Helix Noob advice needed

[Stratotron]

Amp models.. I have created a handful of tones and I am finding that I am cranking the  Amp Channels and Master volumes way up. Is it better to run the Amp volumes down and increase the Output Volume? (knob on face) For instance on one set I ran a patch using the Park 75, and another using the Essex AC30 (I love this one) I order to get unity between the 2, I have the Essex Master at 10 and the Channel volume at 9.5.

 

So my question is, before I get to far into creating tones; is it better to leave the modeled levels alone and turn up the output, and then pull the heavier amp models down, instead of turning the quiet ones up?

 

Helix has truly delivered on the gig, cut through the mix without being loud. Was able to turn my overall monitoring down, our drummer loves the tone in his monitor!

 

Snapshots are incredible, and Snapshot parameter control is easy to set up, once (I) understood it.   

[DunedinDragon]

Personally, I reserve the Master Output volume knob as the way to manage my overall volume across all of my patches.  Typically I leave it at about 50% and normalize the volume on each patch to around 100db by using an external sound meter.  I set the amp model volume and drive to get the tone I want, but I seldom set my amp model's volume much above 8.5 or maybe 9.  Quite often, depending on the amp model, it may be set somewhere around 6.  Some of the amp models have a master volume setting which can also sometimes affect the tone, but most of the time that defaults to 100.  Once I get the tone I'm looking for, if it's below or above 100db I'll adjust the volume level on the output block as that seems to have very little affect on the tone and simply increases or decreases the volume.

 

Generally 100db is about perfect to mix well with the stage volume of our band.  But on occasion on larger stages, I may need to increase it (as will everyone else) in order to hear each other, so I only have to adjust the Master Output volume knob on the Helix and all of my patches will have the same increase or decrease.

[Verne-Bunsen]

Since the master volume has a big impact in tone, I avoid using it as an "overall volume" adjustment. I adjust drive and master to get the sound, then the channel volume to get the overall volume set. If there isn't enough on tap there, there's lots more available in the output block. A gain block after the amp is also a good option. In some cases where I have to run the amp settings really low to get it clean, I'll use a compressor after the amp to smooth things out get the volume back. Lots of options!

 

As far as getting all of your patches at the same level, I'd recommend plugging into your DAW and using your input meter. There is no clipping indicator in Helix, so use that to make sure that your signal strength isn't running away with compounding gain. I set all of mine to hit the DAW at about -12db.

[lawrence_Arps]

its been said before...your bypass level should be about the same as your active level.

 

With all your FX off, switch the amp model in and out...the volume should stay roughly the same.  

If you want to have Rhythm/Solo differences, use the above method for lead and turn the Channel volumes down for the rhythm patch/snapshot.

This will ensure you always have headroom and no risk of clipping.

 

I always run the master volume knob on full at home and at 90% (4oclock) live in case the stage volume goes up and I need a little more.

[lawrence_Arps]

Personally, I reserve the Master Output volume knob as the way to manage my overall volume across all of my patches.  Typically I leave it at about 50% and normalize the volume on each patch to around 100db by using an external sound meter.  I set the amp model volume and drive to get the tone I want, but I seldom set my amp model's volume much above 8.5 or maybe 9.  Quite often, depending on the amp model, it may be set somewhere around 6.  Some of the amp models have a master volume setting which can also sometimes affect the tone, but most of the time that defaults to 100.  Once I get the tone I'm looking for, if it's below or above 100db I'll adjust the volume level on the output block as that seems to have very little affect on the tone and simply increases or decreases the volume.

 

Generally 100db is about perfect to mix well with the stage volume of our band.  But on occasion on larger stages, I may need to increase it (as will everyone else) in order to hear each other, so I only have to adjust the Master Output volume knob on the Helix and all of my patches will have the same increase or decrease.

it sounds from your post as if you have no other volume control on your monitoring system?

Im running into an L2...sometimes two. I have the L2 input set on about 9-10 oclock at home , maybe 11  for a gig.

[DunedinDragon]

it sounds from your post as if you have no other volume control on your monitoring system?

