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Linking Speakers Together, No Mixer


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#1 federalhog

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:05 AM

I tried an experiment last night. Just plugged my Mic Mechanic pedal into channel 2 of my L3T and guitar > channel 1. 

 

Result. Sounds outstanding. I'm not home now, so I'm not able to try this now. But I'm wondering if you can just link another speaker without the mixer?


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#2 litesnsirens

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:20 AM

If you link another line 6 L(3or 2)t speaker via the line 6 link can use all 4 channels (2 in each speaker). You have the choice of mono which plays everything out of both speakers or stereo in which the channels get divided between the two speakers. With an L(3or2)m you would just get the 2 channels of the single mixer but the audio fom that mixer will be fed to the other speaker in either mono or stereo.
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#3 jaminjimlp

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:42 PM

Here is something... http://l6c.scdn.line...ile_r15788.jpegAttached File  image.jpg   163.88KB   0 downloads
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May you be blessed and our Lord Jesus keep you!!!


#4 federalhog

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

I don't know much about this stuff. I have guiar into channel 1 and vocal into channel 2 of the L3T and the L6 out > L2T L6 in. I have the L3T set to mono and sounds great, but when I switch to stereo the guitar volume drops. I'm sure there's a valid explanation for this, I just don't know. 


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#5 federalhog

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:36 PM

The guitar volume is dropping because I'm using the acoustic modeling effect. I use it almost all the way down but it's engaged usually. In stereo mode you can't use the modeling function for some reason. I tried the dual cable method in the picture you posted too, didn't notice any difference. 


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#6 RonMarton

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:24 PM

Just to set your mind at rest, federalhog...

 

There's absolutely no way your experimenting with different connections (be they inputs and/or Line 6 Linking between your two StageSource speakers) can cause any damage that won't be "reset" upon your next switch off, ...so I reckon you should spend as much time as you can just "playing around" with every combination and control setting that you can find, exactly as you've started doing.

 

You'll amaze yourself with

  1. How fast and how easily the system actually "trains" its operator, regardless of the absence of any prior knowledge and
  2. The staggering amount of mixing and effects power you own, to the extent that (like many other StageSource owners) you may never again need to haul an external mixer from gig to gig. 

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#7 federalhog

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:21 AM

Yeah it's just the stereo thing that perplexes me. But just the L2T as a monitor, connected to the L3T as my main speaker sounds unreal. No mixer. It actually sounds better to me than with the mixer. 


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#8 litesnsirens

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 10:59 AM

Have you tried running another cable from the L6 link out of the L2t back the Line 6 Link in of the L3t?  So that both speakers can fully talk to each other.  Above you stated that you only have the L6 link going from the L3t to the L2t.  

 

This will also let you use the two input channels from the L2t and it will act as a single 4 channel mixer with EQ and effects. Plus of course then you also get a pair of stereo RCA inputs on each speaker for a total of 2 and another combi line input on each speaker.

 

I think the reason the volume might be dropping is because when you are in mono and plugged into only one channel the signal will go to both speakers, when you switch to stereo, it's going to just go to one.  Check and see if the master volumes on both are at the centre detent 12:00 position.  Are you just plugging in an acoustic guitar?

 

I just did a quick test with my gear and confirmed that when you put these in stereo mode, Channel one only goes to the left speaker and channel 2 only goes to the right. I also noted that regarding the effects if you are in mono they always work in both speakers.  When you are in stereo for some reason some crazy things start to happen.  

 

SO both speakers in mono all 4 channels come out of both speakers.  If you have one speaker in mono and the other in stereo then the behaviour depends on mode of the speaker you are plugged into.  And again this is with L6 Link running both ways between both speakers with 2 cables.  So if speaker 1(L) is in stereo and speaker 2® is in mono, channel 1 of speaker 1 will only come out of speaker 1.  Channel 2 of Speaker 1 will only come out of speaker 2.  And, because speaker 2 is in mono.  Both channel 1 and channel 2 of speaker 2 will come out of both channels.

 

If both speakers are in stereo mode then as stated above channel 1 of both speakers comes out of speaker 1(L) and channel 2 of both speakers only comes out of speaker 2®.  Now when the speakers are in stereo mode only channel 2 effects controls the effects for both channels plugged into that speaker.  And the effects come out of both speakers so If you are in stereo and you are plugged into channel 1 and you add some reverb (from the reverb of channel 2) your main dry voice will come out of speaker 1 but the reverb will come out of speaker 1 and speaker 2.  The EQ works the same way, if you are in stereo mode the EQ on channel one does nothing and the EQ on channel 2 effects both Channel 1 and 2 of that speaker.

