axe FX II and a Variax, does the Variax represent an improvement to this approach?  How convincing are the tones - especially the nuances (palm muting, pinch harmonics, etc.) when playing via the modeled pups in various tunings?  I'm fortunate enough to have many guitars so the guitar modeling isn't as important to me as are the tunings.  The thought of bringing one guitar to band rehearsal's (instead of several and selecting the tuning on-the-fly would be very cool.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

R


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#52 jandrio

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 01:33 AM

pls correct m if i'm wrong, but  i assume jtv must b in standard tuning  in order the alt-tunings 2 perform as designed.

so comparing 2 a physically detuned guitar wld produce unreliable results...


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#53 TheRealZap

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 05:32 AM

no, JTV alt tunings are relative...

 

it does not have to be tuned standard... 

 

but it is going to be a different experience vs a physically detuned guitar....

string tension etc.. and then you are also comparing magnetics vs piezos etc...

not 1:1 doesn't mean either is unusable. 

i prefer consistent string tension myself... but i'm not the alt tune target demographic...

i use it more for some basic capo type stuff or maybe dropping it a step or a half step here and there.

 

 

pls correct m if i'm wrong, but  i assume jtv must b in standard tuning  in order the alt-tunings 2 perform as designed.

so comparing 2 a physically detuned guitar wld produce unreliable results...


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#54 fremen

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 07:09 AM

absolutely, I tested the alternate tunings with the Variax E, E drop, D, in Eb and Eb drop C#... Not difference, it works the same. However, it is easier to program a custom tuning, specially a complex one, when the guitar is in E


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#55 stevekc

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 09:46 AM

 

 

pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling...

 

Not true at all

 

 

 

Re Pitch Shifters - Check out the new Electro Harmonix Pitch Fork too.

 


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#56 ColonelForbin

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 10:48 AM

I own them all ( VG-8 , VG-88, VG-99, GR-55,  Variax,Tyler Variax ,

 

and the Boss GP-10 has the lowest latency for Alt Tunings and Guitar Modeling in 2014.

 

 

In particular, how does the GP-10 compare with the GR-55? I find the omission of the MIDI stuff like horns, pianos, etc to be a limitation of the GP-10. I would imagine since the GR-55 is a few years old, that somewhere down the road a newer better version of that style floorboard will come along. I noticed that both the GP-10 and the GR-55 are still only using 44.1k sample quality - if you plug a MIDI guitar into something like Reason, does the sample quality improve over the COSM / Boss / Roland offerings?

 

I suppose it also begs the question, what type of MIDI guitar pickup system are you using with those units? I've been intrigued by this GP-10 product, to use alongside my JTV+HD500 rig; getting stuck on the MIDI pickup stuff. The GP-10 + external GK-3 is $500 on Sweetwater, a rather modest / minimal investment to get into the world of MIDI guitar rigs.

 

I also looked at the GC-1 "GK ready Fender Strat (Mexican) with the pre-installed GK internal pickup system.

Also considered what it would cost to install an internal GK pickup system into my USA Fender Strat (HSS - not sure if that humbucker in the bridge slot will cause any installation trouble)

 

Then, just for 'awareness', did a view on Sweetwater from price high to low, of their offerings, and I see +$4,000 Godin guitars pre-wired for 13 pin systems. YIKES?! TOo many options.

 

I realized that it comes down to that pickup and the guitar it's on - seems like it probably factors heavily into the quality of the tracking and the quality of the processing - the outboard unit can have all the DSP in the world, but if the pickup system isn't set up right on the guitar, then it's going to be a headache inducing mess. For example, if you put an external GK-3 on a Fender Strat, it will no longer fit in the standard moulded hard case... Fun! I can imagine the same will be true if I put that on my JTV59 since I have it in a rather snug Epiphone LP hard case.

