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Variax Ghost Notes?


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#61 robdog03

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:28 PM

I'm having the same "ghost note" problem on my Korean JTV-59 with FW 2.0.

 

The altered tunings worked correctly when I got the guitar with FW 1.8. They still worked correctly after I applied the FW 2.0 update.

 

Then I edited one of the tunings, per the procedure in the manual, and saved it to the guitar.

 

Now, all of the tunings (including factory ones that I didn't change) pass both the altered pitch and the natural string pitch. Essentially, changing one tuning broke all of them. This occurs on all guitar models.

 

Here's an example of what happens:

  1. I select a tuning that lowers the 1st (high E) string to D (e.g., BLUES G).
  2. When I pluck the string, I hear both D (the altered pitch) and E (the actual string pitch) in the headphones or amplifier.
  3. If I go into Workbench HD and lower the volume of the 1st string in the tuning window, both notes decrease in volume.
  4. It's hard to tell for sure, but it sounds like both notes are being processed by the guitar model.

The 1st string in the procedure above is just an example.

  • The problem happens on any string that is altered by a tuning, on any guitar model.
  • It occurs regardless of whether the guitar is connected to the computer.
  • POD presets are not a factor. I do not own a POD with a Variax port. I'm using the USB to MIDI adapter that came with the guitar.
  • The mag pickups are not mixed in.
  • I am not hearing the strings vibrating on the guitar.

The altered tunings are no longer suppressing the actual string pitch.

 

I hope they find a fix for this soon. The tuning function is one of the main reasons that I bought the Variax.

 

-Rob


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#62 herimusic

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:03 AM

This exactly describes it!

 

btw my support ticket disappeared, it was not answered or closed, it just disappeared  :huh:


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#63 spmartin

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:26 AM

This exactly describes it!

 

btw my support ticket disappeared, it was not answered or closed, it just disappeared  :huh:

 

 

I'm having the same "ghost note" problem on my Korean JTV-59 with FW 2.0.

 

The altered tunings worked correctly when I got the guitar with FW 1.8. They still worked correctly after I applied the FW 2.0 update.

 

Then I edited one of the tunings, per the procedure in the manual, and saved it to the guitar.

 

Now, all of the tunings (including factory ones that I didn't change) pass both the altered pitch and the natural string pitch. Essentially, changing one tuning broke all of them. This occurs on all guitar models.

 

Here's an example of what happens:

  1. I select a tuning that lowers the 1st (high E) string to D (e.g., BLUES G).
  2. When I pluck the string, I hear both D (the altered pitch) and E (the actual string pitch) in the headphones or amplifier.
  3. If I go into Workbench HD and lower the volume of the 1st string in the tuning window, both notes decrease in volume.
  4. It's hard to tell for sure, but it sounds like both notes are being processed by the guitar model.

The 1st string in the procedure above is just an example.

  • The problem happens on any string that is altered by a tuning, on any guitar model.
  • It occurs regardless of whether the guitar is connected to the computer.
  • POD presets are not a factor. I do not own a POD with a Variax port. I'm using the USB to MIDI adapter that came with the guitar.
  • The mag pickups are not mixed in.
  • I am not hearing the strings vibrating on the guitar.

The altered tunings are no longer suppressing the actual string pitch.

 

I hope they find a fix for this soon. The tuning function is one of the main reasons that I bought the Variax.

 

-Rob

Rob - I encourage you to take your entire post above, copy it and paste it into a new Support Ticket. Then call Line 6 support - wait if you have to. Then ask for Hugo. He is attempting to solve this for me. The more input he has the better. Your description of this is good!


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#64 spmartin

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:28 AM

This exactly describes it!

 

btw my support ticket disappeared, it was not answered or closed, it just disappeared  :huh:

I would call them. Maybe put in a new support ticket. I know if they do not have activity for some time, they are deleted. This quote is from their site. "Tickets that are 'assumed answered' or 'waiting on customer' will automatically close eventually unless you respond to them."


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#65 spmartin

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:35 AM

I'm having the same "ghost note" problem on my Korean JTV-59 with FW 2.0.

 

The altered tunings worked correctly when I got the guitar with FW 1.8. They still worked correctly after I applied the FW 2.0 update.

 

Then I edited one of the tunings, per the procedure in the manual, and saved it to the guitar.

 

Now, all of the tunings (including factory ones that I didn't change) pass both the altered pitch and the natural string pitch. Essentially, changing one tuning broke all of them. This occurs on all guitar models.

 

Here's an example of what happens:

  1. I select a tuning that lowers the 1st (high E) string to D (e.g., BLUES G).
  2. When I pluck the string, I hear both D (the altered pitch) and E (the actual string pitch) in the headphones or amplifier.
  3. If I go into Workbench HD and lower the volume of the 1st string in the tuning window, both notes decrease in volume.
  4. It's hard to tell for sure, but it sounds like both notes are being processed by the guitar model.

