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Wireless Floorboard? Goal = No Cables On Stage?

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#1 NinoScholz

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 04:19 PM

Ive searched all over for this and found nothing useful. Has anyone successfully replaced their rj45 foot controller cable with a wireless solution? 

 

In other words, i want a wireless fbv shortboard. Is there a simple solution?


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#2 TheRealZap

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 04:49 PM

no simple solution... the FBV gets power through that RJ45... so for the most part wireless is not practical, and certainly not simple.


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#3 NinoScholz

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:12 PM

^^^ you know what? I didn't even think about the power factor at all. Great point. Not gonna happen then!! thanks for the response. Probably better that I can't start going down that rabbit hole anyway.


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#4 fflbrgst

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:30 AM

I've never seen any PRO guitarist with a wireless pedal/control system.   As TheRealZap mentions, power is the first consideration.  Much easier to run the cable(s) along the front of the stage, around the side and up to the amp.


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#5 willvermeer

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 02:04 AM

To me , ending this topic is not good enough. I use a desktop(bean) pod in a live situation and often our set is plugged into an external PA. Our set cannot be position in the venue because it is not possible to lead the rj45 through the crowd. So now we are forced to connect at one side of the stage. If line 6 would provide a wireless solution using penlights AA for powering the floorboard i would definitly be interested in purchasing this.

 

www.ein-prosit.nl


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#6 broadwood

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:20 AM

I don't see why this is not possible, a little tricky perhaps but possible. It shouldn't be a problem to provide power externally to the FBV via adapter, even batteries. then its just a point of converting the signal (prob from rs232 or some other protocol) to network protocol, flying through wireless then converting back the other end.


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#7 NinoScholz

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:54 AM

Yeah i'd agree it certainly can be done. Was hoping for an easy solution, as in someone selling a transmitter/receiver for $30 or something. Line 6 - you should be seeing $$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

then again, it's one more thing to go wrong at the gig.


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#8 phil_m

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:39 AM

I think that the floorboards are essentially using a MIDI protocol, or something very close to it, but whether or not it could easily be sent wireless, I don't know. I saw this wireless MIDI setup the other day. Pretty darn pricey: http://www.sweetwate.../MIDIjetProUSB/


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#9 fflbrgst

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:11 AM

Most 'decent' wireless systems sell starting for about $300 per set  Then add the cost of conversion of the MIDI to network protocol (and back), you're probably looking at a $500 (retail) solution.

 

As I've said before, I've never seen a pro guitarist use a wireless system from guitar to pedalboard, nor from pedalboard to amp/PA - the pedalboard is always hard-wired because batteries wear out and fail at the most-inconvenient time.  I'm sure Line 6 has looked at this but decided that the number of sales would not justify the cost to develop and manufacture the system.


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#10 broadwood

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:45 AM

I'm currently investigating a mod to switch two amps. line6 are not being very helpful at all and unless they are willing to impart info on connections and protocols theres not a lot can be done with this or any other mod ideas :0( Shame on Line 6!

Ive never had problems getting info from any other amp manufacturer...


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#11 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:54 AM

google has some info: http://www.instructa...pider-Amp-Hack/

 

http://www.vlotech.nl/?q=node/272

 

looks like 2 pairs are power and the other pairs are transmit/receive.


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#12 fflbrgst

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:58 AM

It's a liability thing.  If you (or someone) gets hurt, or you wreck your amps, who's going to get blamed.  Lawyers are taking over the world.


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#13 broadwood

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 03:00 AM

Yeah I guess ....
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#14 istlota

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 04:03 AM

Woke up early this Sunday morning, browsing the Net because I can't get back to sleep, and ran across this thread. My thoughts ...

 

1) Being an retired network engineer, I cringe inwardly when someone says something is not possible or practical just because it has never been done before. This world is full of engineers whose income depends upon their being able to figure out how to do what has never been done before.