 

Still, it's a cool thought, to have my JTV triggering MIDI alongside the Variax modeling..... (but that's just the G.A.S talking!) :)


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#57 stevekc

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 10:59 AM

Roland GK 13 pin discussions at  Line6 Forum might be considered a waste of bandwidth 

For answers  - its best to head over to these references 

 

http://www.vguitarfo...hp?topic=6125.0

 

 

Boss GP-10 TOP THINGS TO KNOW
http://www.vguitarfo...g85343#msg85343

 

 

* Roland COSM Reference Library (Mandatory information for beginners and advanced users) 
http://www.vguitarfo....php?topic=88.0

* Boss GP-10 Owner Reviews 
http://www.vguitarfo...p?topic=11506.0

 

* * Hex Pickup Type Advice. (GK-3 vs Piezo)
http://www.vguitarfo...g34288#msg34288

 

1372711237_653964409_P1000135.jpg

 

 

My current favorite 13 pin Guitar - a Godin JGX-SA with GFS XTrem

1409348617_1861881302_20140828_231655.jp


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#58 ColonelForbin

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 12:21 PM

Roland GK 13 pin discussions at  Line6 Forum might be considered a waste of bandwidth 

 

 

 

Lol, too true! That photo actually makes it look pretty cool! I suppose the "Borg" look isn't a *bad* thing. :)

But yeah, that photo of your JTV69 with the Gk-3 is pretty much spot on to what I imagined doing if I decide to get into the MIDI thing with my gear. 

 

Have you done any side by side comparisons between the GK+GP acoustic models vs the JTV acoustics?

Overall, I like the JTV acoustic models, though I would definitely have some fun running them side by side, and using two different acoustic models at the same time. 

 

I guess I would need to sort out how to mix all the signals together in some sensible way. When I was being stupid and running the 1/4" from my JTV into an analog pedal board, and merging that with the VDI signal, I definitely got some cool layered tones. 

 

It remains tempting, will keep ya posted if I end up giving the GP-10 with a GK on my JTV a whirl! :)

Thanks for the links too, will check those out, always nice to have some G.A.S. mitigating literature (or GAS inducing, depending)


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#59 stevekc

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 12:32 PM

 

 

 
Have you done any side by side comparisons between the GK+GP acoustic models vs the JTV acoustics?

 

Of course - but the results are not a popular topic on a Line-6 Forum ;)

(See my earlier post on this same thread on page 1) - I'm not paid to post my opinions which in 2014 are not too popular around here .

 

and I'm not an "Armchair theorist"  - I have receipts (and the hole in my bank account) for all gear I discuss. 

http://line6.com/sup...fx-pitch-shift/

 

 

 
It boils down to who has the fastest hexaphonic Guitar Modeling DSP  system in 2014  - and IMHO the Boss GP-10 is the current king

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#60 jandrio

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 01:08 AM

no, JTV alt tunings are relative...

 

it does not have to be tuned standard... 

 

but it is going to be a different experience vs a physically detuned guitar....

string tension etc.. and then you are also comparing magnetics vs piezos etc...

not 1:1 doesn't mean either is unusable. 

i prefer consistent string tension myself... but i'm not the alt tune target demographic...

i use it more for some basic capo type stuff or maybe dropping it a step or a half step here and there.

 

i blieve alt-tuning algorithms r performing @ optimum point when jtv is physically standard tuned.

 

of course i know alt-tuning is relative, that's the reason it requires absolutely correct physical tuning.

 

physically detuning means that the non-standard tuned guitar will b out of tune, unless a proper setup is carried out in order 2 compensate 4 the diff string tensions.

 

so, if the physical tuning is out of tune, the digital alt-tuning will also b out of tune and in my opinion, comparing these 2 situations wld provide unreliable/incomparable results...


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#61 jandrio

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 01:09 AM

 

pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling...

 

Not true at all

 

 

 

Re Pitch Shifters - Check out the new Electro Harmonix Pitch Fork too.

 

 

this is not a guitar...

in my post i was talkin'abt guitars, not pedals...


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#62 stevekc

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 08:08 AM

 

 

in my post i was talkin'abt guitars, not pedals...

