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Variax Ghost Notes?


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#101 broker2

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:25 AM

hi guys about the ghost notes in alt. tuning i only hear them on the high e and b strings.  cal


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#102 guitarno

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:50 AM

   Yeah, it seems that most people notice it more on the top 2 strings. Seems to me to be worse on some combinations of guitar models & tunings. There's a lot of combinations of those 2 options, so I haven't tried all combinations yet. Doesn't seem to be a problem for me on Drop-D tuning, regardless of which model I use, but that tuning only changes the bottom E string. DADGAD tuning seems to be a problem with a lot of models - maybe all of them. Still trying them all out.


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#103 spmartin

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:37 PM

   Yeah, it seems that most people notice it more on the top 2 strings. Seems to me to be worse on some combinations of guitar models & tunings. There's a lot of combinations of those 2 options, so I haven't tried all combinations yet. Doesn't seem to be a problem for me on Drop-D tuning, regardless of which model I use, but that tuning only changes the bottom E string. DADGAD tuning seems to be a problem with a lot of models - maybe all of them. Still trying them all out.

I don't know if you're up for it, but documenting what you find as you go through the various models and alt. tunings might be helpful to forum members and Line6.


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#104 guitarno

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:05 PM

Well, I don't know how much time it would take to go through all the combinations of models & tunings, but I can give it a try. So far I have been bouncing around a lot and not checking things systematically. I'll try to go through things a little more thoroughly and jot down notes on which combinations I find problematic.


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#105 robdog03

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:14 PM

I have a Godin Multiac nylon with synth access, and a Roland guitar synth. I'm very familiar with the phenomenon of hearing the acoustic sound of the strings while the synth is playing a different note or tone. That's not the problem with my Variax.

 

With my JTV-59, the tunings worked perfectly when I first got it, and also after the 2.0 FW update.

 

The problem started when I edited one of the tunings, which I had never done before.

 

Before I did that, I only heard the altered note in the monitors or headphones. I had played the guitar quite a bit in BLUES G and BARITONE, so I have a good sense of how it sounds and feels; that was what motivated me to try tweaking a tuning. :)

 

As soon as I downloaded the edited tuning, I began hearing both the altered note from the tuning and the actual string note -- on ALL tunings, including factory ones that I had not changed. So with my Variax, at least, there was a very specific trigger event.

 

I think it's a software bug that is only triggered under certain circumstances (or combinations of circumstances).

 

Some people don't encounter it at all. Others experience it on multiple FW versions, with both the original and the "HD" models. To me, that sounds like the bug is not in the actual guitar models.

 

My guess is that the bug is in the tuning algorithms, which are not necessarily updated in any given FW version. Another possibility is that the bug is in the routines that read and write the tuning data to/from the non-volatile memory in the guitar.

 

My $0.02.

 

-Rob


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#106 herimusic

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:06 AM

That makes totally sense, Rob!

 

I remember I was creating a new Alt Tuning for the first time ever (for the Acoustic Models so that I can play it in Standard Tuning because i Drop Tune the guitar physically...) the same time I experienced those Ghost Notes for the first time :o  I am 100% sure with this!

That could be the answer because I never heard it befor because that was the first time i edited Alt Tuning in the Workbench Software!

 

 

So, Line6, please read the Thread and do something...  B)

 

 

P.S.:  I tried several other Ethernet cables as stated above and it didn't work for me  :(


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#107 spmartin

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:41 PM

Just to give you an update on ghost notes. I spoke for the second time today with Hugo at Line 6. He has listened to recordings I have provided to him that are done directly into Garageband using a digital interface (Apogee MiC).

I played in order:

1. six strings with magnetic pickups (sounds fine)
2. six strings with piezo pickup in Standard tuning (sounds fine)
3. six strings with piezo pickup in DADGAD (3 ghost notes)
4 six strings with piezo pickup in Blues G (2 ghost notes, High B, E)

 

He acknowledged that he and his team are aware of the issue, i.e. it is REAL. He said he is meeting with his product specialist team on Thursday, where they will discuss this issue. I will reconnect with him on Friday, and see what they have discussed and maybe get some potential remedies. Cross your fingers!

 

BTW, I just remembered. Hugo said that he and his team read the forum and gather good information about problems like ours. So, just know that the posts on here are helpful to them in their quest to solve problems.


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#108 corvay

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:44 PM

I noticed the other day I was having some tuning problems too. So I started reading this thread, it also seemed to have occurred after I had creating a couple of extra custom presets with their own tuning.

 

I had a bit of a play around in workbench tonight and noticed my drop D tuning had dropped to the high e string. A bit strange so I fixed the patch and uploaded, but I was still having problems. looking around I clicked on the parallel pitch something I'd played with at the same time trying out 6 string versions of the twelve string models and I noticed something unusual. Even though the Parallel pitch was switched off all my models seemed to pitch settings, clearing this then uploading solved the problem. So I then created an "empty" pitch preset and cleared every 6 string guitar. Problem solved, tuning works great again. 

 

I suspect like me most people don't look at the parallel pitch tab much for the non 12 strings, especially with it being disabled. So maybe worth checking just in case it wasn't a one off.


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#109 robdog03

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:43 PM

I have an open ticket on this issue. Hugo asked for a recording, and for additional details about the configuration and sequence of events. I provided those yesterday.

 

Hugo noted that he was not able to replicate the problem using the virtual capo function. From the discussion here, it sounds like Workbench HD might be a common factor.