 

2) Any reasonable bright high school kid with a pair of wire cutters, a soldering iron, and access to google.com can figure out how to use his lunch money to buy the parts from Radio Shack necessary to route power from a couple of AAs thru a couple of pins on a RJ-45 cable. If you can't figure it out, ask one of your kids, or their friends, for technical assistance.

 

3) As someone else mentioned, there are already OEM boxes out there like the one Sweetwarer sells. But at a price of $450? I hate capitalism and everything it stands for. Here in America, we slap paint on the fatted calf of filthy lucre, change its name to capitalism, and use that glorious notion to justify murdering thousands of Muslims with unmanned drones to defend the right of BP and Royal Dutch Shell execs to continue earning their multi-million dollar bonuses. But I digress ...

 

4) There is also a Way to solve the problem without hiring your kid or his friends for their technical assistance:

  1. MIDI cable a LINE 6 amp to one computer which does WiFI.
  2. MIDI cable a 2nd computer which does WiFi to a FBX Express pedal.
  3. Route MIDI signals between the two computers over WiFi. Apple OS X has features that can do this. There is Open Source software call rtpMIDI which does the same thing for Windows.

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#15 fflbrgst

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:18 AM

 

4) There is also a Way to solve the problem without hiring your kid or his friends for their technical assistance:

  1. MIDI cable a LINE 6 amp to one computer which does WiFI.
  2. MIDI cable a 2nd computer which does WiFi to a FBX Express pedal.
  3. Route MIDI signals between the two computers over WiFi. Apple OS X has features that can do this. There is Open Source software call rtpMIDI which does the same thing for Windows.

 

 

The only way for a Line 6 amp to 'talk' to a computer is via an FBV pedal, and it's not 'MIDI', is is the Line 6 system, however the signals can be used for MIDI control by using Line 6 Control software.

As you are proposiing hooking up the FBV pedal to a computer, it's not wireless ....  might as well just run the cable to your amp, eliminate the 2 computers, extra FBV, extra cable ...


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#16 TheRealZap

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:56 AM

sometimes you have to "play to the audience" in front of you...

wasn't exactly teaching advanced engineering...

for the average person... this is not do-able....

i'm sure theoretically i could eat cheese on mars...

but in reality my skill set is a bit more limited.

if one of those engineers you refer to figure it out...

then you've certainly got an audience here.

 

 Being an retired network engineer, I cringe inwardly when someone says something is not possible or practical just because it has never been done before. This world is full of engineers whose income depends upon their being able to figure out how to do what has never been done before.


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#17 BigChas52

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:51 AM

At the end of the day, I'm sure Line 6 could create a wireless FBV system if they were so inclined.  I'm sure they could adapt their current wireless instrument/mic technology.  Since 2-way communications are involved, it would probably be expensive.

 

The question is whether they could do it economically enough to make it marketable.  The second question is "could Line 6 sell enough to make it profitable?"

 

I imagine the answers to both of these questions are "no" and "no"


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#18 NinoScholz

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:03 AM

At the end of the day, I'm sure Line 6 could create a wireless FBV system if they were so inclined.  I'm sure they could adapt their current wireless instrument/mic technology.  Since 2-way communications are involved, it would probably be expensive.

 

The question is whether they could do it economically enough to make it marketable.  The second question is "could Line 6 sell enough to make it profitable?"

 

I imagine the answers to both of these questions are "no" and "no"

 

I think this sums it up for me - makes sense. Its already a proprietary product (mostly), then who wants to go wireless among the current owners?

 

probably not a huge consumer base for that. Frankly, i should have thought more about it before i posted. At this point it just sounds like more trouble than it's worth! Right now the RJ-45 is the only cable on stage for me - not bad really.


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#19 istlota

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:56 AM

The only way for a Line 6 amp to 'talk' to a computer is via an FBV pedal, and it's not 'MIDI', is is the Line 6 system, however the signals can be used for MIDI control by using Line 6 Control software.

As you are proposiing hooking up the FBV pedal to a computer, it's not wireless ....  might as well just run the cable to your amp, eliminate the 2 computers, extra FBV, extra cable ...