Last I checked the title of the thread was "Variax Vs. Axe Fx Pitch Shift?""  - a discussion of best Pitch shift - so just mentioning the available alternatives  available today  - for those who want to know. 

article-1264092-081D0A9F000005DC-144_468

 

Axe FX is not a guitar either.

 

 "pls correct if i'm wrong but i believe the only true hardware simulation guitar is the jtv, all others are based on sound sampling..."

 

 

Again - not true,  find a Roland dealer and play a Boss GP-10 ( the latest Roland "VGuitar " system) and judge for yourself.

 

http://www.vguitarfo...hp?topic=6083.0

 

Bill Ruppert wrote>

Why was the Roland VG-99 so misunderstood by the public?

Was it too open ended and not pre EQed enough for the average guitar player to understand?
Was it just too deep for the average guitar player?
Did Roland them self never realize the potential of the VG-99??

I sit here staring at the VG-99 and wonder how in the world it is not at the top of the guitar players wish list.
In all my many, many years in the business I have never seen anything so misunderstood.

 

http://www.splawnamp...itar_synth.html


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#63 clay-man

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 09:13 AM

All pitch shifting is based on resampling. There's no other way to pitch shift. The only other pitch shifting is synthetic pitch shifting which basically just controls the frequency a synthesizer is outputting, but the JTV isn't a synth.


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#64 clay-man

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 09:17 AM

Last I checked the title of the thread was "Variax Vs. Axe Fx Pitch Shift?""  - a discussion of best Pitch shift - so just mentioning the available alternatives  available today  - for those who want to know. 

article-1264092-081D0A9F000005DC-144_468

 

Axe FX is not a guitar either.

 

 

Again - not true,  find a Roland dealer and play a Boss GP-10 ( the latest Roland "VGuitar " system) and judge for yourself.

 

http://www.vguitarfo...hp?topic=6083.0

 

Bill Ruppert wrote>

Why was the Roland VG-99 so misunderstood by the public?

Was it too open ended and not pre EQed enough for the average guitar player to understand?
Was it just too deep for the average guitar player?
Did Roland them self never realize the potential of the VG-99??

I sit here staring at the VG-99 and wonder how in the world it is not at the top of the guitar players wish list.
In all my many, many years in the business I have never seen anything so misunderstood.

 

http://www.splawnamp...itar_synth.html

 

The best pitch shifters I've ever heard is Reaper's Reapitch and Quikquak's Pitchwheel. Formant preserving and no warble are the 2 main things I look for in a pitch shifter. Another thing is latency. Reapitch is more for post-recording pitch shifting because the latency is horrendous.

 

Pitchwheel does about the same thing, maybe a smidge less in quality, but the latency is useable.

 

These are both VST/plugins btw, and Reapitch only works in the Reaper DAW.


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#65 jandrio

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:44 AM

Last I checked the title of the thread was "Variax Vs. Axe Fx Pitch Shift?"" ...

 

...Axe FX is not a guitar either...

 

 

Again - not true,  find a Roland dealer and play a Boss GP-10 ( the latest Roland "VGuitar " system) and judge for yourself.

 

correct, AXE is not a guitar, so we shld compare apples 2 apples....

 

Boss GP-10 is a synthesizer, using COSM technology, meanings that has no TRUE HARDWARE EMULATION, but synthesizes all the sounds it produces from "existing" samples. so the user IS FORCED 2 CHOOSE FROM PREDEFINED SOUNDS N' HAS NO ABILITY 2 DEEP-EDIT-MANIPULATE THOSE SOUNDS (eg change pots, alter mag position+angle+wiring plus plus plus, etc, etc).  u cannot do these "magics" on the boss/rolland synths, can u?

 

pls read carefully  my #48 post abv.

 

ps

u cannot feed the variax with a midi file/keyboard, can u?

u have 2 actally PLAY the instrument live in order 2 hear the sound.

so yes, it is true, only the jtv does hardware modelling.