The 1st string in the procedure above is just an example.

  • The problem happens on any string that is altered by a tuning, on any guitar model.
  • It occurs regardless of whether the guitar is connected to the computer.
  • POD presets are not a factor. I do not own a POD with a Variax port. I'm using the USB to MIDI adapter that came with the guitar.
  • The mag pickups are not mixed in.
  • I am not hearing the strings vibrating on the guitar.

The altered tunings are no longer suppressing the actual string pitch.

 

I hope they find a fix for this soon. The tuning function is one of the main reasons that I bought the Variax.

 

-Rob

One of the things I am concerned about is that I just bought a JTV-69 from Sweetwater. They have a 30 day "hassle free" return policy. If Line 6 takes their sweet time to address this question, and does not fix it,and I can not return the guitar to Sweetwater - I will not be a happy camper! They have to know this is a real problem. To be honest, the alternate tunings, and to a lesser degree, the models are why I bought this guitar. If these features are "flakey", then the guitar with just the magnetic pickups are, IMHO, not worth the $1,400 price tag. Oh well, enough a rant. I will just keep a positive attitude about it. I have found Hugo, in Line 6 support, has been very good so far.


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#66 robdog03

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 09:58 AM

Rob - I encourage you to take your entire post above, copy it and paste it into a new Support Ticket. Then call Line 6 support - wait if you have to. Then ask for Hugo. He is attempting to solve this for me. The more input he has the better. Your description of this is good!

 

Ticket created. I'll try to call them next week. I'll be out of town for part of the week, so I might not be able to follow up right away.

 

-Rob


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#67 phil_m

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:46 PM

For what it's worth, I don't think this issue is a bug in the sense that it's something inherent to the firmware. I double-checked mine today using the 1/4" out and the VDI connection, and I heard no ghost notes when in alternate tunings.

 

One thing to double-check if using the VDI connection is to make sure that the inputs to your tone are not set to Variax Mags anywhere. Other than that, this did happen to a few people with older firmware, too. I suspect you may need to try re-installing the firmware a few times. It would probably be good to roll back to an earlier version and then re-install 2.0.


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#68 spmartin

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:56 PM

For what it's worth, I don't think this issue is a bug in the sense that it's something inherent to the firmware. I double-checked mine today using the 1/4" out and the VDI connection, and I heard no ghost notes when in alternate tunings.

 

One thing to double-check if using the VDI connection is to make sure that the inputs to your tone are not set to Variax Mags anywhere. Other than that, this did happen to a few people with older firmware, too. I suspect you may need to try re-installing the firmware a few times. It would probably be good to roll back to an earlier version and then re-install 2.0.

I beg to disagree, at least with my guitar. Today, I went back and flashed the guitar with Firmware Version 1.70. Checked and recorded all the open strings with just the magnetic pickups. That always sounds perfect, so I'm going to not include it. Then, I put it in piezo mode, tuning wheel set to "Standard" tuning. All strings sounded fine. Went then to DADGAD, Blues G, Open A. (just 3 of the now reset factory alt. tunings) All of the alternate tunings but "Standard" has screwy ghost notes on some strings.

The same was exactly true when I then flashed it up to 1.81, then 2.0. I even did 2.0 twice in a row as recommended by a tech at Line 6. 

My thinking is that if it were a bad piezo pickup, the Standard alt. tuning setting would also display bad overtones. Also, the overtones would be consistently bad on the same strings. This does not happen.

My guess is that it is probably a bad cpu board. If it was just the software (firmware) then all JTV users would be experiencing the same problems. This does not seem to be true. So, I could be totally full of s**t, but that's my current view. I do so hope Line 6 has their best minds working overtime on this. I want this guitar to work the way it was intended to!!


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#69 phil_m

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:02 PM

I beg to disagree, at least with my guitar.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't understand... Beg to disagree with what?

 

All I was saying is that it doesn't seem to be an issue that's a bug in the firmware in that it's happening to everyone. I'm not saying that what you're experiencing isn't an issue. It certainly is. It just seems like it's something may need to be dealt with in the way of a trip to a service center.


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#70 spmartin

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:12 PM

I did not mean to be dis-agreeable! I guess I was responding to the last part of your statement that had to do with fixing it by reinstalling the firmware, or rolling it back. I have not seen that work on my guitar, and have heard that it did not work for some other folks. Let's just hope it's fixed soon. Thanks for your understanding. My brain is a bit fuzzy, as it's late where I am. I should only type these when I have my full faculties available!


