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The Sound Is Different When I Record Via Usb

hd500 pod record usb

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#1 vilo1968

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:13 AM

Hello.

 

I have a little problem with my POD HD500.

 

I notice that the sound of the preset, when I hear it on the speakers, it sounds one way, and when I record via USB sounds a little less quality. There is a small difference.

 

Someone has been the same? Can be resolved?

 

I have the latest drivers installed and the last firmware.

 

Thank you very much from already.


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#2 GTLazer

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

What's your signal chain?


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#3 vilo1968

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:00 AM

GTLazer:

 

My signal chain "physical" is: guitar - pod hd500 - PC (usb).

 

Thank you very much from already.

 

(excuse my poor English)


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#4 silverhead

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:03 AM

Which signal from the HD500 are you recording: the L channel, R channel, or stereo?


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#5 vilo1968

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:16 AM

When I record via USB with the pod hd500, I do in MONO


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#6 silverhead

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:44 AM

Check your DAW setup, as well as the HD500 mixer panning. It's possible you are recording only half of the HD500 output signal.


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#7 vilo1968

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:03 AM

I use Samplitude and configure the channel as "mono mix". I tested with Reaper and the result was the same.There is little difference in quality between what I hear through my monitors and I record via USB. Not big but noticeable difference.


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#8 vilo1968

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 07:12 AM

Hello everyone!I was doing some testing on this and I have managed to identify the problem. This is the famous "fizz"'s so much talk in the forum.

 

To better explain what I'm experiencing, two files attached mp3.The file "fizz.mp3" corresponds to a recording made ​​using the POD HD500 as a USB audio interface, with the guitar connected to the POD. In this file you can hear the fizz perfectly.The second file ("no-fizz.mp3") corresponds to a recording in which the POD was used to clean reamplified 2 guitars. In this file there is no fizz.

 

Something happens when the guitar is connected directly to the POD.

 

The pickups in my guitar are at normal height (are Bill Lawrence XL500).

 

The Pod is configured with the entry "GUITAR" and the second entry as "Variax", which according to the forum, allowing less noise and Fizz.Recording levels do not saturate, and the application "Line 6 Midi-Audio Devices" level is set to-3dB.

 

The firmware and driver are the latest.

 

I also reflashed, resetting to factory parameters and no change.

 

Thank you very much from now.

 

Attached File  fizz.mp3   481.22KB   73 downloads

 

Attached File  no-fizz.mp3   481.22KB   59 downloads


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#9 silverhead

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 07:50 AM

I really can't hear any difference. All really hi-gain stuff sounds fizzy to me. Maybe just my ears/age?


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#10 MartinDorr

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:32 AM

I hear different sounds and yes, the fizz one has more fizz ;-)
Not clear to me how your HD input ignal is generated and what the interface setting is for the path that does not 'fizz'. Can you explain?
What is the recoding level you see in your DAW for both recordings (w/o DAW adjustments)?
If you trun off your amp model (bypass volume 100%) and all following effects, what is the recording level of those signals for both cases?

I can't tell, but there may be some distortion going on in the fizz generating model chain and it might be worth checking what each modelling step does as it gets added starting with nothing (i.e., just the input signal level) for both cases.
Use your DAW meter and check peaks. Anything above -12dB may compress, anything above -6dB may cause some unwanted distortion, and above -3dB thing usually get nasty.
Make sure to add models 1 by 1 from input to output as a later model may hide that your signal level hit the ceiling in between.
Good luck.
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#11 vilo1968

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for your answers.

 

For the recording of "non-fizz.mp3", first recorded two guitar tracks connected to my Presonus AudioBox VSL, without any effect.Subsequently, these tracks were reamplified with the POD HD500.Apparently, the optimal level of signal (low?) Applied to the POD achievement does not appear the fizz.

 

Then to "fizz.mp3", recorded two guitar tracks, connected to the Pod and using the same preset. Now appears the fizz.

 

In the DAW, everything is around-12dB.

 

I attach a screenshot of the preset.

 

Thank you very much from now.

 

Attached File  cap1.jpg   210.9KB   8 downloads

Attached File  cap2.jpg   162.78KB   6 downloads

Attached File  cap3.jpg   189.83KB   3 downloads


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#12 MartinDorr

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:55 PM

I can't be sure but I would be surprised if your Treadplate at 75% Drive and 100% Channel Volume is not pushing you higher than -12dBFS between the Amp output and the Mixer. Turning the Mixer down by -7dB would not save you. The damage may already be done. Also, not sure what the Screamer does to your Amp input.