 

The FBV MK II has, in addition to the RJ45 jack, a _standard_ USB port. Even more important to this discussion, that _standard_ USB interface talks MIDI. Which means the FBV can talk MIDI [directly or indirectly] to any other MIDI device. As a matter of fact, as I type this right now, I have the USB port of my FBV MK II cabled to one of the USB ports on my Macbook and am using an open source diagnostic program called MIDI Monitor [http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/] to capture and decode MIDI messages from my FBV on my Mac. And I am using the same program to capture and decode MIDI messages from my _standard_ USB MIDI attached Peavey VIP amp. It would be a trivial issue to route MIDI msgs between the FBV and VIP and there are programs out there which can perform that MIDI thru function for you. I use the FBV's _standard_ USB MIDI interface to control my DAW [Ableton Live]. And, as mentioned in my previous posts, there are also programs out there which will route MIDI between two WIFI computers.

 

Since Line 6 sells the FBV with a _standard_ USB MIDI port, and since there are people like me who are using the FBV to control non-Line 6 MIDI products, I assumed that Line 6's engineers were bright enough to have designed their amps to be controlled by the FBV's _standard_ USB MIDI.

 

If that is not the case, if Line 6 is using the FBV's _nonstandard_ RJ45 interface to control their amps, that is just a really dumb engineering decision which, again, highlights how and why capitalism is ruining Corporate America. I can just imagine being a fly on the wall during a Line 6 strategy meeting while some bean counter got out his calculator and figured out how many pennies they could save by using the _nonstandard_ RJ45 port to control their amps.

 

Such abuses are best remedied by replacing your Line 6 amp with a better engineered one that uses a _standard_ MIDI interface. My Peavey VIP 2 amp talks MIDI thru a _standard_ USB MIDI port [same port used by the FBV], and only cost $200 --- less than half the price of Sweetwater's wireless MIDI solution. Those who are realy hurting for a wireless MIDI solution might look into using a VIP with the FBV. I am currently working on coding a open source app [for my personal use] to control the VIP with a FBV. I had not previously considered making it wireless compatible --- but this exchange has nudged me in that direction for no other reason than to prove a few coppertops wrong and, perhaps, convince a few others to wake up and take the red pill.

 

"Trinity: I know why you're here, Neo. I know what you've been doing... why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by your computer. You're looking for him. I know because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn't really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us, Neo. It's the question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did.

Neo: What is the Matrix?

Trinity: The answer is out there, Neo, and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to."


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#20 fflbrgst

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:26 AM

islota - not sure what you are getting at (except you seem to have some real background issues with 'corporate america' and 'capitalism') - yes, it could be done, with multiple devices, computers, software, etc, but what's the point?  Why run all that instead of a simple RJ45 cable to the amp?  telling users to switch amps is not helping anyone.  Do you even have a Line 6 amp?


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#21 phil_m

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:14 AM

If that is not the case, if Line 6 is using the FBV's _nonstandard_ RJ45 interface to control their amps, that is just a really dumb engineering decision which, again, highlights how and why capitalism is ruining Corporate America. I can just imagine being a fly on the wall during a Line 6 strategy meeting while some bean counter got out his calculator and figured out how many pennies they could save by using the _nonstandard_ RJ45 port to control their amps.

 

What do you mean by "non-standard" RJ-45 port? They are regular old RJ-45 connectors... They're just using them to send their own communication protocol. I don't see what's so bad about this. A lot of Line 6 amps also have MIDI ports, so if you want to use some other third-party controller, you certainly could.

 

I don't see how you're taking this and turning it into a rant about the evils of Corporate America.


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#22 istlota

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:48 AM

What do you mean by "non-standard" RJ-45 port? They are regular old RJ-45 connectors... They're just using them to send their own communication protocol. I don't see what's so bad about this. A lot of Line 6 amps also have MIDI ports, so if you want to use some other third-party controller, you certainly could.

 

I don't see how you're taking this and turning it into a rant about the evils of Corporate America.

