Need some help figuring out if Helix would work for me

[ramirezdan]

I filed a support ticket, but was basically told to read the manual in order to understand the unit. I ended up ordering a Helix and am now in the process of figuring out if it will work for me.

 

I use two amps live and control Ableton Live with a floor pedal. The scribble strips in the Helix are outrageously ideal for me, but I'm struggling figuring out if I can actually get the Helix to do what I want it to do.

 

It looks pretty trivial to program the Helix to send midi notes which allow me to control Live.

 

e.g., Live Preset

 

1. Scene Up
2. Scene Down
3. Scene Launch
4. Clip Record
5. Select Amp1
6. Select Amp2
7. Select Moog
8. Select Nord

With those 8 midi note mappings, I'm able to control Live to the extent I need. I'd love to have another bank of 8 to control the looper and maybe another bank of 8 to use plugin FX, but for the time being, let's assume I just need those 8 messages.

 

The part I'm struggling with is whether or not I'll be able to make use of the Helix's preamps and FX(don't need power amp or cab simulation since I'll always be playing with two tube amps).

 

The question I still don't have an answer to is this:

 

Can I pick a preset that includes FX and preamp then later, while still using that previous FX and preamp preset, use that Live Preset above *without* blowing out the previous FX and preamp sounds?

 

Hope that made sense. 

 

 

 

[WickedFinger]

I am not that up on the midi stuff as I just have never used it. Not using the Helix primarily for amp and cab models is really limiting its intended forte. 

A couple misnomers are that you need to use just preamps when running into a power amp, tubes or otherwise, you do not. The amp model imparts a fullness and depth to the tone much more than just the preamp model. I am not sure of most others out there but I run a multi rig set up using stereo FRFR speakers and I have stereo wired 4x12 using high end guitar speakers. I use different power amps but no tubes. And I use the full amp and cab IRs for my rig as the sound is just amazing. What you are doing is basically using your amps as a power amp so you are really already there. One does not really run a full preamp into a preamp so if you are doing that with the preamp models it is not going to really do well. Having used many amps using the effect loop return to bypass the amps preamp section on various rigs I have used including a guitar synth rig, eventually the resistors on the loop will blow, all of mine did in time. Better to have a dedicated power amp but we have to use what we have at hand many times so we make the best of it. 

 

Using a compact power amp with matched wattage to your speakers works the best and despite the notion we have to get tubes in there somehow. L6 Engineering will tell you you will get better results not using a tube power amp as the tubes have already been modeled and you do not need additional clipping and gain response from them. It tends to be too much of a good thing. (I do recommend using FRFR speakers or high end guitar speakers.) Anyway, just FYI. 

 

You can create in the Helix a dual amp patch with an array of effects you are switch auto by snap shot one button, one button preset change or basic on and off effects via their switches and assigns. You can make one switch do multiple things and assign more sophisticate controllers to do many complex things which are a little over my head right now from the aspect I just have not gotten in there to learn or use them for my rig. 

The charm of the Helix is its ability potential and future potential that others just do not have. 

 

It's a big step changing from amps but it can be done and using the Helix makes for one super fast rig set up and worry over gear. Like most I was obsessed with my tube amps and so on, after I wanted to finally get away from the buying of tubes that were often bad in a supposed matched set and/or tested binned and the resulting maintenance and bias adjustments of tube amps. Modeling can work and does sound amazing if you have the talent for tweaking and developing intelligent presets.

I had owned several modelers before the Helix and they just did not push me over to being able to leave my tube amp arsenal. When I first ran through the Helix and my initial tests for what I want a modeler to do, feel and respond to pedals. This is the deal, did not need to go Fractal or Kemper this one has it. And I say that as a POD hater you could not give me one, been there done that. The Helix has the capability to do what you want and I suspect in several different means. I am not up on some of your needs but I do know from what I program I could use controllers, presets and snapshots to get it all. 

The effects in the Helix are only a few being of the new HX component modeling technique many are carry overs from the POD and M L6 stock and they have promised to upgrade in time. So the effects are not vastly superior to other units or even higher end pedals for that matter. 

So can it do what you have in mind, I am certain it can. It would be hard for someone to detail exact walk through of what and how to do it without having your rig to analyze and figure out the best methodology. 

[ramirezdan]

Thanks for the response. I totally recognize that I'm not Line6's target market. The biggest draw to me is the scribble strips + midi commands, next is the effects. If I ever use the amp and cab simulation for anything other than headphone jamming, that's a bonus. 

 

You mentioned pathA and pathB. If the Helix can do what I want, I suspect the solution is to put all midi controlling on pathB and FX on pathA. For my purposes, I need multiple presets to be completely independant of eachother. 

[gsking1]

>It looks pretty trivial to program the Helix to send midi notes which allow me to control Live.

Yes super easy, can can customize names and colors too. Nice.

 

The second part of your question, I'm not sure if I fully understand. Yes you can use preamps and effects, but you would not be able to manually switch them on and off with feet,since those stomps are already used for Live control midi notes. BUT you could set up snapshots or presets of your pre/effects and switch between snapshots with feet. If you wanted different preamps and effects you could use snapshots or presets. The MIDI control center stuff is per preset, so once you've got that you can copy that preset as a template.