Im running into an L2...sometimes two. I have the L2 input set on about 9-10 oclock at home , maybe 11  for a gig.

I keep my monitor (Yamaha DXR12) volume consistently at 50% even when I'm normalizing the volume on the patches.  I don't want to have to adjust it at all.  It's easier to make all the adjustments on the Helix master volume knob at sound check time for any room differences.

[talwilkins]

its been said before...your bypass level should be about the same as your active level.

 

With all your FX off, switch the amp model in and out...the volume should stay roughly the same.  

If you want to have Rhythm/Solo differences, use the above method for lead and turn the Channel volumes down for the rhythm patch/snapshot.

This will ensure you always have headroom and no risk of clipping.

 

I always run the master volume knob on full at home and at 90% (4oclock) live in case the stage volume goes up and I need a little more.

Are you sure about this?

It seems very strange to me. Isn't that what an amplifier is supposed to do? Make the signal louder?

Now you're saying the amplifier shouldn't amplify the signal??????????

Please elaborate!

[WickedFinger]

Just FYi true to real amps, drive is preamp gain, and Master is effectively power amp stage drive and/or gain. Ch vol is more the volume level of the amp but also has interaction effect. By running Master low and ch vol up it hits the preamp gain more but not the power amp qualities, I tend to run my master up and overall level using the Ch vol and artful use of simple or Cali EQ if needed post stage.  Of course it is all variant on what amp model and the overall tone structure you are after. 

[njglover]

Are you sure about this?

It seems very strange to me. Isn't that what an amplifier is supposed to do? Make the signal louder?

Now you're saying the amplifier shouldn't amplify the signal??????????

Please elaborate!

 

When running live sound, the power amp for the PA is always at a fixed volume. You need to run it at a level where the amp is not clipping the speakers so you don't blow out the speakers. Everything that needs to run through the speakers needs to go through a mixer. You make sure all the gear going isn't clipping the mixer and turn up the mixer to the appropriate volume. If you can't get enough volume from there, then you didn't buy a powerful enough amp and/or speakers. This is live sound in a nutshell. So what he was referring to is essentially this: mixing with the Helix while leaving the PA at a constant volume. Though normally the sound guy would be in charge of the mixer instead.

 

Also, my understanding is that the Helix has 4 "volumes" - first is gain, which controls your preamp gain, second is master, which controls your amp model's power section, third is channel volume which is NOT the same as channel volume on a real amp but is rather used to simply match volumes between your patches, and then finally is the overall volume that is generally controlled by the big knob.

[WickedFinger]

Seems like a logical premise to me.

The only real reason to make the amp louder is to come out of the mix for like a solo.

Anything in front of the amp model gain wise, no matter what serves to increase the amp clipping and dist/gain structure.

Anything after the amp model will bring the level up including effect volumes.

If you want a non coloring level boost for solos to come out of the mix you would place a flat EQ with about 3-4db level increase after the amp, or controller set a switch and/or preset shapshot to increase the amp ch vol some.

If using a block effect for vol gain boost be sure where you place it does not clip out anything after it. 

On effect levels; sometimes you need to bring the amp up to at least unity or if the amp is too loud roll back on the ch vol.

In a digital platform such as the Helix, it is not analog so the notion of running everything a little hot into the next in chain does not work out because you want to avoid harsh digital clipping from overt level cascade.

Digital input/output clipping is not musical and is not desirable. You need to go through your final presets making sure nothing causes unwanted digital level artifact clipping when on with everything else. If you are wanting high gain levels let the model do its thing and generate it. Most amp models can sponge and take a certain amount of front end boost or drive but one does not over hit it like you might on analog stuff. If you need more gain out of amp or want a clean amp to gain up use a distortion pedal block or loop out to a high gain pedal. Common rule of thought applies that distortion pedals or models thereof were meant for a clean amp to have distortion option, overdrives to some extend as well, but a boost or OD in front of a gained amp tightens up the response and allows less amp gain on the knob for more definition and note articulation.