 

I wasn't able to test the acoustic modelling in stereo mode as I didn't have an acoustic electric handy and the effect is too subtle to hear an effect on a voice.

 

Hopefully this helps.

 

Kevin 


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#9 litesnsirens

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:12 AM

Oh sorry and the reason I was asking if you were just plugging an acoustic guitar in was because I was wondering what you needed stereo for, I was thinking maybe you have some kind of stereo effects processor for either your voice, your guitar or both.   If you can let me know exactly what you have I can maybe help you figure out the best way to configure your speakers.

 

ie, If you have a stereo guitar processor I would plug into both channels of speaker 2 from the processor and then have speaker 2 in stereo mode.  This will give you stereo effects and spatial wide sound for your guitar.  I would then have your vocal plugged into channel 1 or 2 of speaker 1 and have speaker 1 in mono so your voice comes evenly out of both speakers.  If it's the opposite and you are just plugging an acoustic guitar directly into channel 1 make use of the acoustic modelling but have a stereo vocal processor, I would plug the vocals into channel 1 and 2 of speaker two and again have speaker 1 in mono so guitar comes out of both speakers and speaker 2 in stereo so you get stereo effects from your vocal processor.


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#10 RonMarton

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:19 PM

That great advice is more of the typically thoughtful and helpful stuff we've come to expect from our "litesnsirens" man, Kevin...

 

I would just add that it's extremely rare for most of the audience at most of our venues to get ANY benefit at all from "stereo", as when our sound is "divided" like that, (supposedly for extra "definition", "ambience" or "width") nearly all of them seem to "miss out" on "the half" that's further from them.

 

It's been my experience, then, that the extra complication, time and effort (in both rigging and balancing for so-called "stereo") is often wasted... 

 

...the notable exceptions having been those rare gigs where I've been able to mic grand pianos (using my matched pair of Audix SCX25A mics, battery phantom powered by a Deneke PS-2 into a pair of TBP12 wireless beltpacks, all carefully placed inside the grand) and/or string quartets and/or choral groups.

 

Significantly, those gigs have been either at huge indoor venues, or outdoors on an even larger scale. 


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#11 litesnsirens

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:39 PM

Ron, thanks for the vote of confidence, it's much appreciated.  On another note, I whole-heartedly agree on the stereo issue... I preach that exact same sentiment but I often get resistance.  If the speakers are fairly close together so that opposite sides of the audience can hear both speakers, and your stereo effects aren't two drastic I think you can get away with it.  Most of the time though I'm running everything right up the middle.  With this StageSource system though it makes it so easy to run stereo, that I've lately found myself putting maybe a 10% pan on the guitars try to create a bit of a sense that the guitar sound is coming from the player that's making it.  Same with the vocals, just the tiniest bit of space between them.  In both cases there's a healthy amount of signal coming out of both speakers because my settings are so slight.


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#12 federalhog

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:14 PM

Well the stereo doesn't seem to work. I think that whatever you have plugged into the right channel of whatever L3T or L2T is in stereo and whatever is on the left channel is mono. Also the acoustic modeling does not work when in stereo mode. I tried every configuration possible. Two cables running from L3T L6 Link to L2T. So I guess mono it is. I was just curious as to how it would sound basically. 


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#13 RonMarton

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:17 PM

...And that's yet more great information for federalhog and others, Kevin !  :)

 

...With this StageSource system though, it makes it so easy to run stereo...

 

Our combined "pooh-poohing" of so-called "stereo" for many gigs notwithstanding, maybe we should also emphasise just what a huge and matchlessly simple asset this Line 6 Link technology really is.

 

Even though most of our gigs are very unlikely to benefit from any attempt to project a "stereo image", there's no denying the huge increase in involvement and satisfaction that can arise from players being "enveloped" in a stereo-induced "wall of sound" when rehearsing with a view to developing that elusive "ensemble" feel , ..."tighter", "more together" and emotionally as well as physically "connected".

 

That's particularly true with regard to the likes of our rhythm section and our backing vocalists being better "informed" as to their placement with regard to the "front line" ...and vice versa.

