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Creating Models From Scratch

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#21 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:25 AM

You guys have no idea how complex these models are or how many man hours went into the Variax design.  They made many very complex measurements to capture the data needed to model these guitars.  Good luck trying to replicate that!  Workbench gives you lots of options to tweak the models.  Use them!  It's ok to suggest new models but don't expect that to happen either.


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#22 sudiptasingh

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:41 AM

Just to clear up some points:

(a) I am not an advocate of hacking or reverse engineering - that always creates problems and issues (not supported, hacks break on new versions etc.) let alone the fact that it is extremely painful.
 

(B) I am advocating an API based approach - a set of class libraries and documentation, that outline the L6 HD architecture and API, and points at which programmers can access/leverage/add/extend functionality in a way that is supported by the L6 development team.
 

© This API is NOT for the Workbench User. This is for developers that are interested in extending the capabilities of (for example) Workbench (new Models, new Components etc.) and the core firmware. The majority of users should not know or care about how all this goodness is created - they should just be able to add them into Workbench, load them onto their Variax, Fire them up and Rock on!!

 

I hate to keep using the MS FlightSimulator analogy (because it is not exactly apropos) - but the base product ships with only X number of planes, airports, and scenery, but the developers have made available their tools, the API and the architecture of the product so that talented developers can develop for e.g. a full 737 simulation (a/c and systems), create custom sceneries/airports, add their own objects to the airport libraries (fuel trucks, runway markings, gauges etc.) This community continues to innovate even when the original product is no longer being developed....

 

If not - so be it - no worries!.... just pointing out some possibilities...


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#23 silverhead

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:52 AM

@sudiptasingh:  ... and what's in it for Line 6? .... Remember, they're in business to make a profit. How does this generate revenue for them?


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
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#24 sudiptasingh

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

@sudiptasingh:  ... and what's in it for Line 6? .... Remember, they're in business to make a profit. How does this generate revenue for them?

1. More people innovating on their platform = more features on it = better competitive positioning = more sales

2. Revenue can also be indirectly linked to brand awareness and buzz... = more community - more buzz

3. Shortened beta product cycles (more testers) = quicker time to market = revenue impact

4. Increased customer satisfaction = ... more repeat business? More referrals? ...

5. Better product quality???? Architecture improvements etc. from many minds looking at the software...

 

Think Android vs. Nokia..... :-)


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#25 silverhead

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:11 AM

The key factor here is the size of the participating audience. Android is a very general app platform, with the potential for many millions of users worldwide and virtually unlimited scope for applications. I don't think anyone buys Android for a single app.

 

Are there really that many guitar players who find the existing capabilities of JTV and Workbench sufficiently limiting that they would invest time and effort in this? Obviously you would. I wonder how many others like you there are?


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
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#26 phil_m

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:53 AM

I think I'd sooner expect monkeys to fly out my butt than I'd expect Line 6 to go down an open source road. In other words, it ain't gonna happen...


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Time is a train
Makes the future the past
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Your face pressed up against the glass

 


#27 TheRealZap

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

big fat smelly monkeys.

monkey-flying-small.gif

I think I'd sooner expect monkeys to fly out my butt than I'd expect Line 6 to go down an open source road. In other words, it ain't gonna happen...


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#28 sudiptasingh

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:20 AM

Love the monkey - but API based - not Open Source.... and developers not guitar players... all right - nuff said.


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#29 daedae

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:55 PM

The key factor here is the size of the participating audience. Android is a very general app platform, with the potential for many millions of users worldwide and virtually unlimited scope for applications. I don't think anyone buys Android for a single app.

 

Are there really that many guitar players who find the existing capabilities of JTV and Workbench sufficiently limiting that they would invest time and effort in this? Obviously you would. I wonder how many others like you there are?

It's interesting that I came across this thread today because I was just thinking about the same thing recently -- wondering if anybody had tried to reverse engineer the firmware.  As a developer (but not with any real experience in the embedded systems world), I would find it interesting, but of course all of the issues with the math of physical modeling that have been pointed out would be a major limiting factor.  And so I guess that's the real issue for a version with Line6's support: while it's true that it could expand the technology base and show some customer goodwill, the amount of time and money it would take to develop and test a usable API and make it sufficiently resilient against bricking would probably be better spent with them just internally creating models.  (They probably have an API for internal use, but "internal, domain expert API" is likely to be significantly different from "external, general user API.")


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#30 alsithi

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:57 PM

I would have thought ultimately the quality of the tone is largely down to the skill and imagination of the guitarist?


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#31 TheRealZap

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 01:11 PM

Crap! i'm screwed :D

 

I would have thought ultimately the quality of the tone is largely down to the skill and imagination of the guitarist?


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#32 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

Me Too! :)


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#33 clay-man

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:51 PM

I still think making your own guitar from scratch on the Variax is ridiculous no matter how you spin it.

You do not have the same tools as Line 6 to create pickup and body convolutions/algorithms correctly.

 

Like I said, maybe adding a bit more depth in what you can edit would be alright, but that depends if the current coding will allow that without having to rewrite everything again.

 

I say just add more bodies and pickups. That's honestly all we really need. SG, Jaguar, Jazzmaster, stuff like that.

It all depends on how much memory is left on the JTV to be used though.


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For a minute there, I lost myself.

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#34 ozbadman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

I still think making your own guitar from scratch on the Variax is ridiculous no matter how you spin it.

You do not have the same tools as Line 6 to create pickup and body convolutions/algorithms correctly.

 

Like I said, maybe adding a bit more depth in what you can edit would be alright, but that depends if the current coding will allow that without having to rewrite everything again.

 

I say just add more bodies and pickups. That's honestly all we really need. SG, Jaguar, Jazzmaster, stuff like that.

It all depends on how much memory is left on the JTV to be used though.

 

amen


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