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#66 stevekc

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 06:00 AM

 

 

Boss GP-10 is a synthesizer, using COSM technology, meanings that has no TRUE HARDWARE EMULATION, but synthesizes all the sounds it produces from "existing" samples. so the user IS FORCED 2 CHOOSE FROM PREDEFINED SOUNDS N' HAS NO ABILITY 2 DEEP-EDIT-MANIPULATE THOSE SOUNDS (eg change pots, alter mag position+angle+wiring plus plus plus, etc, etc).  u cannot do these "magics" on the boss/rolland synths, can u?

 

 

The GP-10 is a stripped down VG-99 - both have Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing - no sampling is employed on  1995 Roland VG-8, 2000 VG-88, 2007 VG-99, 2014 GP-10.

 

read :

COSM Revisited A Fresh Look at the Amazing Modeling Technology Inside BOSS and Roland Guitar Products

By Jim Bybee

http://www.bossus.co...?ArticleId=1319

 

 

Here is the GUI for the 2001 Roland VG-88 - which shows the Guitar Modeling and movable pickups - this inspired Line-6 to create the Variax. 

1402962989_145505405_VG88_Veditor.PNG

 

 

 

 

To me the biggest difference is Variax A/D and DSP is located in the Guitar,  - Roland COSM VGuitar 13 pin systems place the A/D and DSP blocks in an external unit.   

 

 

 

http://www.vguitarfo....php?topic=13.0

1372711085_224904781_Picture24.png

 

Suggest read the S.O.S Review of VG-99 for an overview of Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing

 

 

http://www.soundonso.../rolandvg99.htm

 

 

 

Although guitar modelling is no longer a novelty, we should remember that Roland pioneered this important area of guitar processing some 12 years ago with their VG8 system, which modelled not only amplifiers, effects and speakers but also guitar pickups and pickup position.

 

RolandVG99_2.jpg?L8tbT2nNQYmw0CBcr_j23nU

 

 

http://youtu.be/iZemSHaZAQw


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#67 jandrio

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 12:14 AM

....The GP-10 is a stripped down VG-99 - both have Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing - no sampling is employed on  1995 Roland VG-8, 2000 VG-88, 2007 VG-99, 2014 GP-10....

 

 

....Here is the GUI for the 2001 Roland VG-88 - which shows the Guitar Modeling and movable pickups - this inspired Line-6 to create the Variax.....


....me the biggest difference is Variax A/D and DSP is located in the Guitar,  - Roland COSM VGuitar 13 pin systems place the A/D and DSP blocks in an external unit.....

 

 

 

steve, tks 4 ur excellent tour abt rollad 1995-2001 vintage (?)  products, since i do not own such, i give u plus 1.

 

re-quoting from http://www.roland.co...n/exp/COSM.html

COSM: Composite Object Sound Modeling
Roland's breakthrough Composite Object Sound Modeling (COSM) uses the advantages of multiple modeling methods and succeeds in accurately emulating existing sounds....

 

as far as i understand from the abv, cosm is based on sampling existing sounds...

 

4 me the biggest diff bteen variax+cosm is how the algorithm produces the final sound: variax is based on hardware emulation, cosm is based on existing sounds emulation....


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#68 stevekc

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:26 AM

I realize Its very tough to form an opinion without actual hands on use - and even in southern California - I cant locate or name Any store in 2014 that actually has inventory of both  Line-6 Variax  and Roland GK systems for a musician to compare each against the other.  

 

I recommend attend a Gearfest  (Sweetwater has one every summer) , or the attend the public day at Summer NAMM in nashville 

 


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#69 clay-man

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 04:50 AM

The GP-10 is a stripped down VG-99 - both have Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing - no sampling is employed on  1995 Roland VG-8, 2000 VG-88, 2007 VG-99, 2014 GP-10.

 

 

Here is the GUI for the 2001 Roland VG-88 - which shows the Guitar Modeling and movable pickups - this inspired Line-6 to create the Variax. 