 

So for many of us, (who rehearse in some shed, barn or garage) not only having the option of our entire (but incredibly compact) system being "turned around" to face us, (creating an instantly recallable and above all, consistent "all-enveloping sound environment") but also being able to do so QUICKLY, has benefits that cannot possibly be overstated. 


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#14 RonMarton

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:28 PM

...I think that whatever you have plugged into the right channel of whatever L3T or L2T is in stereo and whatever is on the left channel is mono. Also the acoustic modeling does not work when in stereo mode. I tried every configuration possible...

 

Simply NOT true, me old mate...

 

...And I fear we've misled you into concentrating on cable hook-ups. Sorry !

 

What you'll need to do is very carefully study the diagram on page 8 and the descriptions of each control on page 9 of your StageSource "Pilot's Guide".

 

 In particular this, with regard to the all-enabling "Stereo Link" switch:

 

"...When the Stereo Link switch is set to Dual Mono, each of the two channels retains its own settings. When connecting a stereo source to the two inputs, it can be convenient to have a single set of controls adjust both signals simultaneously. Placing this switch in Stereo Link mode disables Channel 1’s controls and allows Channel 2’s controls to affect both inputs. When using a single L3t, all stereo signals are summed to mono before being output to the speaker.

 

If a second L3t is connected via L6 LINK, stereo signals will be split automatically between the two speakers. See page 16 for more details.

 

Note that the Acoustic Modeling circuit applies to Channel 1 only, so it is disabled in Stereo Link mode..."

 

[My emphasis.]

 

That note regarding "Acoustic Modelling" applies to whichever of your StageSource enclosures you decide will (nominally) be your  "master", ...so I'm pretty sure we can still have that modelling applied to a "non linked" mono source that's plugged into Channel 1 of the "slave" enclosure that's in our "cross-linked" rig.

 

Another powerful "trick" is to bring a further stereo signal in to be "mixed under" or "over" a pair of fully featured mono inputs, by simply connecting it to a back panel's RCA inputs.

 

You'll soon get "the feel" for having a "stereo box" and a "mono box", (as Kevin suggested earlier) ...along with the incredible range of permutations and combinations that are possible. 

 

(Hence my earlier suggestion that you conduct long sessions of "playing around" with every control and combination that you can discover.)

 

Enjoy !


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#15 federalhog

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:55 PM

Amazing what you find out when you RTFM ha?  :D


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#16 nickinfrance

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:17 PM

Hi all,
Finding this topic interesting, thanks for all the advice regarding connection of the speakers with L6 link. I wondered if anyone might be able to give me some advice with a question I have been considering?

Our group comprises of three singers singing mainly to backing tracks. We have the M20d, 1x l3t and 1xl3m for mains and I have 1x l2t and 1x l2m arriving tomorrow for the monitors. Being the paranoid sort of person that I am, I want to have a backup scenario in place IF the mixer were to ever fail. The inclusion of the 't's' in the speaker line up was originally to give us some flexibility for very small gigs. I am thinking now though that I might be able to still run the gig using the inputs on the l3t and l2t.

As the L2t is going to be in a monitor position is it still feasible to use one of the channels on its mixer and to get that sound out of the main? Perhaps there is a better way of doing it. If I can just feel confident that I've got a workable solution then I won't need to cart around a backup mixer which would be great!
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#17 RonMarton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

...If I can just feel confident that I've got a workable solution then I won't need to cart around a backup mixer which would be great!

 

You can and you won't.

 

Check this out:

 

file_r15788.jpeg


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#18 litesnsirens

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

Ron is right, the only thing the L2t being in monitor mode will affect is how that speaker is going to sound.  If the speakers are all linked together with Line 6 link correctly you will have a 4 channel mixer with effects and still two sets of stereo inputs for your backing tracks you should be good.  The time to figure out the wiring for your back up plan is obviously before you need to use it.


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#19 RonMarton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

...The time to figure out... your back-up plan is obviously before you need to use it.   [Ron M's emphasis.]

 

There's many years of accumulated experience encapsulated in that sage advice, folks !

 

Don't take our word for it.

 

Ask anyone in The Pentagon about "back-up plans"...

 

...er, ...aah, ...um... 

 

...and step well back.  :lol:


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#20 nickinfrance

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:18 AM

Thanks guys, appreciate it. The L2's arrive this morning so I will have a play!
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