If you want to make sure that your gain staging is reasonable (less than -12dB between blocks) you need to turn everything off and see what every block adds to your signal level. This will also tell you how different the 2 types of input signals are and probably be a first check point for why one of them generates 'fizz' that other does not.

If you want more than -12dB as output, put the Mixer at the end and add a clean boost of up to 12dB. Recommend to stay away from signal levels higher than -12dB between blocks if you want no artifical compression/distortion produced by the models. I certainly have not checked all of them, but everyone I measure showed this behavior except the mixer.
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#13 vilo1968

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:14 PM

I understand what you say about this preset, but when the pod re-amplifies a clean signal, it works ok. Produce fizz when you connect the guitar to the POD.

 

The preset is the same as this but modified.

 

You can see it in action here: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=6M-We-yw7hw


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#14 MaxZavtur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:15 AM

I understand what you say about this preset, but when the pod re-amplifies a clean signal, it works ok. Produce fizz when you connect the guitar to the POD.

 

The preset is the same as this but modified.

 

You can see it in action here: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=6M-We-yw7hw

So what is solution for that fizz?


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#15 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:11 AM

Lower "Input Z" setting is the solution for FIZZ.

 

 

It seems to me that the issue is the difference between a track recorded with

1-guitar > audio interface other than POD >Pod input reamplified >recorded using POD USB    verses

2-Guitar>....................>Pod Input                   >Recorded using USB

 

This to me indicates that in case/track 1: Using an audio interface to record a direct signal then sending it to the pod isn't sending an identical signal as in track 2. Using the other audio interface is exposing the file to an additional AD/DA conversion which will almost always result in losing a little bit of high frequency. When Re amplifiying this track less fizz will appear due to the high frequency loss from the additional AD/DA conversion.

 

Solution:  there are several options to mitigate undesirable fizz.  My favorite is using the POD HD own input Z option. Using lower values instead of auto will do the trick looking at the patches in this thread we see that, as it should be , the noise gate is first in the signal chain which is optimal for most situations, but this creates a problem for the input Z set to "Auto". The input Z setting of auto is following the first effect in the signal chain which is the noise gate so no change is happening as the noise gate has the same input-Z setting for amp without effects.  I would use the input Z setting for the tube screamer which is 250K and this will reduce so much of the undesirable high frequencies responsible for most undesirable fizz (There's desirable fizz also and we want to keep that). You can use other values to get the optimal sound and the Input Z setting will make a night and day  difference from my experience in many patches where using auto will render the patch otherwise unusable.

 

Another option would be to put an external physical compressor in front of the pod and that will remove some high frequencies from the guitar signal...


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#16 MaxZavtur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

Lower "Input Z" setting is the solution for FIZZ.

 

 

It seems to me that the issue is the difference between a track recorded with

1-guitar > audio interface other than POD >Pod input reamplified >recorded using POD USB    verses

2-Guitar>....................>Pod Input                   >Recorded using USB

 

This to me indicates that in case/track 1: Using an audio interface to record a direct signal then sending it to the pod isn't sending an identical signal as in track 2. Using the other audio interface is exposing the file to an additional AD/DA conversion which will almost always result in losing a little bit of high frequency. When Re amplifiying this track less fizz will appear due to the high frequency loss from the additional AD/DA conversion.

 

Solution:  there are several options to mitigate undesirable fizz.  My favorite is using the POD HD own input Z option. Using lower values instead of auto will do the trick looking at the patches in this thread we see that, as it should be , the noise gate is first in the signal chain which is optimal for most situations, but this creates a problem for the input Z set to "Auto". The input Z setting of auto is following the first effect in the signal chain which is the noise gate so no change is happening as the noise gate has the same input-Z setting for amp without effects.  I would use the input Z setting for the tube screamer which is 250K and this will reduce so much of the undesirable high frequencies responsible for most undesirable fizz (There's desirable fizz also and we want to keep that). You can use other values to get the optimal sound and the Input Z setting will make a night and day  difference from my experience in many patches where using auto will render the patch otherwise unusable.