1402962989_145505405_VG88_Veditor.PNG

 

To me the biggest difference is Variax A/D and DSP is located in the Guitar,  - Roland COSM VGuitar 13 pin systems place the A/D and DSP blocks in an external unit.   

 

 

 

http://www.vguitarfo....php?topic=13.0

1372711085_224904781_Picture24.png

 

Suggest read the S.O.S Review of VG-99 for an overview of Roland Hexaphonic COSM processing

 

 

http://www.soundonso.../rolandvg99.htm

 

 

RolandVG99_2.jpg?L8tbT2nNQYmw0CBcr_j23nU

 

 

 

Some of that stuff looks pretty cool. I imagine that's their "Variax Workbench"?

 

Either way, it all boils down to what you think sounds better. I think the Variax does. I've said this a million times, but those piezos make a hell of a difference in modeling sound quality (as in they're better).


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For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#70 TheRealZap

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 05:41 AM

I recently used a GR55, and hated it... sounds where ok, latency fine...

the roland menus were cumbersome and the externally mounted pickups hideous.

i love options, and i know that there are roland ready strats etc...

between roland and variax (and a lesser extent that autotune peavey and fishman triple play)

someone will crack the whole concept wide open....

till then they are all useful tools...

the GR55 was fun for all the additional instruments...

i'm certainly not going to discount any of it...


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#71 snhirsch

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 08:17 AM

The built-in parameter editing is horrible.  That's why "GR55 Floorboard" was written.  And, as you point out, the "Roland Ready" strat has a nice, neat onboard hex pickup.


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990)

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Fender / Roland GC-1 Guitar

Boss GP-10 13-pin Processor

Antares ATG-1 Autotune Pedal

Fender Mustang III.v2 Modeling Amp

 


#72 stevekc

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 09:14 AM

Agreed- I dont use the GR-55 much

Gunmtown;s GR55 Floorboard is essential

 

 

 

Boss GP-10 is a different story  -due to its small size and great sound -  that one gets used a lot!

 

Guitar to MIDI is rather fast for a Roland product ( Fishman Tripleplay still rules that scene)

and its 8 channel recording ( one track per string + stereo pair) allows re-amping as well as "re-Guitaring"

 

 

 

I've said this a million times, but those piezos make a hell of a difference in modeling sound quality (as in they're better).

 

Got that covered!

http://www.godinguit...godinlgxsap.htm

1410382106_363093604_20140909_2050111.jp


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#73 ColonelForbin

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 02:12 PM

Yeah; the Godin's look pretty nice! I am wondering if I am crazy for wanting to put a Gk-3 on my JTV-59. But I am psyched to run the dual-insanity; VDI to the HD500, 13-pin/GK to the GR-55.

 

I definitely can't squeeze an external GK-3 onto my Strat without raising the action a fair bit. Was comparing the Roland 'GK ready' strat (mexican) that goes for something like $900, vs the Godin 13 pin ready, which the lowest price is around $1,200, but does some pretty cool stuff - has three outputs (mags, 13 pin, piezos)

 

For some odd reason, Zzounds only offers a 4 payment on the Godin, while they do their standard 8 payment on the Roland strat. Weird..

I suppose I will do the double stick tape on the JTV for a temporary "try this crazy idea out" solution, and see if I really like the sound of the all this processing together. I certainly don't want to take the bridge off the JTV-59 to do that version of the attachment, nor am I inclined to drill holes in the face of the JTV59 to do a more secure mounting..

 

Curious about how the JTV models would overlap with the GR-55 samples; not sure if there will by any nasty, muddy latency issues.. I am trying to do too much with with too little $$ budget, as usual! :)


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#74 snhirsch

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 04:32 AM

A lot of dealers have been blowing out stock of the Fender/Roland GC-1 Strat.  The local music store here had one on the rack for over a year and was happy to let it go for $450.


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40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990)

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Fender / Roland GC-1 Guitar

Boss GP-10 13-pin Processor

Antares ATG-1 Autotune Pedal

Fender Mustang III.v2 Modeling Amp

 


#75 stevekc

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:27 AM

Ive heard of scratch & dent GC-1s selling for $300 on the Guitar Center Floor.