 

Everyone, even our WarMonger-In-Chief [Mein Fuhrer Obama], knows that Corporate America is evil. Yes, evil. That adjective accurately describes an entity which would place profit above human life --- above love, truth, and justice. Sadly, most of my fellow Americans are no more than what the Matrix movies correctly portrays as a Coppertop --- a good slave, living in a prison that you cannot see or touch or taste or smell, existing symbolically as a Duracall Coppertop battery --- existing only to empower the Matrix by either their silent or active consent.

 

Ah, but a Coppertop dares not allow other slaves to wake up, take the red pill, and say [gasp ... in public!] as I do every day of my life that ...

 

The Emperor Has No Clothes!

 

Years, no decades, I have watched and I have seen America --- the country of my birth --- turning more and more into little more than a tool by which the _evil_ Corporate America destroys all that is good and righteous in this world. You have not yet admitted it, but even you know perfectly well that there is something fundamentally _evil_ with an entity which would create pretend money out of thin air, con the coppertops into working their entire lives and exchanging all that real wealth [labor] for their worthless fiat money, and then using that stolen wealth to buy our politicians [Obama, Bush (daddy and son), Clinton (husband and wife)].

 

Being bought and paid for by the campaign donations of the _evil_ Corporate America, our sellout elected leaders then proceed to kill, torture, displace, starve, and poison the Children of Zion.

 

Indefintely detaining innocent people for years in torture chambers like Gitmo Bay --- denying those poor souls even the dignity of taking their own lives to escape the tyranny of the Evil One.

 

And chasing those of us who wake up and take the Red Pill all over the planet [Snowden, Assange] to Shut Us Up. Some of us, it kills [Swartz, Hastings]. Others it imprisons [Manning, Hammond].

 

But We Will Not Shut Up! A long as We have breath in our bodies ... As Long As One of Us is Still Alive ... We Will Fight For Zion!

 

If that means making it impossible for Coppertops like you to find anyplace --- not even on the Internet -- to deny that 'there is no spoon' ...

 

So Be It.

 

The Matrix ... do you want to know what it is?


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#23 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:32 PM

I fail to see how ranting douchebaggery is going to change the equation.

 

anigif_enhanced-buzz-28764-1378941389-2.


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#24 phil_m

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:59 PM

Ah, but a Coppertop dares not allow other slaves to wake up, take the red pill, and say [gasp ... in public!] as I do every day of my life that ...

 

The Emperor Has No Clothes!

 

 

 

peering%2Bsam%2Bwhat%2Bis%2Bthis%2BI%2Bd


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#25 fflbrgst

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:40 AM

Guess we need a moderator on this forum!


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#26 radatats

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:51 AM

Apparently I have reached my quota of negative comments for the day or I would have voted the above rant down.  Can we just stick to guitar/amp/music issues PLEASE? I get enough political stuff everywhere else...


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#27 NinoScholz

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:28 AM

Sorry for starting an apparent sh*t storm!!

 

Bad idea!! Wireless bad! Cables good!

 

honestly, i dont think i'd want another wireless to deal with after considering all this. 1 cable on stage i can handle. Beats 4 for pedal board, effects send, effects return, footswitch, etc. At one point i had 5 going back and forth due to dual amp set up.

 

now with the pod, mesa 50/50, and splawn cab, i have ONE for the controller. I'll take it


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#28 TheRealZap

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:29 AM

no reason to be sorry, was a legit and welcome question...

sometimes these things just go off the rails on their own....

in any case no fault of yours.

 

Sorry for starting an apparent sh*t storm!!

 

Bad idea!! Wireless bad! Cables good!

 

honestly, i dont think i'd want another wireless to deal with after considering all this. 1 cable on stage i can handle. Beats 4 for pedal board, effects send, effects return, footswitch, etc. At one point i had 5 going back and forth due to dual amp set up.

 

now with the pod, mesa 50/50, and splawn cab, i have ONE for the controller. I'll take it


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