 

A more basic example I have is in my photo where I have Live controlled with MIDI notes with the left five stomps and effects assigned to those on the right. Hope that helps.

[gsking1]

>I'd love to have another bank of 8 to control the looper and maybe another bank of 8 to use plugin FX, but for the time being, let's assume I just need those 8 messages.

 

If I understand what you are asking correctly, Another thing to consider is that there is an audio dropout (very small but it's there) between presets so you might not want to switch to another preset (your term bank) just the have differrent MIDI functions while letting a chord ring out. No audio drop outs if staying within the same preset.

[ramirezdan]

>I'd love to have another bank of 8 to control the looper and maybe another bank of 8 to use plugin FX, but for the time being, let's assume I just need those 8 messages.

 

If I understand what you are asking correctly, Another thing to consider is that there is an audio dropout (very small but it's there) between presets so you might not want to switch to another preset (your term bank) just the have differrent MIDI functions while letting a chord ring out. No audio drop outs if staying within the same preset.

 

Thanks. Your picture is super close to what I'm trying to do.

 

I've got a preset working great to control Ableton Live, but it's just a dry DI tone routed to my amp. That's actually fine for my current rig, but for me to keep the Helix, I'll need it to function as a multi-FX pedal too.

 

I basically need to be able to control Live(works great in a preset with the mode button pushed) while simultaneously getting FX on my DI signal. I don't need to access the Live buttons and the FX stomp switches simultaneously, but I do need to be able to change my guitar sound with my feet, and control Live with my feet. 

 

It might be that I have to live within one preset to be able to control Live with Helix's multiFX. 

 

I found the snapshots feature in the editor and started to fill snapshot 2 with MIDI mappings for the looper in Ableton Live. Unfortunately, it looks like the scribble strips retain the same names for all of the snapshots, so that ended up being a dead end. 

 

I also notice that if I hold MODE I get switch access to some stomp effects. This might be the place where I can access the FX in my Ableton Live preset. 

 

i.e., assign the midi notes to the 8 switches when you click "mode". access FX switches by holding "mode".

[gsking1]

If you stay within one preset you should be able to use up to 10 MIDI many functions from stomps 1-5 and 7-11 while in stomp box mode. Then if you want to switch to snapshot mode you could use up to 8 snapshots for different FX. E.g. Snap 1 might be your clean compressor only and snap 2 might turn off the compressor and turn on the delay, snap 3 might be the same as 2, but with more mix on the delay, etc. etc. Then press the mode button to go back to your MIDI stomps. There are multiple ways to set up preset/snap/stomp in global options. This thing is deep and it might take you a while to figure out which is best for you. Bottom line is this seems totally doable as long as you stick to 8 or 10 midi functions in one preset. Once you start jumping to different presets just so you can change some midi function in Live, then I think it will become cumbersome and a dedicated midi controller may be better, but that's just me.

[ramirezdan]

If you stay within one preset you should be able to use up to 10 MIDI many functions from stomps 1-5 and 7-11 while in stomp box mode. Then if you want to switch to snapshot mode you could use up to 8 snapshots for different FX. E.g. Snap 1 might be your clean compressor only and snap 2 might turn off the compressor and turn on the delay, snap 3 might be the same as 2, but with more mix on the delay, etc. etc. Then press the mode button to go back to your MIDI stomps. There are multiple ways to set up preset/snap/stomp in global options. This thing is deep and it might take you a while to figure out which is best for you. Bottom line is this seems totally doable as long as you stick to 8 or 10 midi functions in one preset. Once you start jumping to different presets just so you can change some midi function in Live, then I think it will become cumbersome and a dedicated midi controller may be better, but that's just me.

 

Cool. I tried to use snapshots for the MIDI commands, but the scribblestrips are per preset, not per snapshot, so looks like snapshots won't work for me. 

 

That said, I now understand how I can use them. All 8 snapshots would contain my 8 Live commands, then I could assign various FX settings to each snapshot using the devices in the preset. e.g., clean, dirty, clean + delay, dirty + delay, etc.

 

You mention 10 buttons being accessible. I see this in the Helix editor, but can't figure out how to use footswitch 1 and 7. They appear to be the "Bank Up" and "Bank Down" buttons. Just curious what mode enables them. I feel like I'll have a pretty good handle on things once I get that understood.

 

Once I get this figured out, I'll post some Tremoverb/Rectoverb mic'd clips vs. the Helix. That's my stereo amp setup. I wasn't able to get anywhere close in my headphone attempts last night using previously recorded DI signals, so I'm excited to see where I end up. 

[ramirezdan]

You mention 10 buttons being accessible. I see this in the Helix editor, but can't figure out how to use footswitch 1 and 7. They appear to be the "Bank Up" and "Bank Down" buttons. Just curious what mode enables them. I feel like I'll have a pretty good handle on things once I get that understood.

 

Found it. For anyone else interested, the 10 switches(vs. 8 default) is found under "Global Settings". I've mostly been using the editor and as far as I can tell, the editor doesn't have these "Global Settings".