 

But as a musician,  competition is a good thing

 

and Roland is not the only thing on sale


$799 - $150 rebate = $649 for a Tyler JTV-69 (?)
http://www.musicians...000?src=3TP4KGC


 

1413505192_1587532631_JTV_Sale.PNG 

 

 

 

 

 

For some odd reason, Zzounds only offers a 4 payment on the Godin, while they do their standard 8 payment on the Roland strat. Weird..

 

As a former Guitar repairman - I seek damaged guitars on ebay and do my own repairs

 

My 2013 Godin LGX-SA  was $650 - due to cracked headstock - I fixed that and added a GFS X-Trem Bigsby type tremolo for $40 and I'm very happy driving my VG-99, GR-55, GP-10 with a GK 13 pin splitter box 

gkpx14_8.jpg

 

 

I can also do the same with my JTV-69 with GK-3  - and then run a separate VDI cable to the HD500X or Vetta amp and Now it really gets interesting! 


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#76 stevekc

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:56 AM

sorry for the off topic exploration

 

 

 It's extremely inconsiderate to hi-jack someone else's post so please show some decorum and abide by rules. 

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#77 TheRealZap

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 09:54 AM

FWIW, 

i enjoyed your posts, and insights about alternatives...

not sure who you are quoting re:hijacking though... if it's not the original poster i think it's a little presumptive on their part.

 

 

sorry for the off topic exploration


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#78 stevekc

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 01:59 PM

just covering my tracks in case some find my posts too upsetting and off topic

( it has happened before)

 

http://line6.com/sup...-tension-trees/


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#79 ColonelForbin

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:37 PM

No apologies for off topic response here! lol, it's all one big conversation anyway - considering the original post is about an Axe-FX, we're already pretty off topic as is :)

 

In order to stay 'on topic', even though all the responses have been excellent and very informative - I would think that the power of an Axe-FX coupled with a high quality multi-string pickup system would be really cool.

 

While Axe-FX is most definitely an amazing piece of gear, at a very steep price point - it's still doing the same basic effect processing that any / all other mono and stereo processors are doing. I could see the future bringing an evolution of the GK style 'hexaphonic' pickups and the JTV style piezo saddles being able to interface with the Axe-FX gear - at which point it would be pretty awesome.

 

As is, the Axe-FX is still a bit 'one dimensional' in terms of what it can do with pitch tracking. In that regard - and in response to the original post - the Variax is better - or at least attempts to be more advanced - since it can adjust the pitch of INDIVIDUAL strings.

 

Which is how we diverted into the very interesting and informative world of Roland, GP-10, GR055, etc, because the technology of the Roland gear; especially the GP-10, offers extremely high end individual string pitch shifting. Axe-FX can't do that; JTV can. It becomes a somewhat subjective conversation at that point; I don't use the JTV alternate tuning as often as I should, but when I do, it works very well. Axe-FX cannot change my tuning to Open G, or Drop D, or even, move the top 5 strings down 3 steps, but drop the low E string down 5 steps - Drop B? 

 

Not attacking Axe-FX - incredible stuff. Made in the USA! Kudos to that. indeed, I would love to see the Axe folks embrace the technology that is around it; imagine being able to plug your JTV VDI cable, or your Roland GK 13 pin INTO an Axe-FX and process multi-string using their FX. Way cool!

 

As for me, I am going to work on installing my new GK3 on my JTV59 tonight (using the temp double stick tape method for now), just because, I like the idea of playing piano with my guitar. Or trumpet. Or run that thing into Reason, and trigger drums with it!

 

So yeah, the "off topic" posts, as far as I am concerned, were spot on.


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#80 ColonelForbin

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:41 PM

 

I can do the same with my JTV-69 with GK-3  - and run a separate VDI cable to the HD500X or Vetta amp and really gets interesting. 

 

That is precisely what I am going to do! Will attempt to get that GK3 on my JTV tonight after work~ :)


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