 

Sounds like they're working on it....

 

-Rob


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#110 broker2

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:52 AM

Anybody having ghost note problems on the JTV 89F or problems on the models .I am interested in buying this model and would like to know if anybody are having any problems with it .Thanks for your help  cal.


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#111 jayson2

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:57 PM

So if I'm understanding this correctly, it seems that these ghost notes are only occurring if you change one of the preset tunings on the alt tuning wheel with the WB software? Anyone have any ghost note problems after saving an alternate tuned guitar to a position on the model dial?

Cheers,

jayson
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#112 spmartin

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

So if I'm understanding this correctly, it seems that these ghost notes are only occurring if you change one of the preset tunings on the alt tuning wheel with the WB software? Anyone have any ghost note problems after saving an alternate tuned guitar to a position on the model dial?

Cheers,

jayson

Jayson,

It is my understanding that we really don't know how or why the ghost notes are appearing. We are in the stage where a lot of folks are sharing their experiences, but there has not been a conclusive cause discovered yet.

 

As an update on my particular solution, today tech support from Line 6 said that upon reviewing my particular information and recordings, they felt that I had a hardware problem. They suggested that I send my guitar to a service center to be examined and fixed. 

 

I know some folks on the forum have suggested it might be a software problem, and for some it may be. We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out after Line 6 has had a chance to review a number of units that are displaying pretty much the same phenomenon. It would be interesting to know if other guitars (by other manufacturers, i.e. Parker, PRS, Gibson, Music Man, Godin etc.) with the same or different piezo pickups experience the same problem in a percentage of their guitars. That should be fairly easy information to gather.


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#113 hurghanico

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:14 AM

...Line 6 said that upon reviewing my particular information and recordings, they felt that I had a hardware problem. They suggested that I send my guitar to a service center to be examined and fixed. 

 

....I know some folks on the forum have suggested it might be a software problem, and for some it may be. We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out after Line 6 has had a chance to review a number of units that are displaying pretty much the same phenomenon...

 

in the case came out that it is a hardware problem it would be helpful for future buyers to know how to recognize the defective JTV guitars, perhaps based on a certain range of serial numbers, in order to not buy one of those..


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#114 silverhead

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:04 AM

...

 

As an update on my particular solution, today tech support from Line 6 said that upon reviewing my particular information and recordings, they felt that I had a hardware problem. They suggested that I send my guitar to a service center to be examined and fixed. 

 

I know some folks on the forum have suggested it might be a software problem,.....

 

Glad to hear that progress is being made on this. I was one who suggested it sounded like a software problem; seems we can put that theory to bed now. Thanks for posting this update. It's probably very good news for you  - means returning and replacing your guitar where you bought it (I understand that option is still available to you) might be quicker and easier than taking it in for Line 6 servicing. 

 

Again, good luck with this. I'm sure you will absolutely love your JTV in the end.


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#115 guitarno

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:35 AM

   Glad to hear that you got some answer, even though that means it might have to go out for repairs. I also filled out a support ticket and sent in some audio. I haven't heard back from them yet. In my case it seemed that it was not easy to capture the issue in a recording. You could hear the extraneous notes on some tunings but at a very slight volume, it wasn't as apparent as it was in the room. There may have been a number of dynamics going on, possibly some resonances in the guitar, or sympathetic vibrations caused by the altered tuned notes re-energizing the strings on the guitar causing a kind of feedback loop that made it seem more apparent accousticly that what you would expect. It suprisingly didn't nearly as apparent in the recordings, but it was there.

 

   It is a somewhat sporadic problem for me, sometimes it has been an issue, and sometimes hardly, or not noticable. I'll have to wait to see what they recommend in my case.


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#116 spmartin

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:43 AM

Because of the time it will take for Line 6 to receive, diagnose, fix and return the guitar to me - I will probably just send mine back to Sweetwater and have them replace it.  My Sweetwater rep has been stellar to work with. I can't see myself ever shopping anywhere else for new gear.


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#117 TheRealZap

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:47 AM

I'd also heartily endorse sweetwater..... for those things that have the same price anywhere....

i'm still down for a deal from a competitor here and there... but buy from sweetwater if all else is equal! 

 

Because of the time it will take for Line 6 to receive, diagnose, fix and return the guitar to me - I will probably just send mine back to Sweetwater and have them replace it.  My Sweetwater rep has been stellar to work with. I can't see myself ever shopping anywhere else for new gear.


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#118 spmartin

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:02 AM

I'd also heartily endorse sweetwater..... for those things that have the same price anywhere....

i'm still down for a deal from a competitor here and there... but buy from sweetwater if all else is equal! 

For me, the reps I have spoken to have always been friendly and knowledgeable. Hard combination to beat. Add to that their FREE 1 year extension on original warranties - well, that's hard to top. I wish I could become a "Prime" member like I am with Amazon! Then I could get free two day shipping!!


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#119 TheRealZap

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:07 AM

LOVE amazon prime too! that's one of those competitors that i'll swing to for the right deal.

 

For me, the reps I have spoken to have always been friendly and knowledgeable. Hard combination to beat. Add to that their FREE 1 year extension on original warranties - well, that's hard to top. I wish I could become a "Prime" member like I am with Amazon! Then I could get free two day shipping!!


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#120 spmartin

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:09 AM

LOVE amazon prime too! that's one of those competitors that i'll swing to for the right deal.

Hey, I just noticed, you're right below me geographically. I'm in Lexington, VA.


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