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#71 jefflynyrd

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 04:40 AM

As I don't mess around much with alt tunings I didn't think much about this issue... Hell, I have a hard enough time playing my guitar in standard tuning... lol. But I just tried mine out and... bam, there it is. My high e string and b string are the ones I mainly hear it on... I'm going to put a ticket in myself.


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#72 jefflynyrd

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:55 AM

I'm thinking, that the guitar sounds soooo good (all but the !2 strings) in standard tuning, that a large amount of players (like myself) stay in standard tuning, that they might not realize that their guitars are having this issue?


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#73 Kcharriq

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:52 AM

I've done more experimenting. I can hear it very pronounced through the DT25. I hear it less when I play through a Fender Twin.

I've tried recording it (with a microphone) and when I play it back I can't hear it.

It is worse on strings 1-3 than 4-6.

 

I go back and forth on if this is a HW issue or a SW problem.

Guitar sounds fine in normal mode, so unless there is a problem with one of the analog front end filters or a bad ground I'm not convinced it's the HW.

 

The sound appears to be the original (normal mode) tone mixed with the alternate tone. If I get time I might try running a spectrum analyzer to see what frequencies we're getting.


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#74 jefflynyrd

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:57 AM

Okay... I recorded it and very, very much to my surprise, the ghost note that I WAS hearing totally disappeared in the recording. This means, as the Realzap has stated before, that the 'ghost' note is coming acoustically from the guitar to my ears and NOT thru my keyboard amp. I am astonished! The natural resonance in the actual guitar pushes the note that pronounced to my ears! :o 


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#75 spmartin

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:57 AM

I've done more experimenting. I can hear it very pronounced through the DT25. I hear it less when I play through a Fender Twin.

I've tried recording it (with a microphone) and when I play it back I can't hear it.

It is worse on strings 1-3 than 4-6.

 

I go back and forth on if this is a HW issue or a SW problem.

Guitar sounds fine in normal mode, so unless there is a problem with one of the analog front end filters or a bad ground I'm not convinced it's the HW.

 

The sound appears to be the original (normal mode) tone mixed with the alternate tone. If I get time I might try running a spectrum analyzer to see what frequencies we're getting.

Please run the spectrum analysis!! This would be helpful to Line 6 also. I'm sure they have the equipment in house, but still. It's more proof that there is a real issue.


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#76 spmartin

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:59 AM

Okay... I recorded it and very, very much to my surprise, the ghost note that I WAS hearing totally disappeared in the recording. This means, as the Realzap has stated before, that the 'ghost' note is coming acoustically from the guitar to my ears and NOT thru my keyboard amp. I am astonished! The natural resonance in the actual guitar pushes the note that pronounced to my ears! :o 

Oh, that is so strange. I recorded the guitar through a digital interface (Apogee Jam) directly into Garageband. The ghost sounds are loud and clear. This is using no magnetic pickups at all. What a mystery!! We might have to acknowledge that there is more than one phenomenon happening.


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#77 Kcharriq

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:35 AM

Okay... I recorded it and very, very much to my surprise, the ghost note that I WAS hearing totally disappeared in the recording. This means, as the Realzap has stated before, that the 'ghost' note is coming acoustically from the guitar to my ears and NOT thru my keyboard amp. I am astonished! The natural resonance in the actual guitar pushes the note that pronounced to my ears! :o 

have someone else pluck the note while you are a distance away and just listening to the speaker. Also try the headphone idea.


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#78 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:37 AM

It's entirely possible that he just isn't having this problem...

I don't have it... but i do believe that others do...

i tend to think that the update reveals faults in the internals, because it's utilizing more resources...

my unfounded, unscientific, and pure guess.. is that this will ultimately prove to be a hardware issue affecting some but not all.

 

there are always going to be those that pickup on the real vibrations vs the modeled tunings...

that's why people suggest doing a direct recording to eliminate that possibility.


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#79 broker2

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:26 AM

I had ghost note before when i was in the 1.7 when i turned the amp. up they went away now when i upgraded to the hd2 i hear ghost note on the high e string in all alt. tunings and i cant get rid of it no matter how loud the amp. is.Should i reflash the hd2 or wait and see if L6 can fix the problem. thanks cal.


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#80 dkemusic

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:39 AM

I think most people are hearing the sounds of the actual strings, which are surprising loud for an electric guitar, but some are obviously having a genuine problem if it can still be heard in a direct recording.  There have been times I'd swear I hear ghost notes with my JTV59 but I haven't bothered to record it, other times I'm sure it IS the acoustic sound of the strings.  I will say my JTV59 seems way more resonate (I can hear the strings above the amp) than either my Gibson SG, or Variax 700.

 

Dan 


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