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L2t; Intermittent Popping


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#1 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:06 PM

I just getting started with a new rig....essentially using the L2t as a monitor for a 2-channel guitar (Gibson SG Supra with mag and pz pick-ups)....the mag (humbucker) pick-ups are running through a POD HD500X into the L2t's channel 2 - all good, great tones. The pz (..a Fishman bridge pick-up..) is running through a Radial PZ DI into the L2t channel 1 (with the acoustic model)...again, sounds great but experiencing intermittent popping (...just channel 1.., every 30 secs or so...) ...seems to be an artifact from the acoustic modeling....can anyone advise?...tks
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#2 jaminjimlp

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:17 PM

Did you try the l6 link? I remember there was a pop on the m20d fx before I updated the firmware, try to update the firmware on hd500x if there is one.
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#3 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:53 AM

-jaminjimlp-tks for your reply

Unfortunately, the L6 link bipasses the mixer....can't use the L2t acoustic modeling ( via ch1)....I did notice that I (inadvertently) had the attenuation pad switched in.....Following my post, tried switching out the pad and turned-off the feedback cntrl....was only able to test for a short while, but didn't hear the popping....going to test further this wknd.....if the pop stays gone, will try to engage each (pad and feedback cntrl), see if I can isolate the cause
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#4 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:04 AM

Jaminjimlp - tks for the reply

HD500X firmware, drivers all current....really unrelated as the prob is limited to channel 1 ( running the PZ pick-up into the acoustic modeler)....unfortnately, using an L6 link (from the HD500X to the L2T) bypasses the mixer and ch1 acoustic modeler - doesn't wotk for my config....

After posting, I chk'd my settings, noted I had (inadvertently) engaged the attenuation pad on ch....switched the pad out and disabled the feedback cntrl....no popping during limited tests.....will test againg this wknd, see if the popping is really gone, hopefully isolate the cause between pad or feedback cntrl

- Matt
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#5 dboomer

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:38 AM

Need more info...

Are the L2s connected via analog or L6 link?

Is EVERYTHING plugged into the same AC strip? Do you get popping in the speakers if you disconnect all inputs? Popping in the speakers may not be coming from the speakers themselves. You have to rule out everything else.

#6 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

Dboomer - tks

I'm only using a single L2T....further tests today have shown that removing the pad and disabling the feedback cntrl elkminates the popping...still haven't isolated which was the culprit....( perhaps both, namely the -20db level shift starving the feedback DSP, coincidently creating DSP artifacts)....the good news is that it appears to be clean now

- Matt
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#7 RonMarton

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:14 PM

Matt, me old mate...

 

You've just asked me to check this out ...and I've gotta "fess up" by saying that I never answered this because I was (and remain) mystified by how (and maybe even why) you are inserting your (admittedly brilliant) piezo-compensating Radial PZ-DI ahead of your L2t's first input channel.

 

I understand the need for that device with mic inputs that aren't as "forgiving" as Line 6's (in that they "load" piezo pickups with tone-destroying lower impedances) but my first thought would be for you to try an old-fashioned tip-sleeve connection from the Fishman pickup in your magnificent Gibson directly into the jack "hole" at the centre of that channel 1's "combi" input connector  ...and then for you to enjoy a long "play and listen" experimentation session, using the huge range of "Body" and "Verb" settings that you now have at your command.

 

As you (kinda sorta) suspected, the "popping" that prompted this topic may well have been the result of the L2t's feedback suppression having been "upset" by supersonic or subsonic (in other words not actually audible) oscillation from your PZ-DI, that oscillation having arisen from some anomaly in the PZ-DI's hookup...

 

...But whatever caused it, I'd be very surprised if you didn't end up relegating that trusty Radial DI box to "airport duty", ...used only when you and your magnificent Gibson SG Supra need to "fly" to a gig in order to plug into someone else's amplification.    


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#8 dboomer

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:34 PM

Dboomer - tks
I'm only using a single L2T....further tests today have shown that removing the pad and disabling the feedback cntrl elkminates the popping...


Ahhh! What mode do you have the feedback manager in? If you run "music" through the system while you have it in " speech" mode you will probably hear some artifacts. You should always use it in the green mode with music.

http://line6.com/sup...ned-further-r12

#9 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:52 PM

Ron - many tks for your sage insights....as you allude, the SG Supra is where my story begins....a single TRS connection carries both the magnetic (humbuckers) and the Fishman PZ...the Supra provides two clever connection options...summed signals when connecting via a std 1/4" instrument cable....or, seperate signals via TRS.....given my primary guitar amp is a Mesa MarkV, my goal was to seperate the signals, run the humbucks to the tube amp (via POD HD500X), PZ to a PA.... I've had great results across many Radial products, saw the PZ DI as a good choice for the A/B Y switch I was looking for..and offers an effects loop for the acoustic side....with the feedback cntrl disabled, the tones and overall audio performance into the L2T (my default portable rig) is incredible....given no feedback issues, I would just as soon keep this function disabled.....
All said, you've made several important observations....Given the sound quality is so good with the Radial (and the effects loop an added bonus), I'd like to keep it in play.....I do have another interesting option on the the Radial PZ DI...rather than using the DI'd XLR connection, I can also connect the PZ out via an unbalanced output available on the Radial.....given your consult, sounds like the unbalanced connection might avoid the potential problem with the feedback cntrl circuit - thoughts?
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#10 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:04 PM

Dboomer - tks again

Yes...will try feedback enabled again, this time verifying "green"

- Matt
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#11 Sideshowqaz

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:19 PM

Ron - just remembered (in case you were looking at Radial PZ DI info on-line), I'm actually using Radial's Tonebone version of the P Z DI....Radial's version is actully somewhat different, designed to DI stringed instruments, vs the Tonebone PZ DI, which behaves like an A/BY switcher with bandpass filters, effects loop and DI output for the PZ signal leg.

- Matt
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#12 RonMarton

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 07:41 PM

Thanks for your patience, Matt...

 

I now think I've got my head around both the "why" and the "how" of your Tonebone PZ's implementation ...and it also sounds like I would probably just love to rock along to your huge variety of tonalities, while reminiscing about Mesa-Boogie days of yore.

 

(The name Terry Kath springs to mind...)

 

...sounds like the unbalanced connection might avoid the potential problem with the feedback cntrl circuit...

 

Although there'd be no harm in trying it,  I very much doubt that's actually the issue in play here ...and anyway, XL connectors are far more robust and consequently less prone to "splatting".

 

Also, while ensuring the "Music Mode" is "green lit" for correct automatic feedback suppression, I'm staggered that you find you need it, given how loud it must become for feedback to be a problem from even your bridge pickup, ...given that your L2t is indeed correctly placed, preferably on a stand.

 

One thing that may well be worth a try, however, is a one "versus the other" test with regard to the two positions selectable at your Tonebone PZ's "Lift" switch, as "earth lift" or "grounding" may possibly be at the heart of the weirdness in question. 


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