 

Another option would be to put an external physical compressor in front of the pod and that will remove some high frequencies from the guitar signal...

What is input Z? I dont ge it


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#17 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

What is input Z? I dont ge it

It's a parameter that you can change in any of the patches. In the HD Edit window using the PC or Mac editor, in the left panel you will see  setting for input 1 source, input 2 source, guitar in-.Z and input set up (can be set to global so you don't change it per patch)

This is really a great feature and it involves having the hardware that's already part of the HD 500  but not in the HD300 or 400.

 

In summary older fuzz peda, corus etcl and effects have a very low impedance level which means if you plugged your guitar into a big muff or fuzz face , due to these effects having low impedance, your guitar pickups are  "loaded" which means the equivalent or something similar to having a tone control on your guitar with low impedance (250k popular with fenders and 500k with lesspaul type guitars). So alot of high frequencies are rolled off, so the guitar will sound warmer or darker.

POD HD simulate this  and it has the hardware on board. So in your POD HD signal chain you have a tube screamer, the real world tube screamer that line 6 modeled had a 250k impedance. To get this effect you can manually choose input z to to 250k. Now your guitar pickups are loaded and high frequencies are rolled off.  If this ini-z setting is set to auto, POD HD will only change based on the first effect in the signal chain. This setting is not ideal since most people put the noise gate first (which if you look up in the manual) has an impedance of 1 mg same as amp without effects. 

 

Hope this helps clarify..


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#18 MaxZavtur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

What is input Z? I dont ge it

 

Lower "Input Z" setting is the solution for FIZZ.

 

 

It seems to me that the issue is the difference between a track recorded with

1-guitar > audio interface other than POD >Pod input reamplified >recorded using POD USB    verses

2-Guitar>....................>Pod Input                   >Recorded using USB

 

This to me indicates that in case/track 1: Using an audio interface to record a direct signal then sending it to the pod isn't sending an identical signal as in track 2. Using the other audio interface is exposing the file to an additional AD/DA conversion which will almost always result in losing a little bit of high frequency. When Re amplifiying this track less fizz will appear due to the high frequency loss from the additional AD/DA conversion.

 

Solution:  there are several options to mitigate undesirable fizz.  My favorite is using the POD HD own input Z option. Using lower values instead of auto will do the trick looking at the patches in this thread we see that, as it should be , the noise gate is first in the signal chain which is optimal for most situations, but this creates a problem for the input Z set to "Auto". The input Z setting of auto is following the first effect in the signal chain which is the noise gate so no change is happening as the noise gate has the same input-Z setting for amp without effects.  I would use the input Z setting for the tube screamer which is 250K and this will reduce so much of the undesirable high frequencies responsible for most undesirable fizz (There's desirable fizz also and we want to keep that). You can use other values to get the optimal sound and the Input Z setting will make a night and day  difference from my experience in many patches where using auto will render the patch otherwise unusable.

 

Another option would be to put an external physical compressor in front of the pod and that will remove some high frequencies from the guitar signal...

Oh, i get it. It is really worked well. I put 22K, is it to small? how much i need to put?


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#19 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 08:31 PM

Oh, i get it. It is really worked well. I put 22K, is it to small? how much i need to put?

They say the Fuzz face is 22k , if it sounds and feels good then it's good. Many of the old treble boosters had 22 to 32k and that's basically most of the early classic metal sound, sabbath, deep purple , qeen etc. You can hit the amp with the midfocus eq by maxing the level of the Mid focus EQ , setting the low pass at 50 percent and the high pass at 100% into a Plexi 100 with drive at max, and you have Sabbath Paranoid album sound in an instance.


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#20 MaxZavtur

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:15 PM

They say the Fuzz face is 22k , if it sounds and feels good then it's good. Many of the old treble boosters had 22 to 32k and that's basically most of the early classic metal sound, sabbath, deep purple , qeen etc. You can hit the amp with the midfocus eq by maxing the level of the Mid focus EQ , setting the low pass at 50 percent and the high pass at 100% into a Plexi 100 with drive at max, and you have Sabbath Paranoid album sound in an instance.

But i generally play modern metal, and i noticed difference in sound when  i switched to lower input Z. I need to find optimal one. Before that i played with 1M and it was fizzy on recording. But you know what, sound is not fizzy if i play live with speakers ( even with 1M input Z), it is fizzy only when i record.


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