Don't know what went wrong but I'll start over

[357mag]

I downloaded a good sounding Rhoads preset from Custom Tone and modified it a bit and saved it. But this afternoon when I went to play there was no sound on my bridge pickup. I played a few chords and the sound appeared really intermittent and cut off. I tried the neck pickup and it appeared okay.

 

I removed the hard gate and the problem vanished. So I'm just clueless on how to set that thing. I like the quietness of it but it's simply too complicated to set up.

 

I think I had my open threshold set all wrong though. It was getting close to the halfway mark, which is like about 80 percent or so and I suspect that because the setting was all wrong it wasn't letting any sound through.

 

I'm gonna do it over and start fresh...

 

How do I set the open threshold? About 60 percent? 

[BBD_123]

[Edits for clarity in square brackets:]

 

Where is the Hard Gate in your chain? It should be first.

 

Setting the Open threshold is easy enough. It should ignore slight and inadvertent sounds and open only when you play intentionally. Just touch the strings lightly with your fingertips to make 'unintentional' noise. Turn the Open setting [sensitivity] up until this gets through to the signal chain. Now, turn the Open setting [sensitivity] *down* incrementally until you find the cutoff point where unintentional noise (including buzz and hum) do not cause the Open gate to open. That's the sweet spot.

 

[Edit:] Likely you've already seen it, but just in case, there's a Line 6 tutorial for the Crazy Train tone here.

 

[Edit:] hurghanico is right: MeAmBobbo's explanation is excellent - it's what I had in mind.

[357mag]

Logic and functioning...Problem is it's still mumbo jumbo. Words. Jargon. Buzzwords. This is what I don't like. Someone needs to make a video not using these words. Just something that is easier to understand for those that don't like jargon.

 

Of course, this happens in every profession.

[BBD_123]

Logic and functioning...Problem is it's still mumbo jumbo. Words. Jargon. Buzzwords. This is what I don't like. Someone needs to make a video not using these words. Just something that is easier to understand for those that don't like jargon.

 

Of course, this happens in every profession.

 

What hurganico said, again, but...

 

Open gate: when the mouse is loud enough, it gets let in.

 

Close gate: when the mouse is quiet enough, it gets zapped out of existence.

[cruisinon2]

Logic and functioning...Problem is it's still mumbo jumbo. Words. Jargon. Buzzwords. This is what I don't like. Someone needs to make a video not using these words. Just something that is easier to understand for those that don't like jargon.

 

Of course, this happens in every profession.

Well if you don't like things described in words, that basically leaves smoke signals, mime, and interpretive dance. That might make for an interesting video, but not terribly helpful in terms of conveying actual information...;)

[357mag]

[Edits for clarity in square brackets:]

 

Where is the Hard Gate in your chain? It should be first.

 

Setting the Open threshold is easy enough. It should ignore slight and inadvertent sounds and open only when you play intentionally. Just touch the strings lightly with your fingertips to make 'unintentional' noise. Turn the Open setting [sensitivity] up until this gets through to the signal chain. Now, turn the Open setting [sensitivity] *down* incrementally until you find the cutoff point where unintentional noise (including buzz and hum) do not cause the Open gate to open. That's the sweet spot.

 

[Edit:] Likely you've already seen it, but just in case, there's a Line 6 tutorial for the Crazy Train tone here.

 

[Edit:] hurghanico is right: MeAmBobbo's explanation is excellent - it's what I had in mind.

 

Did you mean to say set the Open then the Close? Why monkey with the same exact dial twice? Wouldn't I adjust the Open dial first and then adjust the Close dial after?

 

 

[357mag]

IMO "meambobbo" (kudos to him) in his guide sums up very well the hard gate fx logic and functioning, it should be added in the official guide..

link here: Noise Gate vs. Hard Gate

 

copied and pasted below here for your convenience only the part concerning your question

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Open/Close Thresholds

 

The Hard Gate has two threshold levels - open and close. If the gate is currently open, it is only looking at the Close Threshold value to determine if it should close. If the gate is closed, it is only looking at Open Threshold to determine if it should open. This helps in two ways.

 

Single threshold gates are subject to jitter - consider a sustained note that is gradually decreasing in volume. The level you hear might be 96, 95, 95, 95, 95, 95, 94 db at 1/20th of a second intervals. The level the gate detects might be a little different, let's say 96, 95, 94, 95, 94, 95, 94. If the Threshold was set to 94.5 db, the gate would open and close rapidly as a decaying note hit the threshold value. It would sound like sputtering, which is very noticeable and undesirable.

 

With separate Open and Close Thresholds, you can set them a few db's apart, and the imprecision in the effect's signal level detection will not cause a sputtering gate.

 

This also comes in handy due to guitar naturally having a strong attack. Setting the Open Threshold high means when the gate is closed, you won't accidentally open it with soft noises you make when you're not trying to play a note, such as your fingers rubbing on unfretted strings. Yet, once you do purposefully play a note, the attack is strong enough to open the gate. Setting a single threshold gate to such a high threshold would mean that sustained decaying notes would get "cut off" rather than naturally fading to silence. With a low Close Threshold setting, however, you can let the note decay to almost silence before the gate closes.

 

Another problem here...

 

Setting the Open high? What does that mean in actual practice?

 

What does high mean? Does setting the Open dial high mean you turn in to the right (clockwise)? Or does it mean you turn it to the left?

 

This is my complaint about all this stuff? It's ambiguous. I can follow setting the Open high if I know what high means as it pertains to the Open dial. Since I don't know this important piece of information, it doesn't help. 

[357mag]

And when I play a note my note does not sound natural. It sounds like it's too abrupt. Like maybe the note is not coming through the gate naturally. Like maybe something is being or a part of the note is getting chopped off.

 

What am I setting wrong?

[BBD_123]

 

 

Did you mean to say set the Open then the Close? Why monkey with the same exact dial twice? Wouldn't I adjust the Open dial first and then adjust the Close dial after?

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for not being clear. I was  trying to say that you may need to compromise between signal and line noise when setting the Open gate threshold.

[357mag]

yes, Open Threshold high means you turn it toward the right (clockwise), set it just a bit more than the Close Threshold value..

 

set the Close Threshold value like you would do with the single Threshold of the standard noise gate

 

Thank You. That is the clarity that is needed. I have it sounding better now.

[BBD_123]

As I said:

 

Open gate: when the mouse is loud enough, it gets let in.

 

Close gate: when the mouse is quiet enough, it gets zapped out of existence.

 

-/+ dB scales are or should be self-explanatory.

[JTSC777]

if you need massive noise gating you are not setting your gain structure correctly.

Randy Rhoads did not play with massive over clipping saturated crappy tone. He played wirh very little distortion.

 

Listen to Tony Iommi on the Heaven and Hell at Radio City Music Hall recordings for a real heavy guutar tone reference.

 

Nouse Gates